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On "safety"

post #1 of 19
Thread Starter 

Ran across this and thought it was an interesting perspective from a renowned Olympic competitor.

 

Quote:
 When I started riding, World War 2 had only been over about 5 or 6 years, and I`ve wondered since whether the general tolerance for risk in 1950s America that seemed so different then, from now, was because so many of the adults were veterans who`d seen and been through so much that kids riding a pony seemed totally benign?

No way of knowing, for sure, but many of the adults I knew had fought in the war. Mr XXXX, our XXXX, NH next door neighbor, had a bullet in his arm, and Mr XXX had bomb splinters that sometimes came out of his back---I remember those very vividly.

 

A very famous horseman in the UK had very similar thoughts about the dangers of 3 day eventing and the changing attitude towards risk.

 

And how does that all mesh with the current craze for "risk" sports/skiing and activities that seems to fly in the face of the new safety doctrine? 

post #2 of 19
Yes, risk tolerance and awareness is far higher now than 50 years ago. No doubt about it. I'm sure World War II had a big influence on people's thoughts and behaviors. Skiing down double diamond slopes is a nice walk in a park compared to marching forward in a war field with bullets whizzing by.
post #3 of 19

Certainly nothing comes even remotely close to the "risk" of war, but I would like to see a statistical comparison between equestrian sports and snow sports.  My wife's a "horser", I'm a skier - we both tread lightly around the dangers of the other's chosen risky hobby. 

post #4 of 19

Risk is relative to the observer.

post #5 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGolfAnalogy View Post
 

Risk is relative to the observer.

Perceived risk is relative to the viewer.

Actual risk results from the situation.

post #6 of 19
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dakine View Post
 

Perceived risk is relative to the viewer.

Actual risk results from the situation.

 

Excellent observation and one that sometimes few really consider perhaps because of their limited knowledge of certain sports.

 

And it's funny how some view the two. Many sports high perceived risk really aren't [when practiced at certain levels]. Many activities that many think aren't risky are very high risk.

 

Take rock climbing, as a novice seconding you're essentially top roped and the danger of injury from a fall is very small. Driving down the road while drinking coffee and talking on the phone with a 100 mph closing speed to approaching traffic a few feet away, wow.

 

Many people that don't give a second though to the driving scenario wouldn't be caught dead rocking climbing.

 

 

I also think it's how one relates to the risk personally, people that dwell on danger seem to have a higher propensity [in my experience] to be involved in accidents.  The approach that has served me very well has been to access the risk but then focus on a successful approach. 

post #7 of 19
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Lutes View Post
 

Certainly nothing comes even remotely close to the "risk" of war, but I would like to see a statistical comparison between equestrian sports and snow sports.  My wife's a "horser", I'm a skier - we both tread lightly around the dangers of the other's chosen risky hobby. 

We have horses and ski. IMO equine activities are far more dangerous than skiing.  By in large [other skiers and avalanches aside] you totally control thing when you ski. Horses on the other hand, nothing like a 1200 Lb. animal that can freak out at the sight of a small grey rock……..

post #8 of 19

People that worry about terrorists drive me crazy.

Actual risk from terrorism is so low that it isn't worth thinking about when driving on an Interstate.

The incremental risk added to your very significant risk from an accident is nearly zero.

Yet, we have allowed our government to turn the country into a total surveillance police state because of this perceived risk.

People really don't understand actual risk mostly thanks to sensationalized news.

Resist the Mommy State!

End of Rant!

 

Talking about risk without considering probabilities is a bad discussion.

post #9 of 19

Sometimes considering risk actually makes it a more of a probability. Call it tempting fate, or karma, or the power of negative thinking. Fear itself can prevent peak performance and become self prophesying. Those who jump without looking at least do it with confidence.

post #10 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by dakine View Post
 

Yet, we have allowed our government to turn the country into a total surveillance police state because of this perceived risk.

People really don't understand actual risk mostly thanks to sensationalized news.

 

 

You're calling the country a total surveillance police state and it's the news that's sensationalized??

post #11 of 19
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGolfAnalogy View Post
 

Sometimes considering risk actually makes it a more of a probability. Call it tempting fate, or karma, or the power of negative thinking. Fear itself can prevent peak performance and become self prophesying. Those who jump without looking at least do it with confidence.

 

I guess I disagree. I think all people that are skilled in risk sports are also skilled at risk management, few 'look before leaping'. It's dwelling on the danger that seems to lead many people to realize their fears. Focusing on the danger with a "I have to be careful, I don't want to get in trouble/hurt/die leads you there seemingly much of the time.

 

 Focusing of the correct process leads to the successful outcome.

post #12 of 19

Old Zen saying

"The unaimed arrow never misses."

post #13 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Griswald View Post
 

 

I guess I disagree. I think all people that are skilled in risk sports are also skilled at risk management, few 'look before leaping'. It's dwelling on the danger that seems to lead many people to realize their fears. Focusing on the danger with a "I have to be careful, I don't want to get in trouble/hurt/die leads you there seemingly much of the time.

 

 Focusing of the correct process leads to the successful outcome.

I guess I disagree that we are disagreeing. We seem to be agreeing, but you will probably just phrase it a slightly different way and claim it to be your own.

post #14 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Griswald View Post

And how does that all mesh with the current craze for "risk" sports/skiing and activities that seems to fly in the face of the new safety doctrine? 
I'd say for most people some kind of risk wakes you up, makes you feel alive. Most of us don't get that primal feeling of taking and surviving risk in everyday life, so we need to either root for someone who does, whether it's a linebacker or a free climber or an extreme skier, or engage in some kind of risky behavior ourselves.
post #15 of 19
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGolfAnalogy View Post
 

I guess I disagree that we are disagreeing. We seem to be agreeing, but you will probably just phrase it a slightly different way and claim it to be your own.

Well, if we're agreeing then I don't disagree. Perhaps I misunderstood your post and I wouldn't want to be disagreeable. It's not safe.

post #16 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Griswald View Post
 

We have horses and ski. IMO equine activities are far more dangerous than skiing.  By in large [other skiers and avalanches aside] you totally control thing when you ski. Horses on the other hand, nothing like a 1200 Lb. animal that can freak out at the sight of a small grey rock……..

 

I would tend to agree, being a skier and all, but to be fair we really do need to see some reliable statistics.   Both my wife and I have had major accidents, but mine was much worse. so there you have it - both are dangerous but skiing's the worst! ;) Another set of statistics I'd like to see is the skiers hit by avalanches (fatal and non-fatal) vs the total number of BC skiers (resort hits kind of muddy the statistical waters). There's a lot of discussion where it is assumed that the skier/boarder/'biler chose to ignore the warning signs, even those with exceptional skills, which of course is usually unsubstantiated.  This would seem to be an exception to your saying that the better the skills, the better the risk management. 

post #17 of 19
Thread Starter 

I think people that have been involved in a truly high risk sport for some time [and likely acquired higher skills]usually are better at managing/recognizing risk than a novice in my experience. 

post #18 of 19

I'm going to quote myself from a previous thread as I think it applies in terms of risk assessment and I honestly can't think of a better way to put it.

 

 

I think that some of what you are writing about can be summed up with two terms "Crazy" and "Stupid".

 

"Crazy" knowing your limit and pushing a little bit beyond it to raise the bar.  Good example Bode Miller, nothing ventured nothing gained.  This applies to everyone, the only difference is where the bar is.

 

"Stupid" stepping well beyond the limit.  Example, a beginner thinking that they can ski the same run and trying the same thing as Bode Miller. No matter the outcome, this is just "Stupid" as the concept of risk vs ability did not come into question.

 

Having young kids I always ask them the question is it "Crazy" or is it "Stupid"?  When phrased that way they seem to make the correct choice in the risk/ability department.

 

I have modified to reflect the current hero in skiing,  below is the original.

 

http://www.epicski.com/t/120477/high-din-binding-question/30#post_1591177

post #19 of 19
Thread Starter 

To my original post here, I found this online about kids learning to ride a bike without training wheels.

 

 

Quote:

 …..With my 3, I dressed them with elbow pads, knee pads, gloves, helmets (of course), I think my youngest daughter put on her hockey chest protector/shoulder pads. 

 

 

Wow.

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