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Moonflex Diamond Stone question

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 

After consuming and absorbing as much as I am able from posts and vids I am in the process of putting together my first tuning kit. 

I have a pretty good sense of what I need but have a question about the use of diamond stones in place of panzer or other rough cut files.

All my skis have a 1/3 bevel set at the shop. Assuming that I do not want to change that by file, can I dispense with the purchase of files and use Moonflex from 100 to 1500 grits as the sole tool for maintenance and touch -up. I assume that the finer grits would work in the absence of any rock or other damage. But if I have to fix this, especially on the base edge, will the 100/200 Moonstones have sufficient cutting power? I understand that the base edge should be left alone to the extent possible so as not to change it. As a newbie I would prefer to use a cutting tool that is less robust, but not if it is too feeble to do the job.I would use the files in the bottom and side guides to preserve the angles.

Finally, once I work through from the 100 grit up to 1500 Moonflex files, and then knock off any burs with a blue gummy, is there anything more to be done? I have read that some use an Arkansas stone for final pass.

Thanks

D1

post #2 of 17
If you are racing that may be the correct setup.

However if you are not its overkill

I use a 200 moon flex to freshen the side edges up, never touch the bases

But this is for tahoe, the east coast may be different
post #3 of 17

I use a file for any big nicks, and then a yellow 400 moonflex.

 

I use only the yellow 400 moonflex for daily touch-ups. I don't deburr, detune, or use anything finer than the 400.

post #4 of 17
At some point your going to want to use a file. Diamonds are great for maintenance, and you can remove a fair amount of material with black and red moonflex. However, you're assuming your bevels are the same from the shop as the guides you're planning on buying, but if they aren't, you'll want a file to set them properly. An Arkansas stone works well to take down the burr on the base edge because it cuts and polishes at the same time. You could also use an ceramic stone or a 4-600 diamond. You can use fine sandpaper wrapped around a file it you have nothing else.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
post #5 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmoothRides View Post

 However, you're assuming your bevels are the same from the shop as the guides you're planning on buying, but if they aren't, you'll want a file to set them properly. 

Good point. So I should get a file to set the edges to the guides and then maintain with the Moonflex stones. 

Suggestions for the files for that job?

post #6 of 17

In the east the edges actually get dull after skiing boiler plates for a couple of days. A file is required to bring back the sharp edge.

 

The diamond stones are more for deburring before filing and polishing after filing. A panzer is a overkill unless you have a delicate touch.

 

If you are afraid of taking too much off with a file – try starting with a ‘smooth’ file. It will take much less off than a ‘bastard’ or ‘2nd cut’ file. Use the files with a side edge bevel guide and you will be OK.

 

Following is link to a decent tuning seminar given by a Toko rep. The 2nd video is on side edge bevel.

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=fxOTdT55HNY

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNzve8w2S0E

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0F0ZDkxALLg

post #7 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingGrump View Post
 

 

 

The diamond stones are more for deburring before filing and polishing after filing. A panzer is a overkill unless you have a delicate touch.

.

 

Following is link to a decent tuning seminar given by a Toko rep. The 2nd video is on side edge bevel.

 

 

 

So if there are burs or rails from rocks, would I take them down to the extent possible with a 100 or 200 Diamond in the guide, then use the file for the real cutting work and then finish with the 400, 600, 1500 and then ceramic/Arkansas stone? Or is this beyond the point of diminished returns for a mere mortal skier?

Thanks for the vids. I have seen those. Very good, but the ones I learned most from are published by Artechski.

post #8 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by deliberate1 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingGrump View Post
 

 

 

The diamond stones are more for deburring before filing and polishing after filing. A panzer is a overkill unless you have a delicate touch.

.

 

Following is link to a decent tuning seminar given by a Toko rep. The 2nd video is on side edge bevel.

 

 

 

So if there are burs or rails from rocks, would I take them down to the extent possible with a 100 or 200 Diamond in the guide, then use the file for the real cutting work and then finish with the 400, 600, 1500 and then ceramic/Arkansas stone? Or is this beyond the point of diminished returns for a mere mortal skier?

Thanks for the vids. I have seen those. Very good, but the ones I learned most from are published by Artechski.

 

Just about right. When using the file, listen to the sound of the file cutting. When it sound scratchy means the case hardened burrs were not totally removed by the stones. Try the diamond stones in the sections where the sound came from.

 

Just remember that tuning your own skis are good for the soul - so there is never too much or too little, as long as you have time to kill and a couple of beers.

post #9 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingGrump View Post
 

 

Just remember that tuning your own skis are good for the soul - so there is never too much or too little, as long as you have time to kill and a couple of beers.

 

:beercheer:
post #10 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by deliberate1 View Post
 

So if there are burs or rails from rocks, would I take them down to the extent possible with a 100 or 200 Diamond in the guide, then use the file for the real cutting work and then finish with the 400, 600, 1500 and then ceramic/Arkansas stone? Or is this beyond the point of diminished returns for a mere mortal skier?

Thanks for the vids. I have seen those. Very good, but the ones I learned most from are published by Artechski.

I use a coarse/wet stone for removing burrs/rails - no need to waste a moon flex for these.  If you era going to use a file (and you will every so often to get them really sharp, typically 4-6 days depending on condition, because the diamonds do not remove enough) use it after the rough stone and BEFORE any of the diamond stones.  For recreational I would not bother with more than a 200 and a 400.  If you want to really polish, get a 1000 as well

post #11 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotsSkier View Post
 

I use a coarse/wet stone for removing burrs/rails - no need to waste a moon flex for these.  If you era going to use a file (and you will every so often to get them really sharp, typically 4-6 days depending on condition, because the diamonds do not remove enough) use it after the rough stone and BEFORE any of the diamond stones.  For recreational I would not bother with more than a 200 and a 400.  If you want to really polish, get a 1000 as well

Can you kindly recommend specific base and edge files and the wet stones you use for the prep work?

Tx.

post #12 of 17

I really like the swix 6 inch and 8 inch files.  I have a couple from Artech I have been using for 8years + and they are still good (i actually bought new ones last year but haven't needed to use them!)

 

My coarse stone is from Swix IIRC,  have had it for a loooong time!

post #13 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotsSkier View Post
 

I really like the swix 6 inch and 8 inch files.  I have a couple from Artech I have been using for 8years + and they are still good (i actually bought new ones last year but haven't needed to use them!)

 

My coarse stone is from Swix IIRC,  have had it for a loooong time!

Spend some of my money please.

http://www.artechski.com/ski-tuning-side-base-edge-files.aspx#gsc.tab=0

post #14 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by deliberate1 View Post
 

Spend some of my money please.

http://www.artechski.com/ski-tuning-side-base-edge-files.aspx#gsc.tab=0

 

 

OOOH!  do you realize how dangerous that could be....:D

 

here is what you want 

 

http://www.artechski.com/2014-Swix-Race-Tech-Swiss-Chrome-File-7424.aspx#gsc.tab=0

 you want the 6 inch fine and the 8 inch second cut  

post #15 of 17
Thread Starter 

You, sir, are a gentleman and a scholar. 

I figured I'd end up with the ones made of real Diamonds, moon rocks or files forged of Unobtainiumin in some hidden  Alpine kingdom .

Thumbs Up

post #16 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by deliberate1 View Post

You, sir, are a gentleman and a scholar. 
I figured I'd end up with the ones made of real Diamonds, moon rocks or files forged of Unobtainiumin in some hidden  Alpine kingdom .
icon14.gif

Glad to be of assistance. Use something like the wintersteiger pocket whetstone for the rough burrs
post #17 of 17

Sometimes if I have a hardened spot the file catches and releases, sounding funny and leaving a pattern of marksbehind.  You can feel it too.  I go back to a stone  locally and then try again.  I have a Harbor Freight stone sold as a knife sharpener for problem spots.  Looks funny on the edge guide, but it works.

 

I use diamonds before every trip  (and usually once mid-trip for a long trip) but only file when the edge feels dull, a few times a season.  I'm not a racer and I'm not aiming for perfection.

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