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Up- or Down-weighting? - Page 5

post #121 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckT View Post
 

Hey, I am very new school :yahoo:. Never been on straight skis. I do get confused with the lingo, though.

 

Well, hope you will get it all sorted out. New school :popcorn

post #122 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckT View Post
 

Do you, in your carving on groomers, ever jump or push up with your legs? I think you know what and why I am asking.

 

Rarely.

post #123 of 137

Here's a great posting. Too bad stuff like this gets lost in the BS I have been part in producing.....

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post
 

Down-Unweigthing

downunweighting_1.jpgdownunweighting_2.jpg

Down-unweigthing is used in SL and GS as the way of unloading the skis to allow them to cross-under the body for the new turn. It creates a so-called "virtual bump" between the turns. Skier retracts his legs just as if he was going over the bump in the transition phase and extends them into the turn as it was the galley in between the bumps. Combination of down-unweigthing and cross-under movement works well in shallow turns on moderate terrain. It provides for an early edge set and carving with both skis which makes for much faster skiing through the moderately flat sections of the course.

post #124 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckT View Post
 

Do you, in your carving on groomers, ever jump or push up with your legs? I think you know what and why I am asking.

 

On groomers I do it sometimes just for fun but also as a drill. On race tracks I do it quite often because they set courses really tight.

post #125 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckT View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiatansky View Post
 

Chuck what is your specific goal for your next day on the hill? Based on that we can make some concrete suggestions that may lead to improvement.

 

To your question. In general,  modern technique for the turns you want to make - I'm basing this on the video you have posted - will be based on a retraction release with is done by bending the legs. The amount of effort can range from an easy relaxation of the leg muscles to a massive retraction of the legs. Depends on what and how you are skiing.

 

What jamt is saying is that if you retract your legs completely then your arse will hit the snow. Hence there is some force applied to stop that from happening before arse makes snow contact.

My goal is, has been for a long time now, to be able to carve edge-locked arc to arc, to feel the virtual bump, and to bend the skis on command, not just when things somehow line up right.

 

Force stopping butt falling to the snow is clear, but that means pressure develops which is not "unweighting". Maybe I am just hanged up with semantics here.

 

Perhaps a more relevant question is the use of "active extension" or pushing the COM up with leg muscles in dynamic turns. Let's look at the video of Ligety freeskiing that Markojp posted. Clearly his COM moves up and down. I understand a school of thought that there is no active pushing of the legs at the highest level (which Ligety belongs to, safe to say :)). But the only way the COM moves up is to have an upward force stronger than gravity pushing it at some point. This force conceivably can come from the virtual bump, vaulting, or legs pushing. I look at that video over and over and can't say to save my life what pushes Ted's COM up. What is going on?

Assuming you can carve arc-2-arc edge-locked turns, if you want to really feel the virtual bump, carve some arc-2-arc edge locked turns, while skiing down the fall line with the apex of your turns coinciding with when the skis are pointing straight down the fall line, and add the following tactic: play with how you pressure the skis while carrying the turn a little farther around; save some pressure for the last third of the turn using only as much pressure as you need to hold the turn in the middle (by allowing some flexion in the middle third as if you were down unweighting), then apply full pressure at the end of the turn.  Careful!  That VB might give you more air than you planned on.

post #126 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6 View Post

So when you ski powder or bumps do you cross under or over?

Depends on how,fast I'm going, terrain, slope angle, the skis I'm on, etc.... There's not a formula for this stuff in variable terrain and mixed conditions. Imagine that! A non-rhetorical answer!

So what do you see here, Tdk? http://vimeo.com/84133861
Edited by markojp - 1/29/14 at 5:39pm
post #127 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post


Depends on how,fast I'm going, terrain, slope angle, the skis I'm on, etc.... There's not a formula for this stuff in variable terrain and mixed conditions. Imagine that! A non-rhetorical answer!

So what do you see here, Tdk? http://vimeo.com/84133861

 

weighting... un weighting... brushing... steering.... flexing... extending.... pressuring.... platforming.... floating..... flying.... submerging.... 3D..... Chamonix?

post #128 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
 

Assuming you can carve arc-2-arc edge-locked turns, if you want to really feel the virtual bump, carve some arc-2-arc edge locked turns, while skiing down the fall line with the apex of your turns coinciding with when the skis are pointing straight down the fall line, and add the following tactic: play with how you pressure the skis while carrying the turn a little farther around; save some pressure for the last third of the turn using only as much pressure as you need to hold the turn in the middle (by allowing some flexion in the middle third as if you were down unweighting), then apply full pressure at the end of the turn.  Careful!  That VB might give you more air than you planned on.

 

Yes, and use skis with a short turn radius. A good aid is also a ridge running in the fall line. I have seen man made ridges for this purpose on youtube but often natural ones can be found in every ski area. The ide is that at transition you pass over the ridge where you need to flex your legs. If you don't you will be sent off to space.

post #129 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
 

then apply full pressure at the end of the turn.

 

Expert skiers "manage" pressure. Intermediates "apply" pressure.

post #130 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiatansky View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
 

then apply full pressure at the end of the turn.

 

Expert skiers "manage" pressure. Intermediates "apply" pressure.


That's generally true.  Sometimes it's fun to be an intermediate and ski a little recklessly :D.

post #131 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post

 

Sometimes it's fun to be an intermediate and ski a little recklessly :D.

 

Are you an intermediate that writes like an intermediate "thinks" and expert would write or an expert that writes like an intermediate? :snowfight

post #132 of 137

Neither, I'm just a skier who's been skiing for several decades and wants to share some of the joy.  I write how I best think will convey my meaning to whom I am writing.

post #133 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
 

Neither

 

So you are a beginner writing like an intermediate thinks an expert would write? :confused  Not to worry man, I'm just joking. What do you use to confirm what you think is happening with the ski? Video or a coach?


Edited by skiatansky - 1/30/14 at 10:54pm
post #134 of 137

Perhaps I am a frog dreaming he is a fly dreaming he is a skier.

post #135 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiatansky View Post

So you are a beginner writing like an intermediate thinks an expert would write? confused.gif   Not to worry man, I'm just joking. What do you use to confirm what you think is happening with the ski? Video or a coach?

338th post about a guy with almost 15,000 posts, most of them sharing skiing knowledge based upon years of experience.
post #136 of 137
Hey, Chuck, skiers moving with significant momentum on one set of edges are close to the snow as turns complete and HAVE to get farther away from the snow to move toward the other set of edges. Their momentum helps this movement occur. They don't have to push.

To your quest of arc to arc carving: Try gradually pulling your inside foot closer to your butt without removing it from the snow.
post #137 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kneale Brownson View Post

Hey, Chuck, skiers moving with significant momentum on one set of edges are close to the snow as turns complete and HAVE to get farther away from the snow to move toward the other set of edges. Their momentum helps this movement occur. They don't have to push.

To your quest of arc to arc carving: Try gradually pulling your inside foot closer to your butt without removing it from the snow.

 

Great, simple and correct post. This guy knows his butt from the snow it's close to!  And while you are doing this, stay balanced on the inside edge of your outside ski and you will pull yourself into the angles you covet.

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