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Tuning 2005 Atomics

post #1 of 21
Thread Starter 
I normally tune my skis tip to tail but I felt my new Tron XIs and the tips were not as sharp from the factory as the middle and tails were.

Is this because of the dramatic sidecut or do you think it just came out dull from the factory by accident?
post #2 of 21
probably because of the way the base is concave at the tip so they cme off the grinder weird
post #3 of 21
A couple of the shop guys I know like to tune tip to tail & then slightly detune the tips and tails with a gummi stone for more gradual hookup and release. I'd assume this is the kind of thing Atomic is doing - as you noted. Especially with the big shovel. Seems unlikely they'd be sloppy about this sort of thing with a major product launch in the balance.
post #4 of 21
Thread Starter 
My old R11s and most other Atomics came out of the wrapper sharp at the shovel.

I know Atomic is really good at the factory so that is why I am asking about the detuned tips.
post #5 of 21
i'm guessing if there wider in the tip for next year then you want something thats not going to initiate right at the tip so detune for release
post #6 of 21

Piston Bully will know the answer! PM him! I know who he is. I guarantee that his answer will be correct.
post #7 of 21
You definitely don't want the tip to be grabby. As a rule, I always dull the tips and optionally the tails (depends on the ski). But the dull part should only extend from the apex of the ski to just around the transition where the sidecut starts. You want it to bite to get the full sidecut.

If in doubt, look at another pair of the same skis. Maybe they are suppose to be like that.

post #8 of 21
Scalace, just use the moonflex to sharpen them up. BTW I just recieved my new 200 grit moonflex, yea, I have worn out the other one.

I have been tuning my buddies M2Trons for about 5 weeks now. The tips have alway's been as shape as any where else on the ski. What I have noticed lately is that when I wax them, there seems to be a low spot just forward of the tail the skis. I have noticed this from time to time in other skis also. They still ski fine. I will suggest that he have them stoneground early next season once the snow is good. The base seem to be flat other then those spots.
post #9 of 21
Max Capacity,

This is a known issue with Atomics in particular and with many other wider tip/tail skis. They ski fine, and BetaRacer and others have offered that you can unecessarily take off a lot of base/edge material by trying to remedy the low spot issue. Do a search for many threads on this in the past.


I have found it more effective to increase the bevel at the tip/tail by a degree or two, leaving the edge still sharp, rather than detuning the edge with a gummi. (I do use the gummi past the contact point on both ends, however).
post #10 of 21
NE1- You mean the base bevel?
post #11 of 21
NE1, thanks, I'm not to worried about the low spots. I don't tend to over tune. The idea is to take as little off as possible. If any thing I don't take off enough sometimes. One friend hit a few rocks with her Elan M10's, she said they didn't feel the same until, I took the panzar file to them to take off the large burrs in the edges. She's happy now.

As I have said here often, the idea is to make the skis last, for those of us that don't race all we need is good wax and (mostly) sharp edges. A few nicks or burrs don't make a difference for us. The bases don't need to be perfect.
post #12 of 21
Thread Starter 
With a 3 degree bevel it would be almost impossible to make the edges perfect without killing the life of the skis.

I know when I hit a rock then tune my skis there is still a slight ding but no burrs.

I assume this is the case with most people.
post #13 of 21
Last time I had my 154cm Elan HCX Hyper tuned, the shop detuned the tips (despite my clear indication to leave them sharp tip-to-tail) and forgot to deburr the edges on one of the skis. The tune was done for 1 degree base and 2 degrees side.

It took me all of 5 seconds to realize that the skis sucked. I could actually feel the burrs (one of the skis had a "drag" to it), and I really hated the dull tips. I went straight to the rental shop (at the local hill) and asked them to sharpen the tips and clean the edges a little. Fifteen minutes later I was back on properly tuned skis.

Detuning very short and shaped skis defeats the purpose of these skis. It is better to get a lower end ski (with less torsional stiffness) if you want easier engagement and release.
post #14 of 21
My edges are not perfect like they came from the factory but they hold the edge good enought for me. The nicks will be turned out someday.

TomB, isn't it a great feeling to beable to tell when the skis are tuned correctly.
post #15 of 21
Originally posted by Dark Horse:
NE1- You mean the base bevel?
Yes, I mean the base bevel. Thanks.
post #16 of 21
Thread Starter 
I touched up my edges on the M:XI and skied on them Saturday.

I didn't detune the tips or tails and they seemed too grippy in the tails.

If I tried to skid or pull a 180 or 360 skid I would get caught up.

I think the conditions may have had something to do with it.

Does anyone keep the tips sharp for initiation and detune the tails so they release easier?

The tips and tails are so wide that they can't help catch quickly.

They do rip some nice turns though.
post #17 of 21
Originally posted by TomB:
Detuning very short and shaped skis defeats the purpose of these skis. It is better to get a lower end ski (with less torsional stiffness) if you want easier engagement and release.
My first thought exactly!
The shorter the ski and the smaller the radius, the further you can go with sharpening the shovel and tail.

With this type of ski you're pretty much always on the edges anyways and then you want all the sharpness you can get!

In the olden days, with the longer, straighter ski's, you would dull up to 15 or even 20 centimeters on shovel and tail.
But now, with a slalomski? Nope.
post #18 of 21
Thread Starter 
I know not to detune shaped skis and all the other stuff.

I don't think that applies to these new Atomics as the have extreme sidecut and a sharp tip or tail can really mess you up.

Like I said from the factory they were slightly detuned so I assume these new Metrons are supposed to be detuned.

I guess I could call Atomic and ask them.
post #19 of 21
Thread Starter 
I just called Atomic.

According to three different people they come from the factory without being detuned but they should be slightly detuned in the tips and tails or they will be extremely grabby.

They said this is obviously opposite of their other skis.
post #20 of 21

I have stopped using Base of beast and SVST Final cut base bevelers on our Atomics. Because of the
concavity in the tip & tail the foot (glide) of these tools sits too low in the middle of the ski in those areas and you don't get enough base bevel in the tip and tail. I am now using Toko's base beveler which spans the entire width of the ski, although Moonflex and swix diamond files are too wide and won't fit in the TOKO guide. DMT's will fit, but I don't care for them! But it is more important that a file does fit. I tone down the sharpness on all of skis with a Toko finishing block from contact point forward in the tip and contact point backward in the tail. One important step is to put your ski on your vises , base facing away from you, side edge up and use a hard polishing stone ( I use a two sided TOKO, one side coarser, one side smoother) and using your thumb as a guide on the side edge place the stone flat against the base edge and polish off any "hanging" burr off the side edge by running the stone flat on your base edge. I then use the TOKO fininshing block in the same way. The hanging burr created from diamond stoning your side edges can really create havoc. It will make your ski very grabby and thy won't roll on or off edge smoothly. All my Atomics are skiing smoothly and perfectly using this procedure even in high water content snow. They all have a 1 degree base bevel and 3 degree side edge.

I also now set side bevel before base bevel and polish side edge befor base edge. Let me know if you have any questions!

post #21 of 21
Thread Starter 

I'll give that order a shot.

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