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Looking for some MA

post #1 of 19
Thread Starter 

Hey everybody,

 

Just looking to get some tips on stuff I can do to improve my skiing.

 

I don't get on my skis much, maybe 5-10 days a year but I love it and am always trying to improve.

 

So fire away.

 

Looking to get back on the mountain next weekend so would love to have some stuff to think about and work on while I'm out there.

 

Thanks guys!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7Gfu5iFIX8&feature=youtu.be

 

(Not exactly sure how to get the video embedded into this thread so if that makes it easier to view, let me know how i can do that)

post #2 of 19

so let me run some thing down.....

 

tactically your turn shape is roundish most of the time. more round would be better but this is not so bad.

 

the fore and aft balance seems ok but tend be aft and you do show a lack of mobility 

 

your feet turn more than your body it could be better a lot better.

 

you edging/tipping move is rather ineffective. You start the move by chucking your upper body and inclinating your upper body to the point that you are literally tipping your upper body more to the inside than your legs are especially your lower legs . there are some frames where you upper spine is leaned more into the turn than your lower legs. as well what is causing your down stem into turn This is basically backwards..... edging movement begin at our feet and move up our bodies and for the majority of rec skiers whould stop at the hip. IE the femur joint is doing the tipping and letting our skis move underneath us. 

 

if you forget the above first 3 points and focus on this it will be the biggest improvement, you can come back and polish the other stuff later...

 

with your ski boots on in your house you can start tipping your feet and get a feel for this sort of balance. The advantage of doing it while not moving is the movement can become ingrained and it will be impossible to fake. the movement start with your inside leading the way, do realize that eventually while on snow the inside arch will lift while the outside arch will take our balance. take it to snow by doing a moderately fast traverse and lifting and tilting your up hill arch into the hill, the skis will respond to your input by making a direction change up the hill. 

 

eventually on the easiest terrain you can find, try to start turns by lifting and tilting your new inside arch (which is down hill in completed finish turned). be sure to remain balance on your outside ski or will literally tip over.  tip into the turn with your feet, then from there you can either let the sidecut carve by tipping more, you can let the sidecut brush by tipping a little, or tip less and point your feet where you want to go. Realize the motions come from the femur/hip joint for both tipping/steering efforts. 

 

you will eventaully need to go back and polish the other skills, but the above will stop the inclination eventually, and should stop that wedge entry. 

post #3 of 19

Or maybe you might just try skiing more?

 

Seriously though, stop hopping your turns. If you can't make turns while maintaining snow contact, your skis are either too long, or your weight transfer isn't happening soon enough. Looks like maybe you're driving/steering too much with the tail of the ski. This is especially evident when your tips splay in different directions as you ski over a bump.

 

Try to turn more through angulation (laying the ski over on its edge), with hips and abdomen forward (upright stance), rather than turning with your feet and lower legs alone, in that hunched over posture. In other words; intercourse your turns, don't poop on them.


Edited by MT Skull - 2/1/14 at 11:25pm
post #4 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by MT Skull View Post
 

Or maybe you might just try skiing more?

 

Seriously though, stop hopping your turns. If you can't make turns while maintaining snow contact, your skis are either too long, or your weight transfer isn't happening soon enough. Looks like maybe you're driving/steering too much with the tail of the ski. This is especially evident when your tips splay in different directions as you ski over a bump.

 

Try to turn more through angulation (laying the ski over on its edge), with hips and abdomen forward (upright stance), rather than turning with your feet and lower legs alone, in that hunched over posture. In other words; intercourse your turns, don't poop on them.

 

 

skiing more with bad habit just solidifies the habits. Practice makes permanent. 

 

first ask yourself does balance on the outside ski come from angluation? or does angulation come from balance on the outside ski?

 

what say you about when the tip come together at the start of his turn? is he driving from the tails there?

 

and your last paragraph is kinda of odd. You actually do want to turn with your feet, and keep your hips down the fall line .

 

and when do you want to intercourse? maybe sometime you want to poop. 

post #5 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Matta View Post
 

 

 

skiing more with bad habit just solidifies the habits. Practice makes permanent.

 

first ask yourself does balance on the outside ski come from angluation? or does angulation come from balance on the outside ski?

 

what say you about when the tip come together at the start of his turn? is he driving from the tails there?

 

and your last paragraph is kinda of odd. You actually do want to turn with your feet, and keep your hips down the fall line .

 

and when do you want to intercourse? maybe sometime you want to poop.

Well, you seem to want to poop on all your turns. Well done!

 

My tips were for mcl116, and those were offered for free. I think you're uncoachable, but if you really want my advice, I'm gonna hafta charge you.

post #6 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Matta View Post
 

so let me run some thing down.....

 

tactically your turn shape is roundish most of the time. more round would be better but this is not so bad.

 

the fore and aft balance seems ok but tend be aft and you do show a lack of mobility 

 

your feet turn more than your body it could be better a lot better.

 

you edging/tipping move is rather ineffective. You start the move by chucking your upper body and inclinating your upper body to the point that you are literally tipping your upper body more to the inside than your legs are especially your lower legs . there are some frames where you upper spine is leaned more into the turn than your lower legs. as well what is causing your down stem into turn This is basically backwards..... edging movement begin at our feet and move up our bodies and for the majority of rec skiers whould stop at the hip. IE the femur joint is doing the tipping and letting our skis move underneath us. 

 

if you forget the above first 3 points and focus on this it will be the biggest improvement, you can come back and polish the other stuff later...

 

with your ski boots on in your house you can start tipping your feet and get a feel for this sort of balance. The advantage of doing it while not moving is the movement can become ingrained and it will be impossible to fake. the movement start with your inside leading the way, do realize that eventually while on snow the inside arch will lift while the outside arch will take our balance. take it to snow by doing a moderately fast traverse and lifting and tilting your up hill arch into the hill, the skis will respond to your input by making a direction change up the hill. 

 

eventually on the easiest terrain you can find, try to start turns by lifting and tilting your new inside arch (which is down hill in completed finish turned). be sure to remain balance on your outside ski or will literally tip over.  tip into the turn with your feet, then from there you can either let the sidecut carve by tipping more, you can let the sidecut brush by tipping a little, or tip less and point your feet where you want to go. Realize the motions come from the femur/hip joint for both tipping/steering efforts. 

 

you will eventaully need to go back and polish the other skills, but the above will stop the inclination eventually, and should stop that wedge entry. 


The above is good advice.  Also, good advice later, thrust those hips forward; don't sit on the toilet.

post #7 of 19
Thread Starter 
Ok so I get that I am initiating my turns incorrectly and that it should begin more with rolling the ankles?

I will certainly give it a shot at home standing in my boots.

But can you also give me ideas of what to be thinking about when I'm actually out there on my skis as well?

And trust me, I wish skiing much more was an option haha

But I like to try and improve even just a little bit each time I get out there, even if that is a very limited amount.

Thanks for the help so far!
post #8 of 19
I like to think about cheeseburgers and porn
post #9 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcl116 View Post


But can you also give me ideas of what to be thinking about when I'm actually out there on my skis as well?
 

I almost moderated post#8 until I figured out it was related to this question. When you are working on technique, think about where you want to go, what movements you are working or checking for desired results. Otherwise you will ski your best when you are not thinking about your skiing.

post #10 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by MT Skull View Post
 

Or maybe you might just try skiing more?

 

Seriously though, stop hopping your turns. If you can't make turns while maintaining snow contact, your skis are either too long, or your weight transfer isn't happening soon enough. Looks like maybe you're driving/steering too much with the tail of the ski. This is especially evident when your tips splay in different directions as you ski over a bump.

 

Try to turn more through angulation (laying the ski over on its edge), with hips and abdomen forward (upright stance), rather than turning with your feet and lower legs alone, in that hunched over posture. In other words; intercourse your turns, don't poop on them.


You can't just tell him to stop hopping. He does it for a reason and it gets him into a new turn. No one does an inefficient movement for no reason. He needs a replacement move. I think the garlands Josh spoke of is a good place to start, also introducing a release of the edges in the same garlands would be helpful as well and provide a new, more efficient way to get to the other side of the skis. I do think Josh is right with the hierarchy. Introduce turning with the feet, learn to release, learn to use flexion to allow the skis to be steered, bring back the extension in a productive and appropriate manner. All can be done in the garland.

post #11 of 19
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRusty View Post

I almost moderated post#8 until I figured out it was related to this question. When you are working on technique, think about where you want to go, what movements you are working or checking for desired results. Otherwise you will ski your best when you are not thinking about your skiing.

 



What I meant was, should I be thinking, "ok roll my ankles, pull my inside foot back..."

That mode of thinking, helps me work on new things when I'm skiing.

Although I do find my mind wandering to food and porn quite often as well haha
post #12 of 19

Hey - I was letting Josh take this one. Using his advice, you could be thinking "raise the arch", "feel outside balance".

post #13 of 19

I would just like to say that for 5-10 days per year, that's good skiing. Areas for improvement aside, you're moving down the hill a lot more cleanly than many skiers who ski a lot more and go for style and speed over technique. I will leave the MA to people more qualified than me (but I will echo Josh's advice about tipping the skis with the feet and lower legs) but your head's in the right place and that's the biggest hurdle right there. 

post #14 of 19

Mcl116--LiveJazz is right--there's a lot going well in your turns, especially if you haven't had much time to develop your skills. You use your edges effectively, especially at the end of your turns, to grip and hold the line you're trying to ski. You turn your skis primarily with your legs, as opposed to heaving them around with gross movements of your upper body (a movement pattern that haunts the vast majority of recreational skiers). It looks to me like you have the skill to get your skis to do pretty much whatever you want them to do, most of the time.

 

So the question is--what do you want them to do? Most of your turns begin abruptly, with fairly intense movements to twist your skis and get onto the new edges. Then those movements become minimal, once you get the turn started. The result is a very "Z"-shaped line, with little roundness to your turn finishes. With your skill set, there's no reason your turns have to be this shape, so I must assume that somewhere, perhaps unconsciously, you want your turns to be this shape. 

 

My suggestion is to focus on your tactics first, before trying to make any of the technical changes others have suggested. Visualize your turns being rounder, with more "patient" starts, more time spent in the middle with your skis and body traveling down the hill, and more activity at the end to maintain the round shape and finish the turn--perhaps even traveling a little uphill before starting the next turn. Rounding the turns will involve decreasing the intensity while increasing the duration of your movements and efforts. This tactical focus will hold in all of your turns, large and small, and in all conditions, including the short, quick turns of bumps. 

 

Changing your tactics will, all by itself, begin to change some of your movements. When you aren't in such a rush to get through the turn, you are less likely to use your upper body and more likely to begin your movements lower down, as Josh has suggested. 

 

From your movements, I assume that you've had at least a little instruction sometime in the past. If you really want to improve in your few days on skis, I cannot highly enough recommend that you seek out a good instructor and get some guidance and focus in real time, on the snow. But go out and play with a rounder and more complete turn shape first and see how it goes. Then jump in on a lesson to get the wrinkles ironed out.

 

Best regards,

Bob Barnes

post #15 of 19
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Barnes View Post
 

Mcl116--LiveJazz is right--there's a lot going well in your turns, especially if you haven't had much time to develop your skills. You use your edges effectively, especially at the end of your turns, to grip and hold the line you're trying to ski. You turn your skis primarily with your legs, as opposed to heaving them around with gross movements of your upper body (a movement pattern that haunts the vast majority of recreational skiers). It looks to me like you have the skill to get your skis to do pretty much whatever you want them to do, most of the time.

 

So the question is--what do you want them to do? Most of your turns begin abruptly, with fairly intense movements to twist your skis and get onto the new edges. Then those movements become minimal, once you get the turn started. The result is a very "Z"-shaped line, with little roundness to your turn finishes. With your skill set, there's no reason your turns have to be this shape, so I must assume that somewhere, perhaps unconsciously, you want your turns to be this shape. 

 

My suggestion is to focus on your tactics first, before trying to make any of the technical changes others have suggested. Visualize your turns being rounder, with more "patient" starts, more time spent in the middle with your skis and body traveling down the hill, and more activity at the end to maintain the round shape and finish the turn--perhaps even traveling a little uphill before starting the next turn. Rounding the turns will involve decreasing the intensity while increasing the duration of your movements and efforts. This tactical focus will hold in all of your turns, large and small, and in all conditions, including the short, quick turns of bumps. 

 

Changing your tactics will, all by itself, begin to change some of your movements. When you aren't in such a rush to get through the turn, you are less likely to use your upper body and more likely to begin your movements lower down, as Josh has suggested. 

 

From your movements, I assume that you've had at least a little instruction sometime in the past. If you really want to improve in your few days on skis, I cannot highly enough recommend that you seek out a good instructor and get some guidance and focus in real time, on the snow. But go out and play with a rounder and more complete turn shape first and see how it goes. Then jump in on a lesson to get the wrinkles ironed out.

 

Best regards,

Bob Barnes


Thanks for the compliments, truly appreciate it.

 

I never really had too much instruction actually.  I definitely did have a couple lessons here and there when I was very very young but I was a bit of a brat and never wanted to take lessons and just wanted to annoy and ski with my dad and make him drag me around the mountain with his poles all day haha

 

I really learned just by skiing and following my dad.

 

For the most part, I can do what I want/need to do on skis however, this abrupt turn initiation/z-shaped turn is not something I am trying to do, nor do I want.  I don't even realize that I'm doing it when I'm skiing so it's something I really want to work on.

 

When you say be more patient, I'm not exactly sure what that means.  Could you elaborate on that a bit for me?

 

Thanks!

 

I think if I can get this corrected, I could really get my skiing to the next level.

post #16 of 19

mcl116 - I think your skiing is very good. You should be proud of yourself. But with the limited amount of skiing you are able to put in each year and taking in consideration your current level I would say that not much can be or should be done without actually skiing with an instructor. You weren't ready as a kid but I can sense you are now. Next time take a private lesson, 2-3h. In the mean time, my advice to you would be pretty much the same as Bob's. Concentrate on tactics. That's what I do myself. I constantly try to make my turns round and even and I scout for good places to turn. By that I mean that I'm always looking for terrain features to help me turn. Bumps, ridges or piles of soft snow. Nothing major. Can be the smallest pile of snow. Then I tie these terrain obstacles together by round evenly shaped turns. In bumps you should always use them to turn on. Not around. Using the bumps will give you speed control. Check out good bump threads on line selection. 

 

I don't think hopping turns is a bad thing. Check out my thread on how to ski crud for a visual. The thing is that jumping up in the air gives you two major advantages. (1) At turn initiation when you are supposed to begin to steer your skis as your skis are up in the air they are free of any nasty uneven snow. (2) As you land you gain added momentum for steering your skis through the gutter with authority and control. The trick with jumping your turns is not to jump up in the air to point your skis down in the fall line. Try to jump up in the air while you are still going across the slope. You start steering your skis when you land. Not in the air. You continue in the same direction after you land before you turn into the fall line. As you become better at it you don't need to jump that high and when you become an expert nobody will even see you jumping. I jump my turns when I feel I need it. Or just for the heck of it. Its a good way of making bad crud conditions fun. You seem to have fun. Keep it up.

 

How to be more patient? What I said above. As you initiate your turn don't try to rush your skis into the fall line and back across. Be patient. Let the skis do the work for you.

 

Want to help your for aft balance? Dump the back pack. I never ski with a back pack if I don't have to. And usually I don't. Also, what skis are you on? Check that they are right for you and keep the edges and the base well tuned and waxed.

 

T

post #17 of 19
Don't jump your turns. Nobody wants to see that, and it's the fast-track to a sore back.

The tip on the z-turns was a good one, along with skiing more. You've got a solid foundation; build on it. Ski with people better than you, even if you have to bribe them. That's how you really become a better skier; by picking up on visual cues from seeing it done right in person. Interwebz discussion can only take you so far...
post #18 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by MT Skull View Post

Don't jump your turns. Nobody wants to see that, and it's the fast-track to a sore back.

The tip on the z-turns was a good one, along with skiing more. You've got a solid foundation; build on it. Ski with people better than you, even if you have to bribe them. That's how you really become a better skier; by picking up on visual cues from seeing it done right in person. Interwebz discussion can only take you so far...

 

 

hopefully he never skis with you.

 

 

skiing with better people usually makes a person more defensive as they get drawn into speeds and terrain that they want nothing to do with so instead of  turning to "going there" they are turning to "not go there" 

 

emtpy let me ask why do we turn? 

post #19 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Matta View Post


hopefully he never skis with you.


skiing with better people usually makes a person more defensive as they get drawn into speeds and terrain that they want nothing to do with so instead of  turning to "going there" they are turning to "not go there" 

emtpy let me ask why do we turn? 
Why do you turn? Probably to avoid running into things, and because you feel more comfortable going slow. Why do I turn? Because chicks dig how I turn. It's all for the ladies.

OP would benefit hugely from skiing with me, and I wouldn't even charge him. He should look me up next time he's in Colorado, so we could work on improving his skiing, not just talk about it.
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