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Old style Alpine skiis

post #1 of 38
Thread Starter 

Alright, I learned to ski some time ago and really cut things up when in my 20's and 30's. Now I'm an old duffer but want some new skis and don't like the fatter skis. I don't mind shorter, in fact want that. I skied on some 180 Hexels that were great back when. Does ANYONE make the older style (ala Rossignol Stratos width), in maybe 180cm anymore anywhere at all? I haven't been able to find them. Surely SOMEONE still makes the old profile Alpine skis. We skied pretty much everything on them and they worked fine. My muscles are tuned into those style board. Mine are too long and worn out. Anyone know of any?

post #2 of 38

Modern GS skis are actually not that different than those of the 80s.  They have a lot more torsional stability, but the sidecut is not all that much deeper.  Start with a pair of GS skis if you're wary of anything "too" different than what you used to ski.

 

That said, there is really no harm done in trying out a pair of rental skis just to see.  You can use old school technique to turn shaped skis a lot easier than a person could turn using newer tipping techniques on retro skis..

 

I went through what you are looking at about 8 years ago after a long break from skiing.  You'll be fine.

post #3 of 38
Thread Starter 

I can't believe that NO ONE in the entire world still makes the old style Alpine skis. It's like there's some kind of a secret agreement or something. Also, it used to be you could get GS (racing) skis at ski shops. Now they weren't exactly the same as what Killy skied on, but they were built the same and were the same dimensions. None of the ski shops I go to seem to even carry racing skis. Not that I'd buy them, but Im just curious about that too. Where do racers get their skis?

post #4 of 38

Long straight skis are a thing of the past. There is this thing, we call it technology, that has developed better skis. Those old skis you speak of dont really exist for the same reason a type writer doesnt. 

post #5 of 38

Both typewriters and straight skis still exist, and there are avid collectors and users of both.  It's OK to have preferences for the retro stuff.  But, I recommend trying everything available just so you are sure you really know what you are missing when you make your choices.

post #6 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by coloradokid View Post
 

I can't believe that NO ONE in the entire world still makes the old style Alpine skis. It's like there's some kind of a secret agreement or something.


Check out your local buggy whip store. I think they still carry them there. They keep them right next to the Fuzz Buster radar detectors.;) 

post #7 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by coloradokid View Post

I can't believe that NO ONE in the entire world still makes the old style Alpine skis. It's like there's some kind of a secret agreement or something. Also, it used to be you could get GS (racing) skis at ski shops. Now they weren't exactly the same as what Killy skied on, but they were built the same and were the same dimensions. None of the ski shops I go to seem to even carry racing skis. Not that I'd buy them, but Im just curious about that too. Where do racers get their skis?


No, there is no secret conspiracy. You're talking about gear that is now at least 3 decades old. In the early 70's, did you hear oldsters complaining that the new fangled Strato 102's weren't as good as their 10th mountain division army issued gear? Probably not, and yes, this is a pretty accurate analogy of your argument.

You really don't want a current FIS GS ski. NO, they DON'T ski like GS boards of old. What you might like is a non-FIS 'cheater' GS ski. It will had more sidecut than a GS ski from the 70's, but you shouldn't find that unpleasant. They will hold better on hard snow and turn easier, yet still be rock solid at speed. if you were skiing 180 Hexcels, chances are you werent able to handle a classic straight 205-210 GS ski. Tough love. Current non-FIS GS skis can be purchased or ordered from many outlets, including places like Start Haus.

Try here and give them a call: http://starthaus.com/skis/race-skis.html?___store=default

If you really want old skis, PM Rossi Smash... I'm sure he could help you find a 70's ski in pretty mint condition. Put some current bindings on them and have at it. smile.gif
post #8 of 38

I've seen some new in the wrapper straight skis for sale on the local craigslists from time to time.  Give eBay a look too you might find something there as well.  Mount up a modern race binding and you should be good to go and reliving all your glory of the 70s, 80s and early 90s.

 

I still have more days on straight skis than "shaped" or "Parabolics" as we used to call 'em in the late 90s.  In fact I never skied anything other than straight skis until 2008 *(Late adapter I know) when I demo'd some Volkl Katanas at Keystone on a pow day *(about 4 years prior to moving here full time, I'm sure if I had lived in CO and not the East Coast I'd have made the switch sooner).  I was hooked and have never gone back to the Salomon F9s that I held on to for entirely too long. 

post #9 of 38
I skied straight skis from 1971-2003. And I moaned about those new Mickey Mouse things, too. Hooky on cat tracks, always want to turn, dangerous.. I was dragged kicking and screaming about the darn things. Now I'm equally cantankerous about early rise. But I'd NEVER go back to straight skis!! And..I might even be accepting these darn early rise things..
post #10 of 38
Thread Starter 

I don't want anyone else to ski on them, just me.

post #11 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by coloradokid View Post

I don't want anyone else to ski on them, just me.
Sounds like you can find them online if you know what you want. Here's a loooong retro gear thread; and I'm sure folks over there will be happy to help if you need it.
post #12 of 38

check out the "More retro memories" thread  it is full of us old guys still skiing straight skis.  I usually find mine at the local thrift store(I live in ski country)  if your user name implies location so do you.  you will have to get new bindings for a shop to work on them and ensure safety. there are plenty of newer "shaped" skis that are lots of fun to ski and you will enjoy the ease of turning.  look for stuff from the early to mid 2000's ie about 10-12 years old.  many will have bindings that are still indemnified and they will ski great.  there is also a lot of review info still out there on the web.  a couple of gems I've found are the early Dynastar Legend series of skis 4800, 8000, and 8800's.  also Rossignol B series skis are good.  look for what were the high end or top of the line models.  they had better build quality and usually have better bindings too.

 

 

for modern equivalents to  old school skis look for dedicated bump skis like the hart F17. 

 

Royal

post #13 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by coloradokid View Post
 

Alright, I learned to ski some time ago and really cut things up when in my 20's and 30's. Now I'm an old duffer but want some new skis and don't like the fatter skis. I don't mind shorter, in fact want that. I skied on some 180 Hexels that were great back when. Does ANYONE make the older style (ala Rossignol Stratos width), in maybe 180cm anymore anywhere at all? I haven't been able to find them. Surely SOMEONE still makes the old profile Alpine skis. We skied pretty much everything on them and they worked fine. My muscles are tuned into those style board. Mine are too long and worn out. Anyone know of any?

 

As others have pointed out, the world has largely moved on, and the type of skis you're trying to find are not being made anymore. However if you search eBay, Craigslist, and your local thrift shops you might be surprised what you come across.

 

Other than that there are some places around that sell "new old stock" (NOS) skis. Here's one you might find interesting...

 

http://www.coloradodiscountskis.com/store/product383.html

 

It's "ancient" and completely outdated as far as most here are concerned, but it's still going to respond better to modern tipping technique than an old straight ski. However as crgildart pointed out you probably won't have any trouble with it.

 

Check out the "older" options under each of the manufacturer categories on that web site for more possible options.

 

Stick to your guns, ski what you like, enjoy!  ;-)

post #14 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by x10003q View Post
 


Check out your local buggy whip store. I think they still carry them there. They keep them right next to the Fuzz Buster radar detectors.;) 

And the 8-track players.

 

And BTW, I'll be 70 this year, started skiing on Northland wood skis in the 60's, graduated to Head Competition Vectors, Rossi Strato 102s and quite a few other easily forgotten straight skis.  When I first saw Elan SCX(IIRC) skis I thought they were very odd looking.  Then I got on a pair of Volkl P30 Race Carvers and got my eyes opened.  I now have a pair of Atomic ST11 with a pretty wicked sidecut, a pair of Nordica Steadfasts with early rise/tip rocker and a pair of Atomic Rituals with tip and tail rocker.  I have more fun skiing now than I have ever had at any time.  I still have some straight Olins and I could probably reset the bindings for my current boots and ski them in powder and bumps and trees, but the Steadfast and Ritual make it much more enjoyable, less stressful and less physically demanding.  There are a number of seniors who regularly ski at RLM, locals from Red Lodge, and every one of them that I've talked to is on pretty up to date skis.  The only time I see anyone on straight skis is during the holidays when the farmers from North Dakota descend on us, then it's neon fartbags, rear buckle boots, strapless poles and 200-210cm straight skis.  There is no way I would ever go back to that.  


Edited by mtcyclist - 2/7/14 at 5:55pm
post #15 of 38
... Just past the CB radio aisle.
post #16 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by coloradokid View Post
 

I can't believe that NO ONE in the entire world still makes the old style Alpine skis. It's like there's some kind of a secret agreement or something. Also, it used to be you could get GS (racing) skis at ski shops. Now they weren't exactly the same as what Killy skied on, but they were built the same and were the same dimensions. None of the ski shops I go to seem to even carry racing skis. Not that I'd buy them, but Im just curious about that too. Where do racers get their skis?

when you go to the Ford dealer are you just as disappointed, that the Model T was replaced with the Model A, Get a cheater GS like a Rossi Masters 

post #17 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad J View Post

when you go to the Ford dealer are you just as disappointed, that the Model T was replaced with the Model A, Get a cheater GS like a Rossi Masters 

If I could walk into a Ford dealer and buy a 1967 Mustang, made exactly the same way as the original, I would seriously consider it.

If I could buy it for $3,000 I would definitely do it.

It might not have the power, handling, or conveniences of a modern car, but I would have a Helluva good time driving it
post #18 of 38
post #19 of 38

"~~And the 8-track players."  oh c'mon!!  I still have one of those! and 3 turntables that I play old 78's on!! but I would never go back to my fischer superglass or Yamaha hi flex again.  mtcyclist, haven't seen you in awhile barriers and lynns run are good.

post #20 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by wyowindrunner View Post
 

"~~And the 8-track players."  oh c'mon!!  I still have one of those! and 3 turntables that I play old 78's on!! but I would never go back to my fischer superglass or Yamaha hi flex again.  mtcyclist, haven't seen you in awhile barriers and lynns run are good.

I'm working less, more retired, and skiing more.  I was up today.  Spent just about all my time on Thompsons. Berry's, Continental, Boomerang. Bear Paw and Bigfoot.  Just working on bumps.  I was on Barriers and Lynn's and in the Kitchen Sink last week.  They were good as is just about everything, except True Grit.  Great year.  I'll send you a PM when I figure out when I can be up next week, but Friday for sure if you're going to be around then.

post #21 of 38

when was the last time you were on an old ski?  I think you would be surprised how good some of them they really are (as soon as you remember how to ski them).  I've skied a lot of vintage gear in the last few years and there are a few skis I have gone back and skied multiple times because they are so good.  Fischer SUPERGLASS COMPETITION(late 60's),  Dynamic VR17(late 70's), Dynastar COURSE HP(early 80's), and RD HELI-DOG (late 80's?).  In my opinion these skis out perform some mid and low end modern shape skis when conditions are steep and/or hard or you want to go fast on the groomers. (see "MORE RETRO MEMORIES" thread for pics and reviews. sorry I do not know how to embed the link.)

 

Royal 

post #22 of 38

If you're asking me, it was probably around 1997 or maybe 1998 when I tried the Volkl P30s.  Goodbye straight skinny skis and good riddance.  I don't use low-end skis, but I also don't ski Kaestle or Stockli either.  The skis I use for 95% of my skiing are Nordica Steadfasts and Atomic Rituals, certainly not low-end and probably not mid either.  The other 5% is Atomic ST11s and Icelantic Shamans.  I purposely worked hard at adapting/changing to the current ski design.  We are polar opposites in terms of ski preference.  I'm sure I wouldn't even like my old beloved Rossi Strato 102s if I still had them around.

post #23 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by jc-ski View Post


If I could walk into a Ford dealer and buy a 1967 Mustang, made exactly the same way as the original, I would seriously consider it.

If I could buy it for $3,000 I would definitely do it.

It might not have the power, handling, or conveniences of a modern car, but I would have a Helluva good time SELLING IT AT A BARRETT-JACKSON AUCTION..

fixed it for you

post #24 of 38

Roatary phones.  They were the best!  They helped slow you down so you could smell the roses.  I used to have to call my wife at work by dialing 1-800-999-9931 on a rotary (went out of business long ago).  It took about 45 minutes or so.  Straight skis are like that. 

 

Demo some new styles before making up your mind about what kind of ski is good for you.  You might be surprised.

post #25 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

I skied straight skis from 1971-2003. And I moaned about those new Mickey Mouse things, too. Hooky on cat tracks, always want to turn, dangerous.. I was dragged kicking and screaming about the darn things. Now I'm equally cantankerous about early rise. But I'd NEVER go back to straight skis!! And..I might even be accepting these darn early rise things..

 

I would be surprised is a pair of these didn't blow your mind. They can even be railed.

post #26 of 38

I agree that newer shape skis are great. I and my family ski on them most of the time and they are easier to ski and usually better in most conditions and can be quite versatile.  I would recommend to any one skiing today to use the new skis if they can afford them.  I just think the old ones are not as bad as most think.  and I would definitely have more fun on an old high end ski than a new low end ski.  I have skied both and some of the worst skis I've used  were mid range volkls from about 10 years ago.  just scary. 

post #27 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by anachronism View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

I skied straight skis from 1971-2003. And I moaned about those new Mickey Mouse things, too. Hooky on cat tracks, always want to turn, dangerous.. I was dragged kicking and screaming about the darn things. Now I'm equally cantankerous about early rise. But I'd NEVER go back to straight skis!! And..I might even be accepting these darn early rise things..

 

I would be surprised is a pair of these didn't blow your mind. They can even be railed.

I'd be extremely surprised.  They are women's skis.  I am taller with a guy's weight range.  I have skis with early rise and have adjusted to them but it wasn't easy and I am not sold on them for all situations.  They work for what I got them for.  That's as far as I'd go.  However, learning to ski them has probably been "good for me", as with most things that move you out of your comfort zone.  

post #28 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post
 

I'd be extremely surprised.  They are women's skis.  I am taller with a guy's weight range.  I have skis with early rise and have adjusted to them but it wasn't easy and I am not sold on them for all situations.  They work for what I got them for.  That's as far as I'd go.  However, learning to ski them has probably been "good for me", as with most things that move you out of your comfort zone.  

 

Ok, so try one of the unisex version if you think the girl ski is too wimpy.

 

My point is, and the reason I posted it in this thread, is that I really think 5 point skis like the Rossi line are the biggest game changer that has happened in my lifetime, and THAT INCLUDES the change from straight to shaped skis.

 

I was a pretty decent skier in the straight ski days.

 

I was skeptical about shaped skis and didn't take the bait until 2004, and it took a serious knee injury to do it.  Obviously shaped skis introduce totally new dynamics on groomed snow, but the benefits to moguls and powder are a bit less tangible.

 

Then onto fat skis. Fun on deep snow, but at the expense of hard-snow performance.

 

Rockered (tip/tail) conventional sidecut skis were a huge disappointment for me. I expected awesome powder capability, smeary and capable skis. I got slightly better float than a camber ski of the same width but almost no good smear- tips still had to lead or you were playing with fire. Plus, now my tip is in the air and is worthless on hard snow.

 

5 point skis were everything I expected skis to be when rocker first hit the marketplace, AND MUCH MORE. I can ski it just like all of my old midfats, but can butter and steer a turn at any point I want on virtually any snow condition- powder, crud, chop, even moguls. I can ski trees much tighter than ever because course correction is always there- if I can fit my body through, I can ski through. I can also ski blind tree lines where I would previously stop- The skis give me the confidence to keep going even when I don't know where my next turn is, as worst case is that I can throw the sideways and hit the brakes without losing control in deep snow.

 

And then groomers. Suddenly, even with 40% of the ski rockered and off the snow, I have a ski tip. The fattest part of the tip and tail are at the hard-snow contact point, and you can feel it and use that to drive a turn. I've found I can rail my 118 waist 5 points pretty darned well, even on some days of rained-on refrozen. Is it a 72 waist carver? Not at all, but I've never felt overmatched by hard snow on skis like this, and a key reason is the fact that a tip exists. A lot of 5 points have some pretty tight turn radii in the sidecut portion of the ski and can be downright SNAPPY on hard snow. 

 

I think a well-matched 5 point makes for the most versatile ski that has ever existed. Deep Snow. Crud. Groomers. Moguls. All are much more fun than the skis I left behind. 95% of my ski time is spent on them. The only times something else comes out is when I know I will only ski groom all day, or when I am coreshot worried.

post #29 of 38
I never heard of a five point ski. How do you know you've got one?
post #30 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

I never heard of a five point ski. How do you know you've got one?

 

Tapered Tip and Tapered Tails. Basically the widest point of the ski is moved inbounds and back into contact with the snow. Because the tip and tails are now skinnier than the parts of the ski already in contact with the snow, they no longer catch the snow in unpredictable ways when you pivot the ski.

 

I'll use my current go-to ski, the Bluehouse Maestro, because they use a really clear diagram to show dimensions.

 

You can tell you are on a ski of this type because the tips look funny.

 

Another way to think about it is to think of a reverse camber, reverse sidecut like the old Volant Spatula. Then imagine somebody took a Spatula and cut a conventional sidecut in the underfoot area.

 

When I first saw this type of ski, I thought it was gimmicky and a great way to create a ski that did nothing well. I ate my words.

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