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any recommendations for a ski intructor in Cincinnati area that can work with advanced kids?

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 

I have been working with my daughter on skiing she is 5. This is her second season at Perfect North. This week I spoke to an instructor about getting her to use edges on turning learn to carve and do a hockey stop. I also want her to be able to check speed better using her edges on steeper blue terrain as well as get to the black terrain this season. I did not tell her the black terrain lol she would have thought I'm nuts. She did give me a crazy look and told me 5 year olds were not gonna be able to do that. I said ok and booked lesson. After a few runs she was amazed that my daughter was starting to use edges and could not believe the ability. She told me skip there doodles kids program and encouraged me to get her into race program next year for more advanced instruction as she is past the level of the doodles instruction. I am fine with that idea and she is excited to do that next season but imo I have another 4-6 weeks that I can get her instruction this season. I am wondering if there are any advanced instructors in the region that I could hire outside of the race programs for one on one lessons? Any recommendations on this?

 

As much as I believe Perfect North has great lesson programs and can help beginners grow and become comfortable I do not believe right now there standard instructor is going to be able to maximize my kids ability. Hell she even said that when saying go to advanced race program. I need help to get her going this season. I am only a second year skier and can only do so much. I do not want her to have bad habits.

 

Thanks for the help. I live in Cincinnati area but could be willing to travel to mad river or other areas for qualified instruction. I am really hoping not to have to go to rocky mountains lol.

post #2 of 25

Don't know about Ohio, but if you would consider a ski weekend there are possibilities in western PA.  For instance, I know Seven Springs has a pretty strong ski school.  Could give you a recommendation for Blue Knob, but that may be better for next season.  Timberline or Canaan Valley in WV could be good but requires mountain driving.

 

My daughter was doing Massanutten black runs at age 6, her third season.  Great ski school there but too far from you.  I was an intermediate when she was learning the basics.  I let the instructors teach her, then got advice on how to help her practice.

post #3 of 25

I'd inquire at Perfect North and see if they have any certified instructors.  Chances are they do.  Heck the little hill by home has level 3 instructors...not that I think a 5 year old needs a level 3 instructor.

 

IMO a 5 year old doesn't need an "advanced instructor" to learn to use her edges.  You really just need a competent instructor, not some high school kid.  Shouldn't be too hard to find.

post #4 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmr40 View Post
 

I'd inquire at Perfect North and see if they have any certified instructors.  Chances are they do.  Heck the little hill by home has level 3 instructors...not that I think a 5 year old needs a level 3 instructor.

 

IMO a 5 year old doesn't need an "advanced instructor" to learn to use her edges.  You really just need a competent instructor, not some high school kid.  Shouldn't be too hard to find.


thanks while I agree this instructor seemed hesitant to push my kid who has ability to be pushed. I do not get it but I dont want to spend $25 a session on stupidity. Turning on bunny hill is easy for her I want someone that can push envelope to steeper blues turning. She can do all the moderate stuff no problem and she can control herself on high speeds down steep blues. It amazes me that the instructor seemed to want to push off more advanced stuff like using edges and carving to next season when I can put her into the race program with better instructors lol. If she has ability to learn now then teach it now.

post #5 of 25
Contact the ski school director and discuss which instructor best fits your daughter's needs.

No offense to you but as a 2nd year skier, perhaps you are misunderstanding what her instructor is telling you. Edging is incorporated into all levels of skiing. I am sure there are instructors who are capable of teaching your daughter at her level.
post #6 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by skier31 View Post

Contact the ski school director and discuss which instructor best fits your daughter's needs.

No offense to you but as a 2nd year skier, perhaps you are misunderstanding what her instructor is telling you. Edging is incorporated into all levels of skiing. I am sure there are instructors who are capable of teaching your daughter at her level.

 

I will do that. I am sure there are. I just did not like the fact we did not really progress in the lesson at all. I have a message into ski school and will try and find someone with child credentials. My issue with the last lesson is we spent the entire time with instructor and my daughter did not learn anything new. When I initially spoke to her and told her what I wanted her to work on it was more 5 year olds cant do that yet.

 

Maybe just not a fit however I just do not want to waste time and money trying different instructors that are not gonna push her ability at all. Maybe I am just pissed that we basically skied for an hour to sell her on fact she was ready for learning to use edges and how to carve as well as a hockey stop. Lesson ended with instructor stating thats what we can advance to next time. Well hell I wanted that this time.

 

Maybe I should lower expectations on people. I am just frustrated that the instructor ignored my assessment of where she is ability wise and spent an hour so she would believe me.

 

Hopefully talking to director and setting up specific request for instruction will help.

post #7 of 25
I agree it may not be a good fit and you are doing the right thing to deal with that.

When you find the right instructor, it is important that you trust the instructor to guide your daughter. As I said in the other post, it may be helpful for you, as a 2nd year skier, to do some lessons with her. There is so much to learn and I am sure you have only scratched the surface. An hour lesson is not a huge amount of time. That is the beauty if the race programs. It takes time and repetition to develop good skills.

Enjoy the journey!
post #8 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohioskier View Post
 


thanks while I agree this instructor seemed hesitant to push my kid who has ability to be pushed. I do not get it but I dont want to spend $25 a session on stupidity. Turning on bunny hill is easy for her I want someone that can push envelope to steeper blues turning. She can do all the moderate stuff no problem and she can control herself on high speeds down steep blues. It amazes me that the instructor seemed to want to push off more advanced stuff like using edges and carving to next season when I can put her into the race program with better instructors lol. If she has ability to learn now then teach it now.

Completely understand. You just need to find the right instructor who will do a good assessment of where she is at and what she needs to work on.  The recommendation above to contact the ski school director is a good one.  I'd be willing to bet they have someone who is capable of taking her skiing to the next level.  Just telling you to put her in a race program is doing you and her a disservice.

 

If you're not happy though, sounds like road trip time.  It's a ways from Cinnci, but Boyne Highlands/Mountain in MI have some instructors who are great with kids.  Also, I think Snowshoe in WV has a good kids program.  That may be closer.

post #9 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmr40 View Post
 

Completely understand. You just need to find the right instructor who will do a good assessment of where she is at and what she needs to work on.  The recommendation above to contact the ski school director is a good one.  I'd be willing to bet they have someone who is capable of taking her skiing to the next level.  Just telling you to put her in a race program is doing you and her a disservice.

 

If you're not happy though, sounds like road trip time.  It's a ways from Cinnci, but Boyne Highlands/Mountain in MI have some instructors who are great with kids.  Also, I think Snowshoe in WV has a good kids program.  That may be closer.


I agree I am waiting on perfect north to call me back if they dont I will stop by and talk to them in person next time out. I know I can do a road trip however I really don't want to as I need to find someone that can work with her over the remainder of season. I have contacted the cincinnati ski club as well in hopes to get a recommendation from them of someone that's qualified to get her skiing at her potential.

post #10 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmr40 View Post
 

I'd inquire at Perfect North and see if they have any certified instructors.  Chances are they do.  Heck the little hill by home has level 3 instructors...not that I think a 5 year old needs a level 3 instructor.

 

IMO a 5 year old doesn't need an "advanced instructor" to learn to use her edges.  You really just need a competent instructor, not some high school kid.  Shouldn't be too hard to find.

While it does not require a very experienced instructor for a 5yo, it can help.  My friend's 4yo didn't warm up to her ski school instructor last season.  She was a never-ever.  Learned enough to move up to the next novice level.  But she refused to do ski school again the next day.  Instead her mother set up a 1 hour private with one of the Child Specialists.  The girl had fun, got quite good at making pizza turns in both directions, and generally was much happier.

post #11 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by marznc View Post

While it does not require a very experienced instructor for a 5yo, it can help.  My friend's 4yo didn't warm up to her ski school instructor last season.  She was a never-ever.  Learned enough to move up to the next novice level.  But she refused to do ski school again the next day.  Instead her mother set up a 1 hour private with one of the Child Specialists.  The girl had fun, got quite good at making pizza turns in both directions, and generally was much happier.

Disagree. Teaching children is not easy. There are fabulous children's instructors and it does make a difference in skiing development. Teaching children is much more than pizza/French fry. If you are serious about teaching your child to ski, an experienced children instructor is key.
post #12 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by marznc View Post
 

While it does not require a very experienced instructor for a 5yo, it can help.  My friend's 4yo didn't warm up to her ski school instructor last season.  She was a never-ever.  Learned enough to move up to the next novice level.  But she refused to do ski school again the next day.  Instead her mother set up a 1 hour private with one of the Child Specialists.  The girl had fun, got quite good at making pizza turns in both directions, and generally was much happier.

 

Yep.  I was probably a bit quick in what I typed.  In my mind, its more important to have someone who works well/specializes in kids vs. a PSIA level 3 instructor.  With kids, its about motivating them, keeping them interested and being able to put things in terms they can understand.  

post #13 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmr40 View Post
 

 

Yep.  I was probably a bit quick in what I typed.  In my mind, its more important to have someone who works well/specializes in kids vs. a PSIA level 3 instructor.  With kids, its about motivating them, keeping them interested and being able to put things in terms they can understand.  


Thats exactly what I meant by advanced instructor. I do not need some olympic coach but someone that is advanced to deal with kids that have ability above the average 5 year old skier. Finding someone not afraid to let a 5 year old girl rip up challenging terrain. I do not need someone to take runs on the beginners chair to make turns but would like someone to help her improve while going at top speed. In some ways that is tougher to find than an adult instructor. Maybe next time before I pay I ask the head instructor to make a run with us and watch her ski down the blue hill they do nastar races at full speed keeping parallel and in control to where she can avoid the idiots. I guess if ski school doesnt want to help I will take her on public nastar day and pay for her to do a run. She will not make the gates due to not understanding concept but maybe they will see the ability and be able to help her develop.

post #14 of 25
It would be helpful if you developed a better understanding of ski instruction. There is a lot more to good technique than going fast. It is important that you do not 2nd guess a qualified instructor but learn and work with that person.
post #15 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by skier31 View Post

It would be helpful if you developed a better understanding of ski instruction. There is a lot more to good technique than going fast. It is important that you do not 2nd guess a qualified instructor but learn and work with that person.


I agree however the things she needs to improve are being better at making turns at a higher speed. So making turns on the bunny slope arent really productive. I am not trying to second guess anyone however if my gut feeling is that she is improving with the teachers idea on what she needs i am going to change it. She needs confidence on turning at speed and the ability to check her speed and do a hockey stop on the steeper terrain. Turning on the greens and blue cruiser runs is elementary for her at this point.

 

Really I understand the concept of ski instruction however without pushing the skills no progress can be made. Also if the parent is paying the parent should be able set goals for the lesson and what instruction needs worked on.

post #16 of 25
With all due respect, you have a very limited concept of ski instruction. Good luck to your daughter.
post #17 of 25

It sounds like your daughter got a bad lesson, so to make the next lesson "good", you're taking a prescriptive approach. The challenge is that an instructor needs the ability to assess the skier, create a plan, and adapt throughout the lesson to get results. As an instructor, I would never just take someone else's assessment (even from another instructor) and start a lesson based on that. There's just so much potential for misdiagnosis. However, just by mentioning an issue, it will remain visible to me during the assessment. 

 

In your case, it sounds like you need to understand how the lesson will create positive change. Personally, to help give you a good customer experience, I would be willing to ski around with both of you for a run, and then talk you through the areas of development and a high level approach to how we'll create some change. Then, dad, you get to ski on your own for a bit and join us in an hour and a bit. But I would need you to be open to recognizing that what's best for your daughter might be different from hockey stops and braking down a blue. (and if you don't like this approach, you'd be free to not join the lesson.) While not all ski schools will be open to this, I would like to think you can work something out with the manager.

 

Some other considerations that will affect your lesson: 

  • As the lesson cost only $25, you may get uncertified or inexperienced instructors. 
  • The lesson's only an hour. Some kids do full week sessions just to get moderate development. 

 

So... maybe a different program would give greater development. But either way, your daughter will probably get better results if you can work together with the instructor, rather than attempting to dictate outcomes. 

post #18 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metaphor_ View Post
 

It sounds like your daughter got a bad lesson, so to make the next lesson "good", you're taking a prescriptive approach. The challenge is that an instructor needs the ability to assess the skier, create a plan, and adapt throughout the lesson to get results. As an instructor, I would never just take someone else's assessment (even from another instructor) and start a lesson based on that. There's just so much potential for misdiagnosis. However, just by mentioning an issue, it will remain visible to me during the assessment. 

 

In your case, it sounds like you need to understand how the lesson will create positive change. Personally, to help give you a good customer experience, I would be willing to ski around with both of you for a run, and then talk you through the areas of development and a high level approach to how we'll create some change. Then, dad, you get to ski on your own for a bit and join us in an hour and a bit. But I would need you to be open to recognizing that what's best for your daughter might be different from hockey stops and braking down a blue. (and if you don't like this approach, you'd be free to not join the lesson.) While not all ski schools will be open to this, I would like to think you can work something out with the manager.

 

Some other considerations that will affect your lesson: 

  • As the lesson cost only $25, you may get uncertified or inexperienced instructors. 
  • The lesson's only an hour. Some kids do full week sessions just to get moderate development. 

 

So... maybe a different program would give greater development. But either way, your daughter will probably get better results if you can work together with the instructor, rather than attempting to dictate outcomes. 


Metaphor,

 

 

Thanks for the insight. I understand about the fact the parent may not understand or might not know whats best. I just found it interesting that after a couple runs the instructor agreed with my assessment that she has more skill than the average kid her age. She told me that next lesson she would want to focus on the things such as using edges to carve turns and do the hockey stop. I feel as though it was something that could have been addressed in that lesson. Maybe I could try again with instructor and maybe with her willing to work more advanced technique after skiing with her for the first lesson it will work out and I should toss the first as a easy fun time for daughter nothing learned but the instructor did see her ability and next time could have a better lesson.

 

The two major concerns I had were.

 

A. The instructor prior to lesson seemed to discount my assessment of my kids skill level. I get it that most parents are proud of there kid and might overestimate skill level.

B. The instructor told me during lesson that my daughter has a natural ability that  other kids do not have and she encouraged me to have her get into the race program as the quality of instruction is better and my daughter would excel.  With this I am starting to wonder why waste time and money with having her instruct my kid this season if I can find one of the race program instructors to maybe do privates. Enrollment for race program is over so that is not option.

 

 

Again I am only trying to do the best for my kid. I know she is eager to learn, progress and try new things. I may have limited concept of ski instruction however years of athletic experience and I know what good coaching is and you need to push yourself.

 

The way I see it I have a couple options.

 

A. Speak to head of ski instructors at ski area get his/her take on how to proceed.

B. Speak to instructor and try another lesson with the fact she after first lesson agrees the next lesson we work on the technical items I requested. Which she did agree with my assessment.

C. Try new instructor and see if there is a better fit.

 

I think after speaking with the head instructor I should have some better options.

post #19 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmr40 View Post
 

I'd inquire at Perfect North and see if they have any certified instructors.  Chances are they do.  Heck the little hill by home has level 3 instructors...not that I think a 5 year old needs a level 3 instructor.

 

IMO a 5 year old doesn't need an "advanced instructor" to learn to use her edges.  You really just need a competent instructor, not some high school kid.  Shouldn't be too hard to find.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by skier31 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by marznc View Post

While it does not require a very experienced instructor for a 5yo, it can help.  My friend's 4yo didn't warm up to her ski school instructor last season.  She was a never-ever.  Learned enough to move up to the next novice level.  But she refused to do ski school again the next day.  Instead her mother set up a 1 hour private with one of the Child Specialists.  The girl had fun, got quite good at making pizza turns in both directions, and generally was much happier.

Disagree. Teaching children is not easy. There are fabulous children's instructors and it does make a difference in skiing development. Teaching children is much more than pizza/French fry. If you are serious about teaching your child to ski, an experienced children instructor is key.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmr40 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by marznc View Post
 

While it does not require a very experienced instructor for a 5yo, it can help.  My friend's 4yo didn't warm up to her ski school instructor last season.  She was a never-ever.  Learned enough to move up to the next novice level.  But she refused to do ski school again the next day.  Instead her mother set up a 1 hour private with one of the Child Specialists.  The girl had fun, got quite good at making pizza turns in both directions, and generally was much happier.

 

Yep.  I was probably a bit quick in what I typed.  In my mind, its more important to have someone who works well/specializes in kids vs. a PSIA level 3 instructor.  With kids, its about motivating them, keeping them interested and being able to put things in terms they can understand.  

Just to clarify . . . I was responding to cmr40's first comment about whether a 5yo needed an "advanced" instructor.  His (her?) later post is clearer.  I agree that Level 3 is not required.  Some of the younger instructors who were trained at Massanutten are very good with kids of all ages and abilities.  Many small ski areas work hard to make the ski school a draw for locals so it does not require a large resort to find a good instructor for young kids.

post #20 of 25

Hi Ohioskier:

 

I went onto Perfect North's web site and trolled a bit.  Seems like there are quite a few Level 3's at this hill, and a lot of PSIA certification there.  And by the way, PSIA is very serious about children's instruction these days, for upper level certification they require that instructors have a CS1 or CS2 cert - CS is short for Children's Specialist. 

 

Since it is mid season now, it is probably not possible to get her into a racing program nor even a good idea at this point.  She would be playing catchup and the risk is that it wouldn't be a good fit for her starting so late, as she would be a group.  These programs are stratified by age and ability, and she will have the most success starting at the beginning of the season with the other kids.  There will be a lot of sorting out the first couple of weeks.  They want the kids to be skiing with others of similar abilities in order to give them success and have the groups be able to move forward together towards common goals.

 

I teach at a large mountain in New Hampshire that has one of the best race programs for kids in the East (Franconia Ski Club - Bode came out of it) as well as a superb season long kid's program that has evolved over many years call Junior Development (JD).  JD is hugely popular with parents, and there are about 300 kids in it this year.  There are both Level 3's and Level 1's teaching in the program (we have about 85% cert at our hill, unusually high).  Instructors stay with their group for the entire season.  And we have instructors coming back year after year after year to do JD because they just love it. 

 

I'm not asking you to travel 500 miles every weekend for our program.  But I do want you to know that there are a lot of mountains and teachers at those mountains who are quite serious about teaching kids to race, or just become good skiers.  Not a bad idea to do some of that research before the end of this season and people scatter to the winds until next December.  Then you will be positioned well to start her next season.  Hopefully, you can find what you need within close proximity to where you live, and get season passes for yourself and her (and rest of family).  There are knowledgeable and caring people, and you can find them.

 

When you find that good program, leave it in the instructor's hands.  No disrespect intended, but your knowledge base is insufficient to decide what she needs to know in order to achieve a particular proficiency, or decide the terrain match that will be the best place to develop those movement patterns.   You don't know what you don't know.

 

My suggestion to you for the rest of the season is to find out if there is a season long children's program that she could slide into and participate in until spring.  If Perfect North does not have such a program, other mountains will.  Kids are the bread and butter of the smaller hills - that helps sell the family season passes.  She will get a lot from participating and associate skiing with having a pile of fun. 

 

At 5, it is really important for her to have fun if you want her to become a longtime skier.  She will want that dad and daughter time, but she will love skiing with other kids too. She can have both. 

 

As she develops, let her help you decide whether she will become the next Juilie Mancuso, or simply grow up as a good skier who will look back on the time she spent skiing with her dad with great affection. And then want to give her kids the same. 

 

Surfdog

post #21 of 25
Thread Starter 

Surfdog.

 

 

thanks for all the input. I went to ski school and talked with someone there who gave me a name of a level 2 that would be good and also another girl there that was in ski race program and is a junior instructor. As the level two was not there I decided to try out the girl and she fit well with my daughter. We will be working with her to get her ready for next season through private 1 hour lessons. You are right i know what I know and thats not alot on skiing. I know she has potential and I do want to make sure she develops good habits. I think we had a bad teacher for her and now I know more of what I should look for. I will be in touch with someone from race program to get an idea of what she needs to do in order to maximize her time on snow yet have fun and be ready to join the program next season. Also the second instructor was also surprised how good she was for her age.  I guess I am not seeing things through rose colored daddy goggles lol.

 

My main thing is to make sure she has fun and also provide her the foundation for a solid technical skiing fundamentals. Whether she is racing world cups in 10 years or laughing at me trying to keep up on a crazy slope out west is on her. I will provide her the coaching to develop her fundamentals she can choose where to take it.

 

I will keep in mind your ski area might be worth a drive just to change scenery and have different runs.

post #22 of 25

Good plan, Ohioskier.

 

We have quite a few "junior" instructors at our hill, and they generally are a good and popular fit with the smaller kids. 

 

Surfdog

post #23 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by surfdog View Post
 

Good plan, Ohioskier.

 

We have quite a few "junior" instructors at our hill, and they generally are a good and popular fit with the smaller kids. 

 

Surfdog


I think so. I know my limitations and I just want to give my daughter a solid base. I messaged the local ski club and someone from race program will be contacting me directly. I will make sure we have her prepared for next season. I know I should not dictate terrain and lessons but knew something was off with other instructor. Both seemed impress with how good she is for her age so hopefully I can help her by getting her more time and a couple lessons per week until season is out.

post #24 of 25
Thread Starter 

I want to thank everyone for there input and responses. We skied with one of the race program instructors on thursday and she was invited to start the program on Monday which we will do. I have also set up some private instruction with there coaches for after the season ends. There are only two weeks left in the program. I think I am on the right track with her.

post #25 of 25

Good for you and good for her

 

Surfdog

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