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Brushed carve/skidded turn in this video?

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 

Hi,

 

It's less than 5 days until I get to go on my first real ski trip this year so I'm looking at some videos for inspiration on what to practice.

 

In the "Cream of skiing skills" video below I'm wondering whether the skier that starts at 1:29 (I think it is JF Beaulieu) are doing "pure carved" turns or if they might in fact be "brushed" or "skidded" in the beginning of the turn? I don't know the exact terminology but hopefully you can get a sense of what I mean. The turn radius seem really tight and I'm wondering how he does that.

 

The reason I ask is that they look like a lot of fun and I aspire to some day be able to do something like those turns.

 

Thanks in advance for any help!

 

Here's the clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wop_Zc0x1Sc&feature=player_detailpage#t=89

post #2 of 24

If you are talking about the skier in the white jacket (that ends at 1:29), I would call those stivots. They are skidded turn entries with a carved turn exit. The skid is caused by rotation of the lower body and thus is not a BC as the term is commonly defined. If you are talking about the skier in the dark jacket that starts at 1:29, it's hard to tell if there is any skidding going on. For arc to arc carved turns we look for pencil thin tracks through the entire S shaped sequence of turns. In this snow, the skis are sinking enough to leave wider than pencil thin tracks. So one could argue that these are skidded and BC turns. But if one did, one would be picking nits. It's all good no matter what the label is. I would look elsewhere if I was looking for a clip demonstrating a skidded parallel turn.

post #3 of 24

With a bit more progressive flexing and extending I think both of them could leave their skis in the snow during the high C.  HOWEVER (this is a big however) I believe and saw that they can.  We cannot confuse intent with technique.  Sometimes being too progressive can get boring and it is fun to test our balance and still rip.  I didn't see a 'stivot'.  You need to pivot to do that which means that you are not changing direction, just sliding until it is time to change direction.  I did see the first guy skipping the high C, but wasn't a pivot in my opinion.  His skis were just simply off the snow as he crossed-over.  

 

Edit:  I take that back.  He did make a couple of stivots around 1:21 after he made some very cool white pass turns.  Both of these dudes are great skiers, no question. 

post #4 of 24

I've watched this clip many times over many seasons. Although the resolution's fairly low, it appears to me that there's no skid in JF's turns at 1:29-1:35. Because his skis leave the snow at the top of the turn, I'd call it more of a "leaper" turn than a textbook carve - I'd also call it technically awesome and wouldn't worry so much about the label.

 

My impression of the video is that it demonstrates advanced exercises, tactical approaches and challenges rather than a textbook way of skiing. JF Beaulieu is amazing! I would pretty much drop everything any day to ski with him at my local hill. 

post #5 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metaphor_ View Post
JF Beaulieu is amazing! I would pretty much drop everything any day to ski with him at my local hill. 


You can train with him and Sebastien Michel in NZ! That would be amazing if I had a spare $15000!  One of my friends trained for L3 with him and she passed and loved it.

post #6 of 24

Jean Piere thought I'd put up the vid directly on this thread.

 

post #7 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by jthski View Post
 


You can train with him and Sebastien Michel in NZ! That would be amazing if I had a spare $15000!  One of my friends trained for L3 with him and she passed and loved it.

 

Yeah, that's as much as my grad degree... which is why I'd drop everything to ski with him at the local bump ;) I'm sure it would be a blast to spend 6 weeks in NZ. Also heard good reviews about the program

 

I did take the level 3 course with Sebastien Michel at Whistler, and he really helped me understand skiing more deeply. I'd vouch for him being great.

post #8 of 24

   Yeah, JF Beaulieu is pretty rad for sure! He has lots of what we call TM (Total Motion)--that is, he's never statically "posed" in any one position. Fun to watch Thumbs Up

 

    zenny

post #9 of 24

zentune, I've never heard of total motion as a buzzword, but I like it. We talk about mobility and movement, but total motion might be a nice cue for racers. Is there a specific ski school/association that uses this cue? 

post #10 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metaphor_ View Post
 

zentune, I've never heard of total motion as a buzzword, but I like it. We talk about mobility and movement, but total motion might be a nice cue for racers. Is there a specific ski school/association that uses this cue? 

 

  Sure. It's called the "Melhusian Institute for Higher Edge Angles", or MIHEA :D. But seriously, it's a phrase my old coach, mentor, and fellow trainer (Tom Melhuse) coined long ago. It just alludes to idea that skilled skiers/racers continually move dynamically (in the "time domain" and "direction domain" as Jamt likes to say), seeking to avoid static positions as they move through their turns.

 

  We are continually bombarded with still images of a skier or racer with their hip on the snow deep in the throes of a rad turn and I think a lot of lay people misconstrue this as "the position" (without considering how said skier got there),  but as we all know this is not the case...Total Motion. :) 

 

  Then there's GSMS :cool.......

 

  zenny


Edited by zentune - 1/14/14 at 8:16pm
post #11 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by zentune View Post
 

 

  Sure. It's called the "Melhusian Institute for Higher Edge Angles", or MIHEA :D. But seriously, it's a phrase my old coach, mentor, and fellow trainer (Tom Melhuse) coined long ago. It just alludes to idea that skilled skiers/racers continually move dynamically (in the "time domain" and "direction domain" as Jamt likes to say), seeking to avoid static positions as they move through their turns.

 

  We are continually bombarded with still images of a skier or racer with their hip on the snow deep in the throes of a rad turn and I think a lot of lay people misconstrue this as "the position" (without considering how said skier got there),  but as we all know this is not the case...Total Motion. :) 

 

  Then there's GSMS :cool.......

 

  zenny

 

I like the visual I get from 'total motion".  Would you mind briefly and simply describing in skiing terms what it takes to have this?   (not a test, I just don't want to hijack your thoughts). 

post #12 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:

I've watched this clip many times over many seasons. Although the resolution's fairly low, it appears to me that there's no skid in JF's turns at 1:29-1:35. Because his skis leave the snow at the top of the turn, I'd call it more of a "leaper" turn than a textbook carve - I'd also call it technically awesome and wouldn't worry so much about the label.

 

Yes it is awesome! Ok, he doesn't skid but what I would like to know is if there is some rotation in the beginning of the turn (maybe while he is unweighted/airborn) that helps him to create that tight turn radius? Or he is he riding the turn radius of the ski and bending it enough to create the turn?

post #13 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jthski View Post
 

Jean Piere thought I'd put up the vid directly on this thread.

 

Thanks! I've never seen the longer version!

post #14 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanPierre View Post
 

 

Yes it is awesome! Ok, he doesn't skid but what I would like to know is if there is some rotation in the beginning of the turn (maybe while he is unweighted/airborn) that helps him to create that tight turn radius? Or he is he riding the turn radius of the ski and bending it enough to create the turn?

 

Sometimes, but when you are this dynamic the femur rotation isn't so much at the beginning of the turn to create skid but more at the end - that's what gets him to cross over.  He doesn't have the time to tip and fall into the turn, but a few more inches at the end will topple him to a catch.   I said sometimes because sometimes you get ejected too far upside-down and to gain engagement early you need to twist in the air slightly.  Think very small air rotary at the beginning and using big muscles at the end. 

So says "Confusedcious".  lol  

 

Edit:  If you think about it - what needs to happen with his new outside leg to keep contact with the snow if his COM is toppling downhill as his skis are still turning up hill? 


Edited by bsofbos - 1/15/14 at 12:10am
post #15 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsofbos View Post
 

 

I like the visual I get from 'total motion".  Would you mind briefly and simply describing in skiing terms what it takes to have this?   (not a test, I just don't want to hijack your thoughts). 

 

   From high to low c, and the transition too (be it flexed, extended, or what have you), we are continually "moving through positions" in the fore/aft, up/down, and lateral--never remaining parked or posed in just one single position. Another way to think of this is adapting to and matching the terrain we are skiing on. Ultimately I suppose it all comes down to pressure control no matter what our intent (turn intent) and that different intents will all still require TM in varying degrees (you get the idea)...

 

    zenny

post #16 of 24

JF uses lots to "loading and deflections in the clip".  They are carved high performance turns but he steers his skis with a high amount of edging (lateral movement) and very slight pivoting.

post #17 of 24

he's a hot skier and I like the total motion concept.  JF is skipping high-c for whatever its worth

post #18 of 24
"Total motion" or "continuous motion" are terms I've heard throughout my PSIA training, which began in 1969.
post #19 of 24
ok well, maybe tom didnt coin tm but its a concept we still use to this day. smile.gif

bts, yeah hes skippin it...looks like fun! biggrin.gif

zenny
post #20 of 24
I only mention it with regards to the question about "brushing". Not much brushing happening. I agree it's more like a stivot.
post #21 of 24

IMO its being done mostly though tipping and pressure . looks pretty damn carved to me. 

post #22 of 24

I don't think they are brushed and a stivot requires his body not changing directions.  His body does change directions and his skis rotate slightly and begin to tip in the air so when he lands it's a full-on carve.   Those are fun turns to make and sometimes necessary to keep your line during short turns when you are moving that fast.   I can almost guarantee it is a matter of DIRT vs. ability. 

post #23 of 24
He is not carving his skis until they are close to pointing down the fall line. Before that they are disengaged. Call it whatever you want but high c is not carved nor brushed, it is pivoted and he smoothly slips into edge engagement around the fall line.
post #24 of 24

When I talk about continuous motion I always use the pedaling a bicycle analogy as it's so effective.

 

The way so many people ski is like pushing down on the left pedal, stopping, than pushing down on the right pedal and stopping.  It's very easy for a student to understand that in pedaling a bike there is continuous motion.

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