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Doug is looking for some pointers to get his next level. - Page 2

post #31 of 45

TR seems to be thinking along the same lines and my editing crossed his post. 1000 steps really target this sort of balance correction advice. My additional comments covering the theoretical underpinnings and some past experience often gets a little too complex but the bottom line here is the stepping drills will force Doug to adopt a more centered stance. From there the quick short turns will clearly show Doug just how much of a difference a centered stance will make. Good luck and have fun working with Doug.

JASP

post #32 of 45
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherskipro View Post
 

TR seems to be thinking along the same lines and my editing crossed his post. 1000 steps really target this sort of balance correction advice. My additional comments covering the theoretical underpinnings and some past experience often gets a little too complex but the bottom line here is the stepping drills will force Doug to adopt a more centered stance. From there the quick short turns will clearly show Doug just how much of a difference a centered stance will make. Good luck and have fun working with Doug.

JASP


Thanks again.  All the input is super nice to get here.  He will get some help as the season progresses.  Main thing is he wants to get better to enjoy the sport more fully.  We all know the light bulb has to want to change!  Doug is a great guy.  I call him Gazer because one of his hobbies is Star Gazing.  He has an insane scope!

post #33 of 45

A fairly easy drill to help folks get forward is to assume traverse postion and traverse across the hil in a slight arc. Just slightly downhill to uphill so you make a long drawn out shallow  'U" across the hill.  Now  comes the good part: attempt to ski backwards and tracing your arc tracks you created going forward. 

 

 

this all make take some practice, probably not going to get it the first couple of times, but with perseverance, you can lean to make your skis track. This show the "victim" how far forward they really need to get and helps them get the feel of getting on the front of the ski. 

 

JASP, Doug may not be in the backseat as far as we think, but he is definitely turning on the back (from boot heels to tails)of his skis. Literally no engagement of the tip nor  forebody. He is also very very narrow! Which is fairly typical of tail sliders.It is much more difficult to slide your tails around with your skis hip width apart.

post #34 of 45
Thread Starter 

^ Thanks for that one Atomic.  I like that one.

post #35 of 45
I agree A man. I was only pointing out the Dutch angle camera work and how it can fool the casual observer. Good to read your stuff, I use that drill as well.
post #36 of 45
Thread Starter 

Jacques,

I just checked the EpicSki site.  WOW, what a place, and what a wealth of knowledge.  Could you please post this email to the site as a reply to all those who offered advice.

First of all, a quick description to put things in perspective.  I am 61 and have been skiing since my 20s, although only regularly for the last 8 seasons.  I’m in Daleboots (good eye, Whiteroom), and find that they hold my feet quite snugly and are comfortable.  I also have custom orthotics and no lift heals.  My primary ski is a 177cm Volkl AC30, which I think is the most responsive but least forgiving ski I have ever owned.  

I was never very athletic or strong, but managed to earn my blackbelt in Taekwondo on my 50th birthday, which resulted in my having fairly good balance.  Except:  I have been experiencing peroneal tendonitis in my right foot for the last 5 months.  The good news is that it only hurts when I turn left.  The bad news is that I often find myself skiing much more tentatively because of the pain. 

I was telling someone on the chair today that I feel like the perfect example of the Peter Principle, having reached my skiing level of incompetence.  With all these suggestions I have just read, I guess I need to digest and understand them and see what I can absorb into improving my style.

I realize that my biggest problem is having my weight too far back much of the time.  That was the first thing I said when I saw Jacques’ video.  Occasionally, I will find the sweet spot, and things feel great, but then I find myself skiing with my heals. Every few runs my skis will shoot out from underneath me and I go into survival mode.  Not a pretty sight.  I also find myself dragging my poles way too often, and I use that to remind myself that I am too far back and kick myself forward.

I am currently on a Mission from God (thank you Jake & Elwood) and hoping to ski every single day that Mt Bachelor is open.  (I have missed exactly 1 ski day since December 2012, and that was only because my wife dragged me off to Portland, kicking and screaming).  Considering that my aging quads are usually stressed from daily use and little rest, it doesn’t take long for them to start talking to me every day, resulting in more time in the back seat.  My brain knows it, but the body doesn’t always connect.  I realize that getting centered over the skis needs to become natural, not something I have to be constantly working on. 

As for my turns, I have never given much thought to how I finish turns, so that is another area to focus on.

I am going to shelve my ego, print out all the responses in this thread, and read them a few more times.  I will also be picking Jacques’ brain for information on some of these drills that were mentioned.  (I have no idea what 1000 steps or 1000 shuffles are).  Skiing on just the outside ski is something I worked on just a bit in the past, and that sounds like it will be worth revisiting too.

Thanks to all for the great feedback.

Doug

post #37 of 45
Thread Starter 
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  • KevinF
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Essentially, instead of riding your skis around in an arc, you are literally stepping from ski to ski while turning. You start from a traverse (although if you're good you can start from standing still) and you alternately lift each foot into the air. The only way you will ever turn is if you cross-over your skis and start engaging your new inside edges. Each skis' edge is only engaged for a brief period, but that's enough to get them turning.

Simple to describe, hard to do. Practice this one on the bunny hill until you get the hang of it!
 
 
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  • Tom Dew
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1000 steps is stepping from one foot to the other while your are gliding on your skis. Beginners may make their first turns by walking stepping around to make a turn. As a skier advances make steps while traversing, then make a few steps while in a turn, and finally being able to begin stepping (marching) anytime or all the time on skis. The exersise has many uses.

To find your best stance fore and aft. If a skier finds they cannot begin stepping it may be because they are in the "backseat". If the skier brings their upper body over their feet they are then able to begin stepping.

It is good for edging. As you step during a turn you must put the ski down on edge or it will slide out from under you.

If my skiing doesn't feel right I begin stepping around turns. This lets me know when I am in the correct stance.

It has many other benefits but this is a start.
post #38 of 45

In non instructor/non technical turns...even I can see - Doug, you're sitting back.  Your weight is on the tails of your skis.  There ain't no money there.  The money is in the shovels.  Get your weight forward, downhill whatever. it's about balance and yours is too far aft.  (that's a nautical term)

 

The slopes in the video do not appear to be very steep.  I am guessing Doug tends to look less good as things get steeper.  I bet his tips cross in the moguls.  Why, because he is sitting back.

 

New boots, ha.

post #39 of 45

If Doug were skiing with me and asked me for tips, I would tell him to close his ankles (to get him out of the back seat) and to tip his skis while doing so, may help to concentrate on tipping the inside ski to get the outside ski tipped, or may not, worth a try.  I expect, once he started doing that (tipping his skis while not in the back seat) he would be needing some anti-banking drills (see other thread).  For now I would not give him too much new stuff to do at once.

 

Maybe his boots are a little stiff, but even if that were so, once he starts engaging his edges and making some real turns, it may well be that his boots won't be too stiff for him to bend his ankles, in fact he may need extra support.

 

EDIT: I'm not instructor, just a fellow skier.

post #40 of 45
Thread Starter 

I got Doug working the 1000 steps drill, and outside ski only with inside ski shovel down.  Just those two drills.  He can feel the change.  Gonna' take some time.

He can ski any pitch.  That's never been an issue for him.  He wants to learn to make some pure round carves.  These drills will get him on his way.

 

Thanks again to all who provided some excellent advice.  Be good all!

post #41 of 45
Didnt read all the advice here... If you look at the snow spray, it is only from the tails of the skis, which is because his entire body is well behind his knees and welll behind his boots at all times. All he can do is slide the tails from side to side, without confidence.

What he needs to focus on is to get the entire ski to engage, especially the tips of the skis at the begining of the turn
1. Feel the front of his boots rather than the backs, all the time
2. Bend forward a little, bring the shoulders over the toe piece of the bindings... At all times

Get him to ski a little without poles, with the hands locked behind his back. I don't mean using cuffs but just interlock his hpfingers so he can unlock them in an emergency to regain balance...

Then with the hands on the front of his knees.

Braquage is good, simply sliding sideways - if he's back, the skis will slide backwards rather than strait and balanced down the hill, also falling leafs are good here (while in braquage, bring body forward to get tips down, then back to get tails down and so on - find all extremes for balance).

Then get him to turn more, just keep the skis turning until they are across the hill

Then counter-rotation

Then angulation

Then your local masters league smile.gif

Cheers
Edited by razie - 1/20/14 at 7:22am
post #42 of 45
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by razie View Post

Didnt read all the advice here... If you look at the snow spray, it is only from the tails of the skis, which is because his entire body is well behind his knees and welll behind his boots at all times. All he can do is slide the tails from side to side, without confidence.

What he needs to focus on is to get the entire ski to engage, especially the tips of the skis at the begining of the turn
1. Feel the front of his boots rather than the backs, all the time
2. Bend forward a little, bring the shoulders over the toe piece of the bindings... At all times

Get him to ski a little without poles, with the hands locked behind his back. I don't mean using cuffs but just interlock his hpfingers so he can unlock them in an emergency to regain balance...

Then with the hands on the front of his knees.

Pivot slips are good, simply sliding sideways - if he's back, the skis will slide backwards rather than strait and balanced down the hill, also falling leafs are good here

Then get him to turn more, just keep the skis turning until they are across the hill

Then counter-rotation

Then angulation

Then your local masters league smile.gif

Cheers


Thanks Razie.  Yes...Masters League! ;)

post #43 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques View Post
 


Thanks Razie.  Yes...Masters League! ;)

Sure! :)

 

i changed my mind on pivot slips - i don't like the idea that he needs to pivot to slip on both sides, I updated to braquage, which is what I usually call it anyways - i don't care how he turns there :) preferably a brushed carve sort of thing, i.e. don't just twist the skis but manage pressure on the skis - which is exzactly what the falling leaf teaches him: front to get the tips pointing down then on the tails to start/continue the skid until the skis are pointing the other way...

 

i think it's more valuable that way - does that make sense?

post #44 of 45

i just read Doug's email.

 

being aft with the back so strait puts a lot of stress on your quads and tendons and lower back and everything - think that you are supporting your entire body with those muscles and tendons. all the time - that is so tiring...

 

think about the concept of "skeleton stacked" i.e. support your body more with the skeleton than muscles. Use the muscles to move dynamically and react, which gives them chances to work AND relax. For that to happen, you need to get taller (never thought I would recommend that) and bend forward at the waist. Use the front of your boots for support instead of the backs of them - it is MUCH easier and LESS painfull and puts you in a much more balanced position on the skis.

 

if you have pain in your lower foot, try skiing with teh boots undone - that will make you ski more balanced as well, a very good drill. a possible obstacle to staying forward may be boots too stiff or too tight. Make sure the top strap is somewhat tight but not very, while the top two buckles are loosely closed, NOT TIGHT. feel the difference there and decide what let's you balance better. this paragraph is probably the best advice i can give you.

 

given your age as well, you need to learn to ski as efficiently as possible, soliciting the least work from your body. I can't prescribe a path to get you there, but the keywords are:

- skeleton stacked - use less muscles and tendons for constant work

- stay forward and bend more of the skis to help you

- tip the skis on edge with the ankles - it is the most efficient

- skid in balance and control on blacks - no problem with that

 

cheers

post #45 of 45
Thread Starter 

Thanks Razie.  That was constructive!    Be good now!

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