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Video Challenge Two - short turns, blended and korean style - Page 2

post #31 of 260

    Let's say I post a video of myself skiing and it's crappy--as in, I'm mediocre at best. Does this waive my ability to post on certain topics or to even post at all? Who determines this---the best skier here? Who determines who's the best skier here?

 

     zenny


Edited by zentune - 1/17/14 at 6:10am
post #32 of 260

  I thought it sounded like fun but, didn't realize it was to prove anything... that sounds less fun. I suppose if we weren't just getting started on our season here I would have played along. A frustration for me is I am usually the shooter and when the shootee the footage is usually spirited away to some far corner of the division for their MA purposes(more critique than commendation I am sure)  where I never get to see it :( I now tell people I only agree to be videoed if I get to see it too.

  I know I'm not perfect either But, maybe we should have a thread where we prove we can speak in complete sentences and punctuation? My apologies to anyone for English is not native you are exempt. That would certainly elevate the discourse.

post #33 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by zentune View Post

    Let's say I post a video of myself skiing and it's crappy--as in, I'm mediocre at best. Does this waive my ability to post on certain topics or to even post at all? Who determines this---the best skier here? Who determines who's the best skier here?

     zenny

The bigger question is would Julia overlook my age and skiing flaws, and ask me out?
post #34 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by zentune View Post

    Let's say I post a video of myself skiing and it's crappy--as in, I'm mediocre at best. Does this waive my ability to post on certain topics or to even post at all? Who determines this---the best skier here? Who determines who's the best skier here?

     zenny
No, but your keyboard "expert" status earned with 1800+ posts will be recalibrated to match your video.

If someone won't take advice from a golf coach that can't swing a club for shit why should they take advice from a skier that can't ski for shit?
post #35 of 260

While I like the idea, I think a general "show off" thread might be easier to get going rather than posting specific styles/tasks.

just my 2c

post #36 of 260

I think that video provides a valuable reference point in the world of an Internet skiing forum.  You may or may not choose to post video, but I have respect for those that do.  For me, I find more value in comments from skiers whose skiing I have either seen in person or have seen their video.  I'm definitely in the camp that feels that in order to coach at the highest level you need to be able to perform the movements you are coaching (or at least have performed them at some point your career).

post #37 of 260

I've never heard the term "Korean short turn" - is it a reference to this?

post #38 of 260

For those who are in the "those who can't do, can't coach" camp, I remind you of this man: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%A9la_K%C3%A1rolyi

 

There doesn't seem to be any reference in the above article that Bela Karolyi was ever anything other than a failed gymnast (there's a reference to having failed a mandatory gymnastics skill test), and yet he was responsible for having trained a long series of highly successful gymnasts...

post #39 of 260

BTDT status helps but doesn't automatically make you a great coach/instructor

post #40 of 260
well gavlar, i guess youll have to just look at my avatars for now. smile.gif

im more inclined to give the benefit of the doubt to others, personally. and fwiw, many of my 1800+ posts are in tuning and maintenance (i used to do work as a race tech), where i havent posted any pics or vids of the edges which i say ive mirror polished biggrin.gif

zenny
post #41 of 260

LIAR!!! pics or it never happened!
:D

post #42 of 260

Epicski has wrestled with this topic over many years. I wrote a long and detailed response to Josh and TDK but discarded it. The topic here isn't the importance of video proof of any of our qualifications and my participation here is only because one of you brought my name up as an example of someone who doesn't post videos of their skiing. My response was intended to champion the idea of the value of well written communications and how video often fails to communicate those concepts. Why do I say that?

I've shot, directed, and produced four (or maybe it's five) half hour long ski films and doing so introduced me to the idea that I needed to learn how to use film effectively. A couple of years of film school (on line) made me realize the camera only expresses what the director / cameraman want it to express. The role of the director is deciding what each camera shot will communicate and thus contribute to the story being told. That becomes the basis for how they instruct the cameramen to shoot every scene. The editor pieces all of this together and makes that story come to life. Even point and shoot ski video footage tells a very specific story and expresses only what the operator wants to say. Beyond that creative aspect, those 30-60 frames per second fool the brain into thinking we are seeing more than what is actually on the screen. We add a third dimension (depth) and smooth over the stop action into a flowing 3D version of what the camera actually captured. It's an illusion though and a great series on National Geographic (Brain Games) is all about how we impart our own unique reality onto those videos and how those realities are really nothing more than illusions created by our brains.

That is exactly why I don't place much value on video here at Epic, or anywhere else for that matter. Subjective interpretation of that visual medium leave too much room for misinterpretation. I'm more a show me in person kind of guy. Like Josh I also feel strongly that to be taken seriously I must show the flag / walk my talk / show that my skiing skills match my words. Not on film though. As an example here is a photo of me skiing powder. Looks deep doesn't it. In reality only a few inches of new fell and by squatting down so my ass was touching my bindings and plowing into a drift, snow blew up and over my shoulders and the illusion of me skiing in bottomless powder was created.

Don_edited.jpg

 

It's a pretty good cover shot but should demonstrate just how easy it is to fool a viewer. Video is no different fellas. Especially nowdays when CG manipulations make reality on the screen even more of an illusion.


Edited by justanotherskipro - 1/17/14 at 12:31pm
post #43 of 260

So can we put aside the topic of the value of video when it comes to offering an opinion here. It smacks of elitism and exclusionary attitudes. The power of a chat site like Epic is in what gets written here, and I see value in everyone's opinion. I may not agree with them and I often suggest some of their assumptions are perhaps worth reconsidering but saying they cannot participate on the site is patently absurd! We all have a lot to learn and sometimes the most meaningful truths come from the mouths of babes.

post #44 of 260
And honestly, I'm just too darn busy to shoot anything for the next 3-4 weeks. I can dig up some old teley video if it'd help my street cred though.smile.gif
post #45 of 260
Thread Starter 

this was not trying to be elitist. this is trying to get more people to video themselves.

 

IMO skiing is expression of skiing knowledge, race kids who literally learn to ski at high level at a young age, not with standing.

post #46 of 260
To what end? My cred is doing quite fine without videos.
post #47 of 260
I honestly don't see why people are getting so bent out of shape about this. If you don't want to post video or don't see value in doing so, then feel free not to. Those who think video matters or want to have fun with Josh's challenges are similarly free to do what they want.
post #48 of 260
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherskipro View Post

To what end? My cred is doing quite fine without videos.

 

 

well that cool but in my mind the people who are going to post video can prove their either the real dela or not.

 

no idea what people are so afraid, I mean if you can ski so well on your worst day it must not be that hard to get video up. 

post #49 of 260
Some may want to keep their online persona separated from real life, for whatever reason...
post #50 of 260
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jzamp View Post

Some may want to keep their online persona separated from real life, for whatever reason...

 

 

well then their online persona is kinda of worthless and fake would you not say? 

post #51 of 260
No worries Josh, we get to the same place. I just am very suspect of video proving anything. BTW did you enjoy the pow pic?
post #52 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherskipro View Post

That is exactly why I don't place much value on video here at Epic, or anywhere else for that matter. Subjective interpretation of that visual medium leave too much room for misinterpretation.

You cannot possibly believe that...as a professional in the business, surely you should know these reasons why video is so invaluable:

1 - video, shot for MA purposes, doesn't lie
2 - video, shot for MA purposes, show's movements that are very difficult if not impossible to see otherwise
3 - video, shot for demonstration purposes, is used by ski federations across the world as a teaching aid
4 - video, taken of athletes competing in the park, race, and mogul courses is MA'd across the world and used as a teaching aid
5 - coaching programs spend many thousands of dollars on Dartfish and video capture hardware because of the huge value video brings to their programs

Josh's video is a great example of why video works so well. You can compare Josh's version of Korean short turns to the real thing to see the similarities and differences. Slow both down and you can see the actual movements each are using to make their turns. Video is not only valuable but indispensable if you really want to know what a skier is doing.
post #53 of 260
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherskipro View Post

No worries Josh, we get to the same place. I just am very suspect of video proving anything. BTW did you enjoy the pow pic?

 

 

it impossible to fake video.

 

pictures I am well aware how to fake powder pictures.  then again I also know you need tons of snow to get certain pictures.

 

kinda of hard to say this is 3 inches of snow right? its actually 36

 

 

how about this looks like a foot right? actually 48 inches of new

 

 

and if your using CG manipulations to make ski videos i suggest going to work for pixar....

post #54 of 260
Thread Starter 

I just also wanted to be clear the koreans short were done on doulbe fall line hill, that was causing me to retract from right to left and extend from left to right. My fatally flaw I guess.

post #55 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Matta View Post
 

 

and if you're using CG manipulations to make ski videos i suggest going to work for pixar....

 

 

 

:D 

post #56 of 260
Fellas, I have 5000 hours of ski footage. Some for MA, some for fun, and some for sale. You don't have to believe me about the 1001 camera techniques that we used to shoot that stuff but I know what I know and if video allows you to see details you otherwise would miss great! I don't miss those details, it's a function of exposure (pun intended) to all that type of work. MA is an on the hill, on the fly skill that needs to happen in real time. And no camera can capture what our eyes can out on the snow. And after all isn't that where all of this matters most?
post #57 of 260
I am leaving now, since this drift adds very little to the original topic.
post #58 of 260
I once argued that one can coach even if one can't ski properly and Is till believe that... To some extent though. I think if one doesn't have the comprehension about say the range of movement it takes to achieve somethig, or the internal feelings whent rying something new, one is very limited in teaching that...

At the same time, what Jamt said. I think one's skiing can certainly serve to some extent as credentials, so in lieu of some other certifications, must do... I think Josh's initiative has merit! I see a lot of talk here, but zero videos... What's the big deal?

If by koreans you mean short flexed carved turns, here's a recent video of moi, starting at 1:23 http://youtu.be/B5YQGguzrns ignore the funny upper body - that day I was working on keeping my arms abnormally high... As evidenced by funny result of my left arm looking funnier than usual... It's funny what you think you're doing vs. what you are actually doing, eh?
post #59 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherskipro View Post

I don't miss those details, it's a function of exposure (pun intended) to all that type of work.

You must have bionic eyes with a high speed setting because you are obviously better at this then the many WC coaches using video on a daily basis.
Quote:
MA is an on the hill, on the fly skill that needs to happen in real time. And no camera can capture what our eyes can out on the snow. And after all isn't that where all of this matters most?

You got part of this one right. MA is best when done on the hill. You blew it when you started to talk about cameras. HS cameras are far superior at "seeing" movements that occur during fast action sports like skiing. The top programs have multiple wireless cameras set up on the slope. The athletes are recorded as they pass and the whole shebang is captured in real-time on a PC at the bottom of the course. The athlete and coach review the footage, often in slow motion, at the bottom and then the athlete heads back up for another run. This nearly instantaneous feedback loop leads to rapid improvement.

When they really need to know exactly what is happening they film with hardware like the Sony NEXFS700UK.
post #60 of 260
I wish Josh could get some traction with this idea. Having video expected in this one thread would give it a different feel from other MA threads. It would be great to have a range of proficiencies too, not just those who have it dialed in. Heck, I'd play if I had someone to film me.
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