or Connect
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ask the Boot Guys › Tecnica R9.8 130 What to expect on the first day.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Tecnica R9.8 130 What to expect on the first day.

post #1 of 14
Thread Starter 

My saga, looking for your counsel.

 

I just had my first day skiing with the new boots, and fear has set in, go figure. I am 6'4" tall and come in at a 235#.  My foot measures 29 on Brannock and C/D width. I purchased shell size 28. Shell fit with toes at all the way forward is 11.3 mm measured with ptex candle and digital caliper. Width is just touching with foot centered. My arch is long and un-remarkable otherwise, my experience tells me that instep is medium to high. Heal ankles and leg thin not sure if they are the chicken variety. Foot bed was swapped out for trim to fit DFP size 10.  Right foot has always been the challenge, in that left has been the easy foot to find comfort. Boots felt snug all over with no hot-spots or other major challenges in shop other than getting in and out of them.

 

Spent the day at Holiday Valley W. NY. Outdoor temps 8F at 1:30PM.  Skied well for me. I signed up for a group lesson, and ended up in a private as their were no other takers in the advanced group. He watched me ski a blue. Then we headed to black were we did pivot slips, falling leafs, picture frame drills. then medium and short radius turns with railroad tracks on the run outs. We talked about long leg short leg, BTE, LTE, hands etc...My stated goal was to help me find my center and I was pleased. 

 

The Boots- I was expecting a few days of discomfort as I wear them in and that is what I got on the hill. Top buckle snug, second buckle very snug, arch buckle loose or off, toe buckle loose or off. While skiing I felt pressure under big toe ball of foot on right foot some on left as well but not so much. I felt like my toes were cramped side to side and over the roof left and right. Some tingly numbness going on in toes, blew it off as first day stuff and it was a pretty cold day.  

 

Back in the lodge, Boots are a bitch to get off, let them come to temp for  maybe 30 minutes before even attempting.  Get them off with some bite and coaxing. Take off my ski socks and look at my feet and Holy Shit my foot is white from the instep forward, toes appear to be stuck together. I rub them and they are cold to the touch like a glass of ice water would feel. No feeling. Ruh Roh not good. Slip on warm dry heavy socks and try to get them warm. My head is spinning. I work on my feet. What have I done? How will I pay the bills? Is this covered under insurance?  Will I lose my toes? Google frost bite read a few tidbits NAH... settle my nerves. After what felt like an eternity, I muster up the nerve to take off the socks, and look again, as I sit there wondering if I should ask for assistance, the socks come off, feet still feel cold to the touch but the color appears to be getting better, I literally watch the pink migrating from back to front. That's a good sign. Warm dry socks back on. I think lets get that circulation going and pace about the lodge till my son gets off the hill. Check a few times, warmth returns. I feel less alarmed. 

 

3 Hour drive home foot color is OK. Feeling is much is better, Still a little tingly in the toe tips. Pop a few aleve, warm shower and off to bed. 

 

Wake up this morning, still tingly in the tips. Left foot also aka "the good foot" is the swollen, I call it adema, Push on the puffy part top of foot and leave a dimple impression. NO PAIN. No discoloration, blisters, etc...

 

The big question for the Boot Guys... Now what? 

 

 

 

 

 

post #2 of 14
Thread Starter 

So Tuesday, the swelling in left foot has dimished almost to the point of being not noticable. Toes still feel funny, however, seems to be gettting better. Worked on my feet 8 hours Monday night, no pain issues. 

 

At this point what are my options?

  1. Return boots and ask for comfy bunny slippers.
  2. Get boot fitter to open up the toe box, I am assuming they have the proper tools / methods.
  3. Give it another go and pray it was just the cold conditions.

 

If you need more info please ask. I will provide pics of feet in question if need be.

post #3 of 14

So it sounds as if the boots are too narrow in the forefoot, but also definitely not fit with any extra space in length.  You measure 29 and bought 28.  Why?
 

Lou

post #4 of 14
Thread Starter 

Lou, Thank you for your response. The short answer to your question is, that I wanted to avoid the boot to big syndrom again. When we did the shell fit, the length numbers and width we / I came up with seemed to be within the guidlines offered here on Epic. Other boots I have owned are 30.5 Lange, and most recently Nordica Speed Machine 14 size 29.5. I tried on a variety of shells in the 28/ 28.5 size and found the Tecnicas to fit my foot best in the intsep, ankle and heel, snug all over.  I'd like to continue this discussion and your guidance is apreciated.

post #5 of 14

few things to be considered, 

 

 

1 toe box/forefoot sounds like it needs a bit more space

2 instep area there is an entrapment cutting off blood to toes 

3 liner needs to break in (but it should't do that)

 

but i cannot see your feet, so i cannot tell if you are in a bad position which is forcing your foot to the front of the boot, or your ankle joint is restricted in dorsiflexion due to either a tight calf or a bony blockage, this could cause you to jam the instep into the top of the boot and also load the forefoot

 

i would head back to the fitter and see what can be done, don't give up on them quite yet, but it sounds as though there is definitely work to be done to get them in a place where you have control and no pain

post #6 of 14
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CEM View Post
 

few things to be considered, 

 

 

1 toe box/forefoot sounds like it needs a bit more space

2 instep area there is an entrapment cutting off blood to toes 

3 liner needs to break in (but it should't do that)

 

but i cannot see your feet, so i cannot tell if you are in a bad position which is forcing your foot to the front of the boot, or your ankle joint is restricted in dorsiflexion due to either a tight calf or a bony blockage, this could cause you to jam the instep into the top of the boot and also load the forefoot

 

i would head back to the fitter and see what can be done, don't give up on them quite yet, but it sounds as though there is definitely work to be done to get them in a place where you have control and no pain

Cem

 

I understand you to say I should have the toe box forefoot evaluated and stretched for a bit more space. My Bootfitter ought to be able to handle that. With respect to the "entrapment" cuting off blood to the toes; how does one IE... me attempt to locate the suspect area? Could it simply be the pressure on the toes and forefoot that cause the loss of blood flow and the results I have described? In knowing my feet, I do have a soft fleshy area that sits proud of the top of feet.It is located below and to the outside of my insteps midway to outside ankle bone. When I dorsiflex that area becomes firm. Please pardon the poor description. Would a pic Help?

post #7 of 14

it could be the area you describe or it could be more central, if the foot is cold then work back up until you find a warm bit, where warm stops and cold begins is often the site of the problem, but yes it can be a bit tricky to find exactly

post #8 of 14
Thread Starter 

Foot Pictures for reference. Marked area is soft flesh area mentioned above.

 

 

 

post #9 of 14
Thread Starter 

I went back to boot fitter today and described my issues. He wants to steam / boil the shell and then " heat mold" with two socks and a toe cap. Any thoughts? He asked me to come back on Tuesday, for about an 1.5 hours. I have some time to ponder.

  1. Run
  2. Go with it.
  3. Try to return boots and go with a different shell.
post #10 of 14

I would do #2, then #3 & #1

 

 

make sure the liner is heated too, and add 3-5mm of foam over everywhere you want more room.   Then CRANK the buckles down as hard as you can, and wait 10 min for the boots to cool down.   Bring your own scotch if the store doesn't have any

 

 

odds are that will solve most issues (scotch AND boiling shells)

post #11 of 14
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mntlion View Post
 

I would do #2, then #3 & #1

 

 

make sure the liner is heated too, and add 3-5mm of foam over everywhere you want more room.   Then CRANK the buckles down as hard as you can, and wait 10 min for the boots to cool down.   Bring your own scotch if the store doesn't have any

 

 

odds are that will solve most issues (scotch AND boiling shells)

What stance? Should I elavate the front, Flex a few times then wait?

 

Thank you!

post #12 of 14

as long as your heel is down AND back in the boot, its fine

post #13 of 14
Thread Starter 

We boiled the shell yesterday. I returned to the fitter as scheduled.

 

Upon arrival the fitter had a pair of Lange RS wide 130 sitting on his bench with a hold label and my name on it. Was kind of a relief to see that as an open option / invitation, in that I thought that I should give that shell another go before modifying the Tecnica R9.8. The Lange shell fit felt to be over one finger, or shall I say a bit longer than the Tecnica. In the forefoot the width was maybe 1mm, I could touch in front  simply be rolling my ankle, seemed reasonable. Liner in the shell, Big Difference side side by side. For my feet, the instep was higher and "better" fit on the Tecnica. With respect to heal and ankle the Tecnica again felt to be a better match to my foot.

 

So... in my mind I am thinking Tecnica for the win on heel, ankle and instep. Lange barely wins on forefoot width and toe-box, not that noticeable. Decision made stick with the Tecnica R9.8 and pray.

 

The process- Liners out, boot boards out, one shell in the water. 10 Minutes to go. Liner on my foot we draw a circle around pressure point on instep as mentioned in previous post. He cuts out a pad to match and sticks it to outside of liner. Short strips were also cut for outside big toe head and sixth toe area. Medium boot sock on then toe cap. Strips applied to toe areas and super thin sock over all. Boot comes out, quickly dried, boot board goes in, liner goes in and foot follows. Not so easy cramming all that stuff into a shell that was already very snug. Managed to get it all buckled up right and  tighter than my foot would of liked. I start thinking I should of brought some Scotch must have Scotch. I flex a few times, and wine like a little girl..... just kidding. Made sure heels are back, thinking there is no place else for them to be...LOL. Step up on the toe block and prepare to wait. I pull a Temp gun out of pocket and Temp the boots meh.. looks to be about 180+-. OK. I wait longer..... pretty rough. Fitter brings glass of ice water, thank you. Temps drop on boot 100 +- He brings out 3 Bags of Ice and places around shell to rapid cool. More waiting, temps get to under 70 and he says done. Boot comes off and into freezer.  I strip off the shenanigans on my feet and rub my poor little piggies and take another glass of water. Slide my thin ski sock on. He brings out the boot and we have a go at it. Boot goes right on, buckle 3 then 4, then back to 1 &2 the instep. Wow... that was easy. Tah Dah.... feels good noticeable difference up front and on the instep. I smile.

 

Next......

 

Hmmm.... supposed to be a foot of fresh snow this morning, maybe I'll head out for a test run.

post #14 of 14
Thread Starter 

The steam stretch did not hold. I am not horribly surprised, given what I have read about the temps needed to make a stretch permanent. Next...

 

I took a day trip to HV NY on Sunday and stopped in at Mud Sweat and Gears first thing. I explained to the fitter what was going on with my feet and asked for help.  After getting on the bench and a quick measure. He states that I am in the size shell he would recommend, describes my ROM as normal, and windlass as some what tight. I am still somewhat ignorant how these two measures effect boot fit. Please enlighten me if you can. Most striking to me was that he actually measured my instep. He says 32, VS my 28 shell and says that explains a lot about the " entrapment". He says I might get a better fit out of the Cochise model for its higher instep. He does not try to sell me a new boot in that he feels he can work with the R9.8 I try the Cochise on and decide that it is not significantly better in the instep or forefoot. The recommendation was to work on the liner tongue. He comments... wow your boots are warm, I had them on the floorboards by the heater in the car on the way up. Thanks for the tip hear at Epic. He cut a bit of stretchy material from over the lower tongue, and ground a bit of the plastic on the top of the tongue. Back on the foot it feels better no more strong pressure on my soft fleshy bits. Next we identify where in the forefoot to begin. He recommends a grind at the sixth toe and at the Big and long middle toe both left and right foot. OK... done. Boots feel better. Take care of business and now over to the hill....

 

On the snow feeling, all is well. Take the 1:30 group lesson again ends up being a private. We work on getting early edge engagement in top of turns. First time I've had an instructor talk about DIRT if I recall correctly duration, intensity, rate, timing. Edge change...thinking 2-4-2  tipping the inside ski. He says that's it... and that is all we worked on. Fun lesson and I skied well.  My quads were on fire towards the end. I asked for his thoughts on my stance and alignment, and explained my boot saga. What I took away with respect to my boots was that he thought I should discuss  fore aft alignment with my fitter, same guy instructor uses, as that he did not see that I was skiing back seat and tell him that he thought I might benefit from a "gas pedal". 

 

Back at the lodge. I bought a small hairdryer to warm up the boot for an easy off.... worked like a charm. Thank you Epic Ski. My toes are cold to the touch. But it is just the toes this time. Woohoo.....progress. I note that my big and second toes appear to have been pressed together pointy on the big and flat tip on the longer second. Looks like more work in the toe area. Ugly pic of my toes right after boot and sock come off just for visual.

 

 

So back to the boot-fitter I go. I stopped at the grocer and picked up some 60 minute IPA for my guy. Thank you. I show him the foot fetish pic and discuss my feelings. He seems to think it is the relatively new liner that is pulling my toes together and prescribes more skiing. i feel like I need some height in the toes for a bit of wiggle room and he suggest an slight grind to the top of boot board. I go for it and it feels good. We chat briefly about gas pedal comment and he explains that alignment is not his best skill he is a fit guy. He says I should make an appointment with the main man to assess my alignment.

 

That is it for know. I'll ski again on my next day off...Valentines / Holiday weekend do not look promising, however Monday may work out.  

 

Your comments and feedback are welcomed.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ask the Boot Guys
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ask the Boot Guys › Tecnica R9.8 130 What to expect on the first day.