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One of the best skills is predicting what other may do on the slopes. - Page 4

post #91 of 115

post #92 of 115

As other have said, its like driving and we have to do it defensively.  People downhill have the "right or way", except if they make a sudden move unaware of a descending skier's/boarder's path...Then its like a kid running out in front of your car...except that you get injured too. 

 

The great thing about the recreation / sport of skiing is that it is open to everyone to try and experienced skiers don't trounce on beginners.  When you see one below you, you accommodate their awkwardness and unpredictability.  We are all enjoying being in the outdoors, in the mountains, in the snow.  In surfing, by contrast, all of the known good areas are surfed by locals or people who know locals or people who are good enough that the locals want to know them.  Beginners are not allowed; they will get harassed and their cars will likely be vandalized if they don't leave right away.  There have been many cases of this and it is well known along our southern Cal coast.  One might say that's because of limited opportunities and the competition for them, but I contend that it is narcissistic thuggery.  Deer hunters don't shoot arrows or guns at each other or vandalize others' vehicles and the chance of seeing, much less bagging a legal buck are about 1/1000th that of catching a decent wave.  LOL, maybe its because we're all carrying lethal weapons!  Seriously though, its all a matter of mutual respect. 

 

 

post #93 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomfifield View Post
 

The saying goes "watch what you say or you may wind up skiing something you wish you hadn't". Besides it is all just for fun and not some kind of competition; unless you are in racing gates.LOL

 

I like that saying, but my problem is no matter what I say my friends still take me places that sometimes I wish they hadn't!  :eek

post #94 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by timber96141 View Post
 

As other have said, its like driving and we have to do it defensively.  People downhill have the "right or way", except if they make a sudden move unaware of a descending skier's/boarder's path...Then its like a kid running out in front of your car...except that you get injured too. 

 

...


At the risk of starting up another argument on this topic when it's already been beaten to death:  I don't think the bolded part of your post is right.  Here's what the skier's code says:

 

2. People ahead of you have the right of way. It is your responsibility to avoid them.

 

Nothing in there about sudden moves or them being unaware that you're coming.  They have the right of way.  Period.

post #95 of 115

4. Whenever starting downhill or merging into a trail, look uphill and yield to others.

post #96 of 115

And if YOU are the one making an sudden and unpredictably wide turn, glance uphill first.  If you don't, and you get hit, it won't be your fault.  But if you get hurt, who cares who had the right of way?  

 

In my town, pedestrians have the right of way.  That's good, of course.  Sometimes, though, they step blithely out into traffic, secure in their legal rights.  But what if the approaching driver is watching something other than you (for instance, the charmingly-equipped pedestrian who already crossed the road)?  You go to the hospital; the driver gets a summons.  The driver should get a summons, but you're in the hospital. 

post #97 of 115
Situation.

Dad and kid stopped in middle of run. Yeah, dead center. I head around them, or start to. They suddenly separate, each heading a different direction, away from each other. I correct course to go behind the kid, across the spot he had just been standing. I am passing behind him, he immediately makes the kind of turn only a small child on short skis can make, right back into my path. I manage to miss him again.

Decided it was time to go home..
post #98 of 115
Right or wrong your still fubr. Any more I just pull over till traffic clears or head for the bar.
post #99 of 115

Quote:

Originally Posted by lakespapa View Post
 

And if YOU are the one making an sudden and unpredictably wide turn, glance uphill first.  If you don't, and you get hit, it won't be your fault.  But if you get hurt, who cares who had the right of way?  

 

In my town, pedestrians have the right of way.  That's good, of course.  Sometimes, though, they step blithely out into traffic, secure in their legal rights.  But what if the approaching driver is watching something other than you (for instance, the charmingly-equipped pedestrian who already crossed the road)?  You go to the hospital; the driver gets a summons.  The driver should get a summons, but you're in the hospital. 


Yup.  Doesn't matter if you're right, you still lose, in either situation.  

 

Some people never seem to grow out of the notion that the universe plays fair and that being in the right somehow protects them, though.  Saint Paul has a crosswalk law, unfortunately more ignored than obeyed, which I try to obey (there's something in there about a safe stopping distance, which is a judgement call, especially in the winter).  But I have had people, almost completely across the street when I pass (in a car) behind them, turn around and make as though to step back in front of me!  I'm in a car that weighs more than 2 tons, traveling 20 - 30 mph.  As you say, I might get a summons.  But they'll still be dead.   I have started trying to leave more space, so as not to encourage this behavior, however.

post #100 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by slider View Post
 

4. Whenever starting downhill or merging into a trail, look uphill and yield to others.


Absolutely.   If you start from a stop (or cross on a cat track, say), that's different. 

 

There was a long, long previous thread parsing all the different possible situations, as well as some that maybe weren't possible.  Or we could just go back to red vs.  gray, and who was at fault there (but let's not).

post #101 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

Situation.

Dad and kid stopped in middle of run. Yeah, dead center. I head around them, or start to. They suddenly separate, each heading a different direction, away from each other. I correct course to go behind the kid, across the spot he had just been standing. I am passing behind him, he immediately makes the kind of turn only a small child on short skis can make, right back into my path. I manage to miss him again.

Decided it was time to go home..

The other day on a fairly narrow groomer with a tree in the middle just above a roll-over. (I've been thinking leaving the tree there was a dumb idea, but in fact seeing it probably slows people down). Anyway, two snowboarders (and what are on their feet is irrelevant AFAIC) stopped just uphill of the tree. As I approach they both start out, one to the left, one to the right. Had to hit the brakes on that one.

 

You made the right call--hitting a kid hurts less than hitting the dad (and that's a joke).

post #102 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowObstacle View Post
 

Quote:


Yup.  Doesn't matter if you're right, you still lose, in either situation.  

 

Some people never seem to grow out of the notion that the universe plays fair and that being in the right somehow protects them, though.  Saint Paul has a crosswalk law, unfortunately more ignored than obeyed, which I try to obey (there's something in there about a safe stopping distance, which is a judgement call, especially in the winter).  But I have had people, almost completely across the street when I pass (in a car) behind them, turn around and make as though to step back in front of me!  I'm in a car that weighs more than 2 tons, traveling 20 - 30 mph.  As you say, I might get a summons.  But they'll still be dead.   I have started trying to leave more space, so as not to encourage this behavior, however.

Best idea--don't start going until they're all the way across. And never stop for a pedestrian on the curb looking to cross a four lane road--just because you're stopped doesn't mean someone else, who might not see them because you block the view, will keep going. I've heard that crosswalks are dangerous--pedestrians have a false sense of security. Especially since most people driving in residential neighborhoods are on the phone I never assume someon will see me and stop. I'll wait on the curb and some well meaning soul will stop--I just wave them on. Who knows if the guy coming from the other direction will stop too.

post #103 of 115
I was in a clinic recently where we had around 6 skiers paired to each instructor. All of us were very experienced so the instrutors were really focused on getting us to read the terrain better, see everything that is around us, whether it's people, obstacles, wind, whatever. Know where you are going and where your next few turns will be. That kind of stuff. Around mid way through the clinic there were 6 of us skiing hard and fast down a very wide (maybe 100 yards?), and somewhat slick trail. No one else was on the trail at the time, just us. It was a bluebird day and there were no visibilty issues at all. Right in the middle of a big GS style turn I got hit full tilt from behind, completely blindsided me. I was knocked clear out of both bindings and flew some 100 feet downhill. I was shocked that I could stand up and wasn't hurt. It turned out that the guy who hit me was one of the younger guys in the class. And this, after an entire morning of the instructors emphasizing to be aware about what you are doing and where you are skiing. The instructor was of course not very happy with this. The kid did appologize and he skied much more tentative the rest of the day - and I kept far away from him. Hopefully he at least learned something from this. But I wouldn't bet on it.
post #104 of 115

Glad you went injured eastern. It's happened to me a few times. Seems always to be a young guy too. Anymore I just wait till it's clear then go. Also do a rear angle check, not that you can see everything behind you. One of "The Over the Hill Gang" 70 yrs or older got hit last week and broke some ribs. Old fella was 82. I guess it's just part of the sport. Too bad some people can't control themselves.

post #105 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldgoat View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowObstacle View Post
 

Quote:


Yup.  Doesn't matter if you're right, you still lose, in either situation.  

 

Some people never seem to grow out of the notion that the universe plays fair and that being in the right somehow protects them, though.  Saint Paul has a crosswalk law, unfortunately more ignored than obeyed, which I try to obey (there's something in there about a safe stopping distance, which is a judgement call, especially in the winter).  But I have had people, almost completely across the street when I pass (in a car) behind them, turn around and make as though to step back in front of me!  I'm in a car that weighs more than 2 tons, traveling 20 - 30 mph.  As you say, I might get a summons.  But they'll still be dead.   I have started trying to leave more space, so as not to encourage this behavior, however.

Best idea--don't start going until they're all the way across. And never stop for a pedestrian on the curb looking to cross a four lane road--just because you're stopped doesn't mean someone else, who might not see them because you block the view, will keep going. I've heard that crosswalks are dangerous--pedestrians have a false sense of security. Especially since most people driving in residential neighborhoods are on the phone I never assume someon will see me and stop. I'll wait on the curb and some well meaning soul will stop--I just wave them on. Who knows if the guy coming from the other direction will stop too.

 

That's why those peds are alive and well in St. Paul. I live in NYC, in my younger days we would going around the block twice to get a 2nd shot at the peds - really fun sport. I am older now, more time constrained so one pass only. In some crowded neighborhood in NYC cars will transect the crosswalk with peds on both side. There is an unspoken understanding between peds and driver - eye contact is a must before crossing in front of a car. Kinda of better alive than dead right. I'm fully aware that I'm just another ped when I'm not in a car so I operate on both side of the fence - carefully.     

post #106 of 115
Thread Starter 
There is a trail that goes around the top of some steeper bowls at meadows called the ridge trail, on the right side there is a berm. Mostly snow boarders hit the berm to get a foot or so of big air and zip blind side across the trail cutting off and sometimes smacking people on the trail. Many of them never think to look to see if anyone else is on the trail.
post #107 of 115
Thread Starter 
Old story but funny sort of; I was skiing with friends through some little trees about the size of Christmas trees, when one of them cut me off. I jumped through a hole in the trees and came upon another tree right in my path. One ski went one side of the tree and the other went to the other side of the tree. The tree bent when I hit it with my you know whats, it dragged through my crotch and left a tree smear on my paints. I went over a small drop off of less than ten feet and lay in pain on the trail. All my friends were laughing so hard, but I was holding my you know whats no laughing at all. The tree smear never fully washed out of my paints.
mad.gif:eek:mad:hissyfit:
post #108 of 115
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingGrump View Post

That's why those peds are alive and well in St. Paul. I live in NYC, in my younger days we would going around the block twice to get a 2nd shot at the peds - really fun sport. I am older now, more time constrained so one pass only. In some crowded neighborhood in NYC cars will transect the crosswalk with peds on both side. There is an unspoken understanding between peds and driver - eye contact is a must before crossing in front of a car. Kinda of better alive than dead right. I'm fully aware that I'm just another ped when I'm not in a car so I operate on both side of the fence - carefully.     


When I was in Montreal Canada the drivers had the right of way so it was stay aware and look before crossing no matter how drunk you were.
post #109 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomfifield View Post


When I was in Montreal Canada the drivers had the right of way so it was stay aware and look before crossing no matter how drunk you were.

In Italy cars have to stop for pedestrians but motorcycles don't. In the Netherlands bicycles have right of way over peds--silent and deadly, and motorcycles can ride on the bike paths. And of course there are the tourists in London getting hit by cars coming from the wrong side.

post #110 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingGrump View Post
 

 

That's why those peds are alive and well in St. Paul. I live in NYC, in my younger days we would going around the block twice to get a 2nd shot at the peds - really fun sport. I am older now, more time constrained so one pass only. In some crowded neighborhood in NYC cars will transect the crosswalk with peds on both side. There is an unspoken understanding between peds and driver - eye contact is a must before crossing in front of a car. Kinda of better alive than dead right. I'm fully aware that I'm just another ped when I'm not in a car so I operate on both side of the fence - carefully.     

 

 

When I moved from California to New York, I was driving once in the right lane on Broadway between 116th & 120th when a pedestrian, eyes fixed on me, stepped off the curb way over in the left lane.  

 

California training kicked in.  I hit my brakes and squealed to a panic-stop just before the crosswalk.  The guy looked at me like What the hell are you doing, idiot??!!??  

 

I felt like a dork from California, which I was.

post #111 of 115

i ski like Babe Ruth stepping up to the plate when i'm changing lines and or making a cut:

i point to into the direction that i'm about to go.

so far, so good. maybe blinkers / turn signal belts are a solution?

post #112 of 115

I felt like a dork from California, which I was............ No worst than a transplant merging from the number 6 Express lane to that very next exit.:duck:

post #113 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomfifield View Post


When I was in Montreal Canada the drivers had the right of way so it was stay aware and look before crossing no matter how drunk you were.

 

Hasn't changed, except now you have to look up to make sure there's not a concrete block falling off the bridge or building above you, too.

post #114 of 115

You just can't assume everyone else is going to avoid you. I ski aggressively but also defensibly when needed. I count 17 times that I glance sideways or behind myself in the video below. I'm especially cautious when "changing lanes" on crowded trails to make sure I'm not traversing into someone else's path.

The problem is, how many skier and riders are confident enough in their ability to be able to look over their shoulder when moving? Looking uphill before starting to move is easy, but doing that when moving is more difficult and it can be scary for beginners AND intermediates. It takes a lot of confidence to take their eyes off of their own line.

 

 

Note: I have never taken a lesson. A lot of this just seemed to be common sense to me.

 


Edited by Fromthenek - 1/30/14 at 5:47am
post #115 of 115

I've been skiing a lot on a run with a lot of guns and a couple of trees in the middle. Approaching them I point to the side I'm planning to pass them on if it's not obvious. I also point if I'm going to take a side branch of a trail.

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