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Epicski Academy II - Page 7

post #181 of 211
Aspen and its 4 mountains varied terrain would be a great venue.
I think Snowmass would be a great base of operations for EA-II.

Just to thicken the plot, I'll also suggest Lake Tahoe.
Would be a great location for both gathering and EA-II.
The area has many of same offerings as Aspen:

Abundance of terrain variety for everyone.
History of great snow.
Abundance of lodging options.
Easilly accessable by reasonable airfair (Reno).

Heavenly could be a great base area to work first 3-days, with 4th as excursion day. (Kirkwood, Squaw, Alpine Meadows, etc).

But, I had so much fun I'd go anywhere; Canada, Tahoe, Idaho, Montana, Colorado, or even SLC again, just point me!

post #182 of 211
hey weems, that's intimidating to us non aspen girls, EEEKK!

I wrote this on thee survey, but I'll mention this here, too. What would be the feasibility of having the coaches arrive a day or two early and/or stay a day or two afterwards for privates? this would serve 2 purposess. You can get some continuity, by working with the coach you had the previous year, and/or you can "sample" someone you may like to work with in the futute. This can also work for people who don't want to take the whole academy.

Mark is on a cross country train trip. He will be skiing Whitefish in Montana. His lodging is actually cheaper than SLCs!
post #183 of 211
I have not read this entire forum so forgive me if this is repetitive. Before we left the inagural academy cgeib made an interesting comment.

He observed how having the event at a small resort created a fun dynamic to the academy. Occasionally different groups would meet on the same run. This added to the social climate of the academy and allowed friends or spouses in different groups to observe the the others progress and comment later at the evening gatherings. If the second academy were to be at a much larger resort this fun little dynamic would be lost as different groups would likely never converge on the same run.

My vote for Academy II is Summit County if the organizers can find a resort that is willing and fits the bill. :
post #184 of 211
Uh huh. This has been brought up on this thread. Vailsnopro also talked about this at the academy dinner. I think its a really important point. A few people came to the academy with their spouses, who were more proficient skiers. At certain points, usually by accident, but once on purpose, we would be on the same run. The more advanced group would ski it differently, but you got a sense that you can find ways to ski the same terrain.

Also, all the pros were fabulous! You got to sneak peeks at the other instructors. There were some practicality issues, too. Susieski had to do something to her boot, and had to leave her class. She caught up with our group and skied a few runs. This was great for us, because she helped Weems get us down the "crap track"!
post #185 of 211
Quote:
posted by weems:

and I've never been one to let reality get in my way.
I'll say it again....Weems rules!

It matters not where the thang is. I'm there. It's all white, it all slides.

I agree with cgieb's observation, that it was nice to bump into other groups. If you are going to the Academy or Gathering alone, that is a big plus....the opportunity to meet others more often, and see what other groups are learning, what their coaches are like, etc.

There are as many opinions on where to go as there are Bears inputting! I'd like to toss out an idea as we've had almost 200 posts on this already.

I would trust the instructors at this point to make the decision on where to have the Academy based on their willingness to travel, their knowledge of terrain, conditions and (new word)teachability at whichever mountain they choose.

I don't wish to offend anyone, but I'd rather have the Bears who will be coaching me to choose where I'll be learning than someone like myself that has limited exposure and knowledge. There are things we all can agree on:

inexpensive to lodge
accessibility to the resort
centrally located to as many Bears as possible

However, beyond that, it will eventually be determined by those who are going to be doing the coaching. I hope that it will attract the best in the biz next year, as it did this year.

Any thoughts on this?
post #186 of 211
Absolutely Bonni! I could not agree with you more! Not only do the instructors have the knowledge to choose what mountains have the best terrain for many student levels, they would also have an inside knowledge of what mountains would be willing to let us do this.
post #187 of 211
As an assistant coach, I'll voice my opinion. While Brighton was great (if we go to another resort for AII, then we should return to Brighton for AIII), I would like to suggest Steamboat (45 miles from home) or Copper Mountain (10 miles from Bob Barnes). Both have terrain that would challenge the upper class skiers. Both have good snow coverage by late January. Copper has on-hill lodging. Steamboat is just Steamboat and free buses to just about any place in town, including the mountain. Steamboat also has an airport that has non-stop flights that originate from Minneapolis, New York, Dallas, and a couple of other places that I can't remember. I'll look it up and get back.
post #188 of 211
As I promised, the other two are Danver, Chicago and Houston. this may change for next year, but not significantly. The airport is 22 miles from Steamboat.
post #189 of 211
THANKS, BONNI, FOR GIVING THE COACHES SUCH LEEWAY. I THINK WE'RE ALL FINE WITH GOING ANYWHERE. WE'LL ALL TAKE A LOOK AT PRICING/PACKAGING/CONVENIENCE AS WELL.

IN TERMS OF SMALL, MY SUGGESTION, IF WE CHOOSE ASPEN, WOULD BE THE HIGHLANDS, PRECISELY BECAUSE IT IS SMALL. THE GROUPS WOULD OFTEN BE IN SIGHT OF EACH OTHER SINCE THE STEEPS AND FLATS AND EASY AND HARD BUMPS ARE QUITE NEAR EACH OTHER. ALSO, FOR THE REAL POWER SKIER, HIGHLANDS BOWL--A GOOD WALK UP HILL--IS KILLER AWESOME.

(WE ALSO GOT THE FREE BUSES TO FOUR AREAS, RIC [img]smile.gif[/img] )

LM, AS FOR PRIVATES, THAT WOULD BE A HARDER ISSUE FOR MOST SKI AREAS TO PULL OFF. THE ACADEMY SKIRTS THE EDGES OF WHAT AREAS ALLOW IN TERMS OF OUTSIDE INSTRUCTORS COMING IN. THAT'S WHY WE GOT THE BOOT FROM SOLITUDE. BRIGHTON WAS WISE ENOUGH TO SEE THE OVERALL REVENUE AND EXPOSURE ISSUE, AND KIND ENOUGH NOT TO BE OVER-PROTECTIVE OF THEIR OWN PROS--ALTHOUGH WE WERE ON THEIR TURF. ONCE YOU START THE PRIVATE LESSON BUSINESS, YOU BEGIN TO IMPINGE ON THE LIVING OF THE LOCAL PROS. THAT'S BIG BUSINESS FOR THEM. I'M JUST THINKING OUT LOUD HERE, BUT THAT COULD MAKE THE NATIVES RESTLESS!
post #190 of 211
I thought of that right after I posted it. But with my darn cats that walk on the computer while I'm typing, well I figure that I probably edit my posts too much!! [img]smile.gif[/img]

As far as Aspen goes, there is definitely something to be said for having one of the Academy organizers do it at his home mountain. I realize that there's no way they can come up with a package that matches what we were paying at SLC, but if they could keep it reasonable, and at the same time, provide things that we did not have at Brighton, such as an acessible meeting area, free transportation to the mountain, letting me do my fitness presentation at the Aspen Club [ok, now I'm pushing] It can be good.

BTW

Are your ears burning?

[img]smile.gif[/img]
post #191 of 211
Just got a call from Mark, who's at Whitefish, Montana. He's paying $35 for hotel and $37 for lift tickets. Thinks it may be an Academy possibility, has what he describes as some "great bump teaching terrain", but says we should get feedback from the "kickass skiers' as to whether it has enough challenge.

Gonz, Nolo, RicB, Rio?

Edit for darn keyboard not functioning!

[ February 24, 2003, 08:37 PM: Message edited by: Lisamarie ]
post #192 of 211
IMHO Big Mtn would be great. Everyone must be forewarned, though, about its "dim spots" --

1. THE BIG FOG is its sorry nickname. It does get foggy pretty often, and because the Flathead Valley is prone to temperature inversions, the fog can be thick and multilayered. It doesn't bother me that much, but I know people who cannot ski in even mild fog. If any hopeful attendee dislikes skiing in fog, that hopeful should know TBM's fog propensity.

2. Sounds like Mark got a great deal 'cuz I haven't found lift tix or room rentals that cheap, and I was just up there last weekend! In other words, Whitefish and TBM are pretty expensive. There are squishy rumors that TBM is angling to bump its already-too-high $48/day lift ticket prices -- because the paucity of snow this year isn't supplying enough TBM revenue in comparison to the significant construction they're also doing right now. The strategy behind the high daily ticket rate is to encourage season pass buying -- TBM always has an outrageously low early-summer sale on the next season's passes. The Flathead Valley is developing very quickly and season passes ensure a good reliable income stream from which to draw construction funding.

Now, I confess those are the only "dim spots" in my book and I'm a pretty demanding person.

Terrain-wise, I think TBM has plenty of fun stuff, including a few spots that will pacify the budding Corbet's shredder. When it has a typical snow year, it can be fantastically good quality snow all over the mountain. This means that a huge variety of terrain is within a chair ride or two from wherever you are on the mountain. I have found nice deep powder stashes up to 2 weeks after the last dump. [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

The big long blue groomers -- Toni Matt, The Big Ravine, Moe Mentum -- are a big GS turner's delight.

The huge bouldered/tree stumped natural moguls in Elephants Graveyard can be pretty tough work when the snow isn't perfect

Fairly steep mogul runs are straight off the top lodge, running directly beneath Chair 7, and they have some gladed sections and open sections, giving all kinds of flavor. Right next door is Big Horn, a steep little drop into a wide cruddy mogul field.

And on bluebird days, the view is stupendous.

Other bonuses - 2 hours from Fernie, 1 hour from Blacktail, 2 hours from Snowbowl. On a good snow day, Snowbowl will kick your butt sideways, but you'll be grinning the whole time. It's a tough cowboy skier mountain, funky fall lines and nice natural features. It was the home mountain of Mark Elling, who wrote the excellent "The All-Mountain Skier," before he got wooed away to a nicer area.

So that's a bit of a start... [img]graemlins/evilgrin.gif[/img]
post #193 of 211
I hate fog.
post #194 of 211
Gonz, you forgot to mention the Canadians.
post #195 of 211
I have sent an email to everyone who has asked to be put on the 2004 Academy Distribution List. If you think you are on the list, and did not get that email, or if you'd like to be added to the list, please email me at dwightcramer@msn.com or PM here on the website, and I'll add your address.

Here's the text of what went out.

Greetings to everyone!

This is going to be real brief. I'm sending it for two reasons.

First, it's a test of the 2004 EpicSki Academy Distribution List. I've spent most of February collecting names, have put the new list together, and am now testing it and posting a notice in the various academy/gathering threads.

Second, I want to thank all of the participants for their outstanding feedback in response to the survey that we distributed several weeks ago. With only one extension, we received responses for over 90% of the participants. Those responses will be invaluable in setting the course for next year.

That's it. I plan to send out occasional (monthly?) updates concerning the 2004 EpicSki Academy for the foreseeable future, but for the time being have nothing to report.

Dwight Cramer
post #196 of 211
Quote:
Originally posted by Arcmeister:
Aspen and its 4 mountains varied terrain would be a great venue.
I think Snowmass would be a great base of operations for EA-II.

Just to thicken the plot, I'll also suggest Lake Tahoe.
Would be a great location for both gathering and EA-II.
The area has many of same offerings as Aspen:

Abundance of terrain variety for everyone.
History of great snow.
Abundance of lodging options.
Easilly accessable by reasonable airfair (Reno).

Heavenly could be a great base area to work first 3-days, with 4th as excursion day. (Kirkwood, Squaw, Alpine Meadows, etc).

But, I had so much fun I'd go anywhere; Canada, Tahoe, Idaho, Montana, Colorado, or even SLC again, just point me!

Arcmeister, I'd like to second your suggestion for Tahoe!
post #197 of 211
Quote:
IN TERMS OF SMALL, MY SUGGESTION, IF WE CHOOSE ASPEN, WOULD BE THE HIGHLANDS, PRECISELY BECAUSE IT IS SMALL. THE GROUPS WOULD OFTEN BE IN SIGHT OF EACH OTHER SINCE THE STEEPS AND FLATS AND EASY AND HARD BUMPS ARE QUITE NEAR EACH OTHER. ALSO, FOR THE REAL POWER SKIER, HIGHLANDS BOWL--A GOOD WALK UP HILL--IS KILLER AWESOME.
Weems makes a good case here for Aspen. How about getting there w/o a car from Denver though? One of the great things about SLC was that getting a lift to the airport was no big deal. Still, given a reasonable package certain convieniences could be overlooked.

Just to make things more complicated, in terms of Slc, I'm suprised that staying in Park City hasn't come up. Wouldn't that be -very- convienient?
post #198 of 211
[ March 05, 2003, 09:38 AM: Message edited by: Tog ]
post #199 of 211
At the last Academy was any attention paid to alignment issues on a basic level?
Just wondering if there were any experts to check and say something along the lines of :-
'Your in the ball park, Don't sweat it'
or
'My God your miles out. Best sort it out or you'll never ski like me...'

Obviously not a deal breaker, But it would be kinda intresting if someone would be willing to give a talk or something about the subject.
Mark
post #200 of 211
Even better! Steve Bagley, the bootfitter is also PSIA certified. He actually SKIED with some of us to check our alignment!

I also did postural analysis. We spoke about some things that were going on in basic posture, and how they could effect skiing!
post #201 of 211
Wow thats amazing I didn't know that.
Just out of curiosty was there anybody that needed urgent boot work, Or was everyone 'close enough'?
And was there the oportunity to get some work done at the Academy?
And will Steve be there next year?
So many questions. I'll shut up now.
post #202 of 211
I'm sorry i was unable to attend The Academy, One of the bright spots in skiing this season was skiing with my fellow Bears at Alta. I just wish I had not been so sick to enjoy it more or to act as guild for those that wanted to ski Deer Valley. I just hope I didn't give my cold to anyone. If so then I am sorry. It's great to hear so much positive feed back on The Academy. Since it was such a success at Brighton and The People at Brighton seem to want us back why not have it there again? Another thought would be to have 2 or 3 resorts that would be willing to Host an event listed, lets say we have Aspen, Brighton and A basin all willing to host an Academy, we could discuss the pros and cons of each place for a period of lets say 90 days. At the end of that 90 days we would then have 2 weeks for Epicski members vote on where they would like to hold the Academy. The same could be done for the Gathering. The Gathering and the Academy don't nessicarrilly have to be held at the same time and place as the Academy. Haveing two diffrent events in a season would be a great excuse to burn a few holes in the old Credit Cards. Heck it's our duty to spend more to kep the Economy going. I can't think of a better way to do my part then to spend my money then skiing.
post #203 of 211
Quote:
Originally posted by MarkP:
Wow thats amazing I didn't know that.
Just out of curiosty was there anybody that needed urgent boot work, Or was everyone 'close enough'?
And was there the oportunity to get some work done at the Academy?
And will Steve be there next year?
So many questions. I'll shut up now.
I'm not sure if anyone needed urgent boot work, although some did go to his shop.
But this was what I found both interesting and admirable. Some people thought that Iwas possibly canted too far foward. But when Steve skied with me, it was his opinion that my tendency to muscle my movements made it appear that way.
Imagine a boot fitter/alignment specialist telling you that you don't need alignment!

As far as him being there next year, that can only happen if we are in Utah.
post #204 of 211
To underscore what Lisamarie says about Steve Bagley: I did have him do some Zipfit liners for me, and I'm very satisfied. Also, when he was working with me, Steve took care to explain and demonstrate using a plastic foot skeleton - and he took time beyond what he was being paid for[the price of the Zipfits installed is a fixed price - he doesn't make more money by taking more time]. I was impressed by his knowledge of "things feet", both skiing related and otherwise. He doesn't try to sell you anything - he tries to help you understand your situation and explain the alternatives available, and if nothing is what you need, he tells you that.
post #205 of 211
I needed some urgent boot work done because of extreme discomfort, but not due to pressure on the painful area. Steve figured out the problem, fixed it, and it was completely solved. What a relief that was!
post #206 of 211
Just back from my Montana trip - Let me expand some on LM's earlier comments about what I told her about Big Mountain.

1. "Good bump teaching" terrain - I'm referring to terrain that's good for getting people like me off the groomed into some bumps. Same with trees. I found a lot of stuff that was challenging without being intimidating. But I obviously didn't go for the kind of terrain that a high-level bump and trees session would go after. Hellroaring Basin looked kind of gnarly though, as I carefully avoided it [img]smile.gif[/img]

2. Gonzo's comment about lift ticket prices. Nobody should pay the $48. They have a discount $39 ticket price for anybody with either a season pass, or a frequent skier card from anywhere else. They happily took my American Skiing Company (free) Edge frequent skier card. Since anybody can sign up for one of them at ASC's websites, a bit of prudent planning gets you a discount at Big Mtn.

3. Academy at same place as Gathering? Well as I noted elsewhere, it was an easy drive up to Fernie for a day trip, and wouldn't have been that much more to Kimberly. Red Mtn might or might not have been a viable day trip, but it's certainly close enough to drive up to the other venue for the Gathering (or vice versa).

4. Cheap Lodging: Super 8 motel about 1/4 mile south of downtown. 35.99/day after a 10% AAA/CAA member discount. Free continental breakfast. Power hookups outside for block heaters. Only problem was their "no skis in rooms" notice but no ski lockers, so that got ignored real quick.

5. Whitefish is a fun little ski town. Definitely not a "resort" in the glitzy sense, but has a fair amount of nightlife, restaurants, bars. More going on than in Fernie, which was last year a bit sparse for the Gathering IMHO. But more centralized than SLC/Midvale.

6. Airport nearby in Kalispell; not sure if the prices are higher. Most flights connect via SLC on Delta or via MSP on Northworst.

7. Easy overnight train (if any train is "easy" for non-train buffs) from Seattle or Portland. Gets to Whitefish about 7:30 am and has a reputation for usually being on time (unlike much of Amtrak). Return train to the coast leaves about 10pm, so arrival/departure days are full ski days.

8. Wheatfish beer.

9. It's only about 100 miles from gonzo so he might actually show

(BTW thanks gonzo for the tip about the best snow under the #7 chair!)
post #207 of 211
Mark,
Sorry to put a damper on it, but just did a check on flights, and, um, ouch. Cheapest I could get was around $1300, London - Amsterdam - MSP - Kalispell. That would probably rule out a lot of us Euros from joining in.

S
post #208 of 211
The convenience and expenses of the coaches should be a prime consideration. If the participants want to PAY a lot more so that the coaches don't need to, then some far-off place is fine. Otherwise, someplace closer to home base for the coaches seems to be worth thinking about. In this just concluded Academy, one coach was from Montana, one was from Park City area, two were from the midwest, and the remainder I believe were from Colorado. One of the assistant coaches was from Connecticut, at least a few from Colorado, and what am I leaving out? hmmmm. Anyway, again, the expenses born by the coaches ought to be a major concern, as they all LOST money by participating in this terrific event.
post #209 of 211
Fox,

I just checked Expedia, using bogus dates of 15 Jan 2004 - 26 Jan 2004 (the furthest out they can check) and got $985 for that NW/KLM flight Gatwick-MSP-Kalispell. Not great but not $1300.

As a comparison, the cheapest London - SLC flight for the same bogus dates was $812. Less but not by that much.

Who knows what will happen with airfares anyway? There are so many variables and sales that keep changing. My point being that let's not rule out Montana (either Big Sky or Big Mountain) just based on airfares - it's not that much different.
post #210 of 211
Mark,
Thanks, what I did wass choose dates about 2 months in advance, since that is my normal booking window. When I did that for SLC, I paid around $500 for the flight. That way I can price with most airlines/agencies and get a fair comparison.

I agree, we shouldn't rule anywhere out yet due to variables such as flights. Things we should be using are: variety & amount of pistes, accomodation, and instructors considerations

S

[ March 03, 2003, 02:02 AM: Message edited by: Wear the fox hat ]
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