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2004 Academy--Potential Students Poll - Page 2

post #31 of 57
Originally posted by Lucky:
I am absolutely amazed that "what coaches will be there" had only a 22% response. That IS the reason I would go if I wanted to improve my skiing. If it's just a social event then it wouldn't make much difference.
Actually, that is important too, but for me questions like Cost and scheduled date are more important. I am a single home owner and a middle school teacher, both of the things I mentioned above are, by necessity, first concerns.
post #32 of 57
I responded but, many instructors and coaches find the academy during "prime time", a darned near impossibility.

This time is when you are needed at the hill .... and .... you are trying to jockey a Jr. race schedule.

Not to mention the mandatory clinic for PSIA.

I just don't want to appear "negative" about the events, but JEEEEEZ .... where does the time go?
post #33 of 57
Ok, the voice of reason, here. Its already common knowledge that the ski areas last year did not jump for joy at the prospect of hosting the Academy. We were able to convince them to do it by having it at a time when the area would not be getting that many skiers.
During the holidays, the ski areas are packed, and this is the time that the ski schools are trying to make their money. I highly doubt anyone would be amicable to having us on a holiday week.
post #34 of 57
Lisa, that is most reasonable. It's almost axiomatic that the Academy will be allowed "on the premises" when it best suits the ski area where it's held: When no one else is there, when we ARE the business that's available to them. That's just a fact of life.

At Brighton, that worked out beautifully. There were times when nolo took us to a part of the mountain where it seemed we were the only ones there!

Lisamarie made another point worth emphasizing (was it on this thread or another?), and that is: We are NOT part of the resort ski school, and so we have no line cutting privileges at the lift - we gotta wait in line like everyone else. That would be a disaster for the Academy during a high business period. At Brighton, even without such privileges, there was never anything really resembling a "lift line" - and that that was because we were there in a period of slow business.

Let's just accept this fact of life, which we can't change.
post #35 of 57
OK--we've now had 100 replies to the poll--THANKS! There were 30 people who attended the first EpicSki Academy in January. That leaves 4401 eligible Barking Bears who have not responded.

Come on gang--let us know what you think. Apathy never got anyone anywhere! Make your opinion count.

Best regards,
Bob Barnes
post #36 of 57
Regarding costs: there could be a 2-tier costs option, with the more expensive hotel option vs a budget thing, involving use of a hostel-type operation, if one was available, or renting a condo and filling it with people. I used to arrange internet get-togethers for skiiers, and we tended to do very well with the costs of accommodation by taking the filled-up condo option.
Some areas have very cheap hotels too, I know in SLC there are some extremely reasonably priced hotels with self-contained rooms; if people shared rooms, the costs come down a lot.
post #37 of 57
I agree with Lisa Marie- I didn't check the "quality of instructers" response because I assume that they are the best- all one has to do is read the posts from the last academy and know a couple of the people involved, and it is clear that is so.

Timing is the biggest issue for me. I lecture at 2 national symposia that are usually scheduled in late Feb., and I must attend these (one of them is always held at Vail, thankfully!!), and my schedule at work well have to work out as well. For this reaseon, the earlier that I know about dates and details, the easier it will be to plan. I suspect this may be the case for others too, so long lead times will be helpful.

I agree with much of what was said about cost. For many years, I was not able to go on a ski vacation at a distant resort because of the prohibitive cost for a young family. Thankfully I am now in a better financial position, although with tuitions I must still watch the budget very carefully. I do not think that it is reasonable to expect this to cost less than $1000, however, certainly not when you add in airfare and lodging. It is too bad that it will keep some people from attending, but how could you do it for less? Most of these costs are beyond the control of the organizers.

Will teenaged children be able to attend? My daughter will be away at school, but my son is in high school, and I know he would be interested.
post #38 of 57
DP, there has been some discussion regarding teens. The consensus seemed to be, that if there were enough teens at the same ski level to form a class, the idea would be taken into consideration.
The only issue is timing. Doing this during school holiday is not an option, because:

The resorts won't allow it

If they did, there would be no discount

Airfares higher, FFlyer tickets hard to get

No lift line privleges means spending your academy time waitiing

The top instructors not available during school holidays

A thought: is your medical practice ski related? If so, speak to Bob B. about doing an evening presentation. According to VSP, locations are being narrrowed down to a toss up betweenn Colorado and Utah.
post #39 of 57
dp, one couple last year said they planned to attend and put their children into the area ski school, completely separate from the Academy. They did not follow through on that - they did not come to the Academy - so we have no direct experience with it. However, considering that the Academy runs until the lifts close and then continues for the apres' ski presentations afterwards, it would have been somewhat complicated to work that.

Having considered the question of "under-the-age-of-majority" students for the first EpcSki Academy, I would again ask for some hard thinking on the question. The decision was made last year to keep the Academy all-adult for at least three reasons: First, we had no insurance. Second, a Colorado case says that parents do not have the legal capacity or authority effectively to sign waivers of their children's legal rights. Finally, the event would become substantially different with the addition of children. The complexity, experience and management of the Academy with children (even teen-agers) included would add to the many concerns we already have - and, in all candor, many wanted to have a "child free" experience. As the parent of two sons, I have enjoyed many ski trips and ski experiences with them, and I do love my children. Notwithstanding all that, it was delightful for me at the 2003 EpicSki Academy to be there in the presence of other adults, and ONLY other adults, unaccompanied either by my children or anyone elses.

[ April 27, 2003, 05:12 AM: Message edited by: oboe ]
post #40 of 57
Originally posted by Prosper:
I hate to break it to everyone, but even at the great discounted rates that ESA 1 enjoyed, if you extend that to a full 7 days of skiing and 8 nights of lodging, you are going to be well over $1000 ($35/nt for 8 nights=$280, $34 lift tics for 7 days=$238, ESA tuition=$375 I think it was, bargain basement airfare=$250, food $30/day for 8 days=$240, grand total so far $1383). I know the numbers are not totally accurate since the lodging is probably split in half b/c double occupancy but you get the picture.

Well said Prosper. I flew to SLC on points, yet the Academy plus 3 days of free skiing outside of the academy cost me about CDN $2600 (that is about USD $1700). I could have saved the cost of car rental (about USD $400), because there were many Bears with cars, but I like my independence. [img]smile.gif[/img]
post #41 of 57
You shouldn't include food costs.
post #42 of 57
We can't make everything available to everyone, but let's not belittle others who don't have the money to attend the Academy. Bear in mind that last year, a Bear from Missoula, Montana belittled someone who said she'd pass on a $22 dinner because she didn't have that kind of money - and then he himself told us he couldn't attend the Academy because, at least in part, he didn't have the money and only skied five times this season.
leave it alone, oboe. please. if you can't see the difference between a SINGLE $22 dinner and $750 to ski for a week...

frankly, I've had enough of your bitterness. I suppose you think you're "turning the tables" on me.
post #43 of 57
post #44 of 57

As someone who is new to this community (just this past weekend), I am amazed at some of the downright nasty and provocative posts that are left for all to see. :

I am all for being able to give an opinion and have a healthy debate, but really, can we take the pure slagging matches offline? :
post #45 of 57
Snomore: You are probably already on this, but just in case....
A bunch of my students recently registered to epicski with the sole purpose of attending the academy. I believe they have emailed you of their interest. Since they are occaisonal lurkers, as opoosed to regular posters, you may want to email them with a direct link to this thread.

Another interesting issue. I have some students, who have been skiing for about 30-40 years, and feel that their technique may be a bit dated. They are interested in the academy, but are not at all internet savy {no email, etc,}
Any suggestions?
post #46 of 57
Originally posted by TracyCK:
...I am amazed at some of the downright nasty and provocative posts that are left for all to see.

I am all for being able to give an opinion and have a healthy debate, but really, can we take the pure slagging matches offline?
I concur. Please play nice or I'm going to have to get more aggressive in here. Let's do it the easy way, NO INSULTS and please don't try to provoke others by harping on past negative issues that have been fully dealt with elsewhere. Thanks
post #47 of 57
I also agree with AC.

As private contractor now, I unfortunatly have less time to police these antics and I'm sure AC does not enjoy the same. I very much enjoy the good natured fun and learning here but spending time cleaning up complaint's about other people's behavior is not very enjoyable. Please play nice.

Think about what you are typing before hitting the post button.

post #48 of 57
By the way, TracyCK

Welcome aboard. Hope this doesn't scare you away. Most of the time it's much more enjoyable.
post #49 of 57
Hey, thanks dchan! [img]smile.gif[/img]

Not to worry - I spent the ENTIRE weekend reading discussions on the site, and found them both interesting and informative.

I realise that because a community board feels like 'home', it is sometimes easy to forget that there are tons of people out there reading our squabbling. :
post #50 of 57
Tracy, just so you know, people who you may think are reaady to strangle each other one moment, often end up being good buds later on. And everyone really likes each other when we meet in person.
post #51 of 57
Perhaps a bump to top will get us some more respondents.

Thanks to all who have responded to the poll. The information is of great assistance in planning the next event(s).
post #52 of 57
Thread Starter 
Hello, everyone, and a special thanks to those of you who didn’t vote and were willing to wait to see what the results of the poll have been so far.

In 10 days, we have had 114 respondents. No one has chimed in for a couple of days now, so it’s a good time to take a look. Set forth below are the percentages given in response to the various answers to the questions. Note that the questions are the questions phrased the way I really wanted to ask them, not the way that the format of the polling software drove me to state them. There is some food for thought there.

I would like to thank everyone for responding. Thanks to Physics Man for his unofficial and very interesting side poll. And thanks for the various comments and thoughts.

Now for the inevitable reminder. If reminder, if you want to be on the mailing list for the 2004 Academy Newsletter, PM me or email me at dwightcramer@msn.com. I’m planning to send a newsletter out in a week or so.

Okay, here are the questions and the percentage respondents:

Please pick one or two of the following factors as critical in your decision to attend an EpicSki Academy:
a.Location (ease of travel) 61
b.Cost (total expense of trip)69
c.What coaches will be there24
d.What other students will be there2
e.Terrain at the resort32
f.Ambiance of village/lodge at resort base3

Which of the following, if any, weighed in your decision NOT to
attend the 2003 EpicSki Academy (pick up to two):
c.Scheduled dates53
d.Wanted to see how the first one went18
e.Didn't sound like something I'd enjoy5
f.Nothing offered for family members5
g.Was unaware of the program22

Which of the following factors might keep you from attending a future EpicSki Academy:
j.Scheduled dates64
k.Concern about adequacy of my skill level to participate6
l.Doesn’t sound like something I'd enjoy4
m.Nothing offered for family members8

Given the following choices, how many days of Academy instruction would you prefer:

a.Three days44
b.Four days31
c.Five days22
d.Six days4

How interested would you be in the inclusion of special interest programs—such as a backcountry, telemark or racing offering—within the standard or general program:

a.Very important19
c.Interesting but not important34
d.Slight interest7
e.No interest8

Of the three possible programs listed above, select the one that would be of the MOST interest to you:
d.None of the above33

What is your reaction to a teaching approach in which each year’s Academy had a different central theme or curriculum (e.g., turns one year, balance the next, etc)?

a.Very interested6
e.Put off11

If you attend, are you most likely to attend:
a.By yourself55
b.With a spouse/partner/friend33
c.As part of a group of three or more11

If attending the Academy by yourself, would you be receptive to having a roommate in a hotel/motel setting or a bedroom in a shared condo in a resort complex setting:
a.Sure, make new friends41
b.Maybe, it would depend on the particulars36
c.Only if I could make arrangements . . .7
d.It would be a negative factor7
e.No way on earth9

How much do you typical spend on a five-day ski vacation (per person, and including all expenses—travel, lodging, meals, lift tickets, incidentals, except the cost of instruction, if any):
a.Between $500 and $100025
b.Between $1000 and $150031
c.Between $1500 and $200014
d.Between $2000 and $25004
e.Over $25004
f.Never taken such a trip.21

Thanks to everyone, again.
post #53 of 57

Thanks for posting the results! And thanks to all the organizers for getting right onto researching/planning ESAII!

Based on recent posting, it's no surprise Cost and Scheduled dates rank up there pretty high. Location ranks pretty high too - a matter of cost (travel, lodging, etc.) or reflection of undesirable locations to ski?

What would a Backcountry special interest program consist of? Please don't come back with "what do you want?" Never done it, don't know enough about it to have a wish list .... always interested in learning something new!

Originally posted by sno'more:

What is your reaction to a teaching approach in which each year’s Academy had a different central theme or curriculum (e.g., turns one year, balance the next, etc)?

I guess I'd have had to have responded as "confused" on this also. Could the coaches expand on what other 'themes' they would envision, and what the curriculums might play out as?

When are we going?

Thanks guys, keep up the great work!

post #54 of 57
In the poll, a question was phrased as follows:

How much money do you typically spend on a week long ski vacation?

But in the results, it is phrased as follows:

How much do you typical spend on a five-day ski vacation (per person, and including all expenses—travel, lodging, meals, lift tickets, incidentals, except the cost of instruction, if any)?

There is a very big difference between the answers to these two very different questions which probably distorted the results substantially.
post #55 of 57
posted by Chris: When are we going?
That's all I need to know. I want to mark my calendar!!!
post #56 of 57
Hey, check out the Summer Ski Camps topic in Instruction, about Summer Ski Camps. Bob Barnes has an "idea".
post #57 of 57
It has been alluded to before, and in all seriousness, I think we need to come up w/some dates. My husband and I are very interested, but timing is everything. We have a date to run w/the mouse on 1/11/04. Can the organizers firm up some dates so we can plan. For me this is always an issue, as I have to plan my vacation time 12 months in advance.

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