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Explain dynamic skiing in the simplest way possible. - Page 4

post #91 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Matta View Post
 

 

 

you can bend the ski while standing still on the right slope. 

Hey, that's "dynamic" standing!;)

post #92 of 108

I started by thinking of some characteristics that are opposite to dynamic skiing: stiffness of joints, static stance, lack of steering or over-steering, and generally falling regularly out of balance. 

 

So my thought is dynamic skiing is a blend of balance with lots of movement, where you generate more speed by turning than can be achieved by just riding the sidecut. 

 

Because the word "dynamic" is synonymous with "range", I can't really fit park and ride or intermediate skiers in the definition, as they sorely lack in range of motion. 

post #93 of 108

Only if you are standing on those VR17's Bud.  

post #94 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog View Post
 

Calling @Jamt to settle this....

 

In the meantime, are you aware the 15 minutes could save you 15%...

The only forces acting on the skier is the snow-ski reaction force and gravity. The rest is acceleration. When drawing diagrams and thinking about forces the centrifugal force can be helpful, but it is just an apparent force. Turning is a type of acceleration.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Metaphor_ View Post
 

So my thought is dynamic skiing is a blend of balance with lots of movement, where you generate more speed by turning than can be achieved by just riding the sidecut. 

I'm not sure I get what you mean with "generate more speed by turning". The only way to "generate" speed is skating type of movements and that is not the first picture I have in mind when I think about dynamic skiing, although pumping speed on flat slopes could be considered dynamic. In the context of dynamic skiing I think it is more often the other way around. People just riding the sidecut loose control of speed and turning radius. 

post #95 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamt View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog View Post
 

Calling @Jamt to settle this....

 

In the meantime, are you aware the 15 minutes could save you 15%...

The only forces acting on the skier is the snow-ski reaction force and gravity. The rest is acceleration. When drawing diagrams and thinking about forces the centrifugal force can be helpful, but it is just an apparent force. Turning is a type of acceleration.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Metaphor_ View Post
 

So my thought is dynamic skiing is a blend of balance with lots of movement, where you generate more speed by turning than can be achieved by just riding the sidecut. 

I'm not sure I get what you mean with "generate more speed by turning". The only way to "generate" speed is skating type of movements and that is not the first picture I have in mind when I think about dynamic skiing, although pumping speed on flat slopes could be considered dynamic. In the context of dynamic skiing I think it is more often the other way around. People just riding the sidecut loose control of speed and turning radius. 

 

I guess it depends on what your definition of is is.  F IS equal ma.  Centrifugal forces EXISTs it is the body force that causes a ball to accelerate in an accelerated reference system (e.g. x-y coordinates painted on the floor of a moving van accelerating to 30 mph with a ball initially at rest at the origin). I IS a force as gravity exists, or F would not equal ma.

 

The wonderful thing about a good cross-under transition is that if you do it right, there is more force pushing you down the hill at the top of the turn than at the bottom the bottom of the turn when you are releasing.  It all adds up.  Ask Ted.

post #96 of 108

Speaking of Ted, that NY time article refers to releasing the energy of the bent ski into the next turn. Anyone detecting a common theme yet?

post #97 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRusty View Post
 

Speaking of Ted, that NY time article refers to releasing the energy of the bent ski into the next turn. Anyone detecting a common theme yet?

Yes. There is a misconception. Bent skis don't store that much energy. However, it's easier just to write it that way because the other involves a little physics and some explaining. Just a tad, but it's too much.

 

Promoting misconceptions and things that are just wrong in the name of simplicity is not beneficial though.

 

Here, this is more comedy than experiment, but it gets the idea across. Is there enough energy in bent ski to propel a skier into the new turn??

The boot moves across the floor mainly because it fell from a height.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by razie View Post
 

so... what am I doing wrong? my skis are hard to bend and shoot it quite a bit... see below why my helmet has more scratches than this morning

 

http://youtu.be/I19etFrGoXQ

 

I think i botched the release of the short skis - couldn't grab properly... but those suckers were really hard to bend, eh?

 

embedded here:

 

http://youtu.be/I19etFrGoXQ

post #98 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamt View Post

 

I'm not sure I get what you mean with "generate more speed by turning". The only way to "generate" speed is skating type of movements and that is not the first picture I have in mind when I think about dynamic skiing, although pumping speed on flat slopes could be considered dynamic. In the context of dynamic skiing I think it is more often the other way around. People just riding the sidecut loose control of speed and turning radius. 

 

? Mobility is one of the biomechanical principles in Canadian ski coaching and instruction... productive mobility enables skiers to generate pressure; while turning, the pressure leads to torque. Depending on where you bend or stretch throughout the turn, you can either increase or slow your speed. Constantly staying long in the joints is the opposite of dynamic... 

 

But I'm not a physicist... so I can't speak confidently about physics :confused other than to offer an easy example of the opposite: try majorly bending your joints through the middle and end of each turn in steeps and let the pressure off your skis and see what happens. (you will crawl down a steep.)

post #99 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRusty View Post
 

Speaking of Ted, that NY time article refers to releasing the energy of the bent ski into the next turn. Anyone detecting a common theme yet?

Yes. There is a misconception. Bent skis don't store that much energy. However, it's easier just to write it that way because the other involves a little physics and some explaining. Just a tad, but it's too much.

 

Promoting misconceptions and things that are just wrong in the name of simplicity is not beneficial though.

....

 

Tog,

 

Just think about how much faster Ted could be skiing if you'd clear up that misconception for him.  Why get stressed out about the magnitude of the energy? Do you think the direction the energy is being released might have some positive benefit?

post #100 of 108

Rusty, that's ridiculous.

You posted a definition that included the terms "release of the energy in a bent ski". Skis don't store much energy. What about a reverse camber ski? I guess it's impossible to store anything because it's already bent. Oh well.

 

That's it. No big deal, except sloppy descriptions lead to misconceptions. So, more manuals with more slop leads to sloppy understanding. Or, just don't read the manual like Josh.

This is my problem with the Demo Team. Waste of money if nothing gets produced. Better off to skip it and make a decent manual. Having volunteers do it is tough.

 

Whether Ted knows the distinction or not, he's using the energy just fine. One need not know these things to use them, but if one is describing and explaining to others, then it should at least be accurate. Or don't bother.

post #101 of 108
Physics is necessary to explain events that occur. How we apply the insight is another matter.
Edited by justanotherskipro - 2/15/14 at 4:12am
post #102 of 108
Well before going out to play, I want to pose the question about how much do we want to throw at newbie's. Overload is not a positive. Sadly it is newer instructors who can't seperate the lesson content from their training topics. And please don't take that negatively, I've just seen way too much regurgitation verse customizing of lesson content.
Edited by justanotherskipro - 2/15/14 at 7:52am
post #103 of 108

   Too bad we don't introduce newer (and more experienced) instructors to brushes and stubbs, maybe even break-a-ways eventually................

 

    zenny

post #104 of 108
Their plate is pretty full.
post #105 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherskipro View Post

Their plate is pretty full.

 

 

   I know. Change comes very slowly. Perhaps at first it would be more of a "if you can"/"when you can" kind of thing to be offered by qualified trainers and coaches. I know that you know of it's potential benefits for those that are interested. But challenging instructors that are interested could be a good thing...like everywhere else in life it would start at a "grassroots" level.

 

    zenny

post #106 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRusty View Post
 

Speaking of Ted, that NY time article refers to releasing the energy of the bent ski into the next turn. Anyone detecting a common theme yet?

Has anyone ever explained how "releasing the energy of the bent ski into the next turn" works?

I have seen the term or similar used a lot but never an explanation that holds. 

post #107 of 108

Moving with continual and energetic rhythm and flow.

post #108 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blizzard View Post
 

Moving with continual and energetic rhythm and flow.

Sounds like dancing or Olympic ice skating?  aaargh

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