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Turning tips

post #1 of 19
Thread Starter 
Hey everyone. I'm fairly new to skiing. I've maybe gone a half dozen times or so. I recently came from snowboarding but after tearing my meniscus last year on a ski trip, I wanted to try something different.

I have searched the forums but I was either confused by some of the terminology people used or didn't see what I wanted. During a turn, my inside foot gets very wobbly. I've noticed that I take the weight off of my toes and "lean back" persay with that foot only. However that makes me unstable and "afraid" of more difficult runs. Does anyone have any tips I can try to help fix this? Thank you everyone in advance!
post #2 of 19

Welcome to Epic TS!

 

Video would make this a lot easier.

 

We will need some more information to help. Are you using rental gear? Boot fit may be a part of the problem. Are you making turns in a wedge (tips closer than tails, both skis engaging their inside edges) or parallel (both skis tipped onto the same side edge)? When you say wobbly do you mean turns right and left rapidly (wiggles back and forth) or do you mean "chatter" (edge bounces in the snow)? Are you saying that when you take the weight off the toes the wobble stops? Do you do this with both feet or just the inside foot?

post #3 of 19
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRusty View Post

Welcome to Epic TS!

Video would make this a lot easier.

We will need some more information to help. Are you using rental gear? Boot fit may be a part of the problem. Are you making turns in a wedge (tips closer than tails, both skis engaging their inside edges) or parallel (both skis tipped onto the same side edge)? When you say wobbly do you mean turns right and left rapidly (wiggles back and forth) or do you mean "chatter" (edge bounces in the snow)? Are you saying that when you take the weight off the toes the wobble stops? Do you do this with both feet or just the inside foot?

I have my own stuff. I have a pair of line prophet flites (167cm) I'm roughly 6'2". And I mean the tip wiggles back and forth during a turn, not chatter. I attempt to get the edges closest to the uphill side during a turn.
post #4 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by ts656577 View Post

I have my own stuff. I have a pair of line prophet flites (167cm) I'm roughly 6'2". And I mean the tip wiggles back and forth during a turn, not chatter. I attempt to get the edges closest to the uphill side during a turn.

Usually that happens when you didn't tip the ski enough to let the edge bite into the snow. When you make a turn, how much of your weight is put on the outside vs inside foot?
post #5 of 19
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jzmtl View Post

Usually that happens when you didn't tip the ski enough to let the edge bite into the snow. When you make a turn, how much of your weight is put on the outside vs inside foot?

I believe I put more weight on the outside foot. That being said, at higher speed turns I can feel the nose of the ski lift up as if I'm putting more weight on the tail.
post #6 of 19

ts656577

It sounds like you are in the back seat.  Try this.

 

Go to the bunny slope (yes, just do it; leave friends to go shred the mountain without you for a while).

Ski straight down.  

Lift one ski tail, keeping its tip in the air an inch or so.  This guarantees that you are forward, not aft, on the other ski.

Edge the ski you are standing on to its Big Toe Edge (BTE), and you will turn. It doesn't take much edge. 

 

If you can't lift the tail and keep the tip in the snow, you are really stuck in the back seat.  Bend that other ankle forward big time and get your hips forward.  Stand up TALL and reach forward with your arms.  That should do it.

 

Repeat skiing straight down on that bunny hill, alternating which tail you lift.  This will result in you making turns left and right.  Feel the forwardness you have achieved by lifting the tails.  Keep at it, without friends around, until you can stay forward, edge the ski you are standing on, and lift alternating tails, making little turns.  This is so cool!  play around with how far forward or centered you can get while making turns with the edged ski.  Play around with how edged you can get that ski you are standing on without falling over. Gain control of your forwardness/centeredness, and of your edges. 

 

Then go to an easy green trail and repeat.  Keep lifting alternative tails, with the tip staying in contact with the snow.

Progress to easy blues.  I bet with some practice you can do it on blacks too. 
This drill will teach you to stay forward.  Do it until you can keep forward or centered (in both cases, NOT aft) without lifting the tails.

 

When you are successful, the nose of your ski will stop being airborne (lifted noses are a sure sign of back-seat-ness).

The wobbly inside ski whose tail is most likely stuck in the snow while its tip waves around in the air will begin to behave.  

You'll be well on your way to controlling those substantial planks on your feet.

 

Have fun!


Edited by LiquidFeet - 1/10/14 at 2:54pm
post #7 of 19
Yep, common problem, everybody went through the same thing when they started. Too much weight makes your tip has no pressure, so edge has no bite.
post #8 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by ts656577 View Post

Hey everyone. I'm fairly new to skiing. I've maybe gone a half dozen times or so. I recently came from snowboarding but after tearing my meniscus last year on a ski trip, I wanted to try something different.

I have searched the forums but I was either confused by some of the terminology people used or didn't see what I wanted. During a turn, my inside foot gets very wobbly. I've noticed that I take the weight off of my toes and "lean back" persay with that foot only. However that makes me unstable and "afraid" of more difficult runs. Does anyone have any tips I can try to help fix this? Thank you everyone in advance!


Step one:  Make sure the skis have a true tune.  Skis with a bad tune will hold you back.

Step two:  Make sure the bindings are not loose and that they are adjusted correctly.

Maybe step three:  Make sure you have boots that are fit properly.  See a fitter.

Step four:  It takes time.  Be patient.  Maybe take a lesson.

 

Good luck and don't give up!

post #9 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by jzmtl View Post

Yep, common problem, everybody went through the same thing when they started. Too much weight makes your tip has no pressure, so edge has no bite.

I'm a pretty experienced skier and I still try to start every ski day with one run of simple green slope stuff to help me remember the right movements, a la LiquidFeet's post. If I don't, I always regret it.
post #10 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by qcanoe View Post

I'm a pretty experienced skier and I still try to start every ski day with one run of simple green slope stuff to help me remember the right movements, a la LiquidFeet's post. If I don't, I always regret it.

I always do warm up runs too. Current routine is some sideslip/360 right off the lift, then a few hop turns, ski with outside foot, inside, and finish with some one foot.
post #11 of 19
Thread Starter 
Wow thank you everyone. I really appreciate you taking the time to write these thoughtful responses. Sadly it's supposed to rain today so I probably won't be able to go until next week but I'm very excited to try this stuff out. Thanks again!
post #12 of 19

ts, it is critically important to have your feet under your hips.  When you're in the back seat, feet in front of your hips, nothing can work right. 

 

If your skis are tuned OK (true flat bottoms, 1° bottom edge bevel, probably 1° side edge bevel, no burrs sticking out of the edges), and if your boots fit (no slop, the smallest size you can wear without discomfort buckled as tightly as you can without discomfort), then you need to get centered over your skis.

 

You want to be on the balls of your feet all the time.  I've only come across two physical activities where that isn't the rule...clog dancing and water skiing.  As said above, stand tall, on the balls of your feet.  Hinge forward at your ankles so you press on the tongues of your boots all the time.  Imagine that your zipper pull is hanging over the brand name on the tops of your skis.  (That's actually too far forward, but you won't be there even if you think you're close.)  The drill where you lift the tail of your inside ski off the snow just an inch is a good drill.  Keep the tip gliding on the snow, and try to keep the tips even; don't shove the inside ski forward.

 

Challenge yourself on either technique or terrain, but not both.  Get your skis under control and working confidently for you on easy terrain.  Increase the difficulty of the terrain gradually.  The steeper the hill, the more your feet need to seem to be behind you.  They aren't really, but they'll feel that way.  If I can see the tips of my skis in the lower part of my goggles, I know that I need to pull my feet farther behind me.

 

People will tell you to keep your weight forward, but they won't tell you how.  Here's how...pull your feet behind you.  Pull both feet back just as you're beginning each turn.  Pull your inside foot back strongly through every turn.  You'll be comfortably balanced on the balls of your feet, and your skis will be working for you instead of the opposite.

post #13 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoftSnowGuy View Post
 

ts, it is critically important to have your feet under your hips.  When you're in the back seat, feet in front of your hips, nothing can work right. 

 

If your skis are tuned OK (true flat bottoms, 1° bottom edge bevel, probably 1° side edge bevel, no burrs sticking out of the edges), and if your boots fit (no slop, the smallest size you can wear without discomfort buckled as tightly as you can without discomfort), then you need to get centered over your skis.

 

You want to be on the balls of your feet all the time.  I've only come across two physical activities where that isn't the rule...clog dancing and water skiing.  As said above, stand tall, on the balls of your feet.  Hinge forward at your ankles so you press on the tongues of your boots all the time.  Imagine that your zipper pull is hanging over the brand name on the tops of your skis.  (That's actually too far forward, but you won't be there even if you think you're close.)  The drill where you lift the tail of your inside ski off the snow just an inch is a good drill.  Keep the tip gliding on the snow, and try to keep the tips even; don't shove the inside ski forward.

 

Challenge yourself on either technique or terrain, but not both.  Get your skis under control and working confidently for you on easy terrain.  Increase the difficulty of the terrain gradually.  The steeper the hill, the more your feet need to seem to be behind you.  They aren't really, but they'll feel that way.  If I can see the tips of my skis in the lower part of my goggles, I know that I need to pull my feet farther behind me.

 

People will tell you to keep your weight forward, but they won't tell you how.  Here's how...pull your feet behind you.  Pull both feet back just as you're beginning each turn.  Pull your inside foot back strongly through every turn.  You'll be comfortably balanced on the balls of your feet, and your skis will be working for you instead of the opposite.

 

Balls of your feet?  Then why does every boot out there have a line in the middle of your ski boot under the arch, not too mention your ski?  

post #14 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsofbos View Post
 

 

Balls of your feet?  Then why does every boot out there have a line in the middle of your ski boot under the arch, not too mention your ski?  

 

That's for binding placement. Not for how you should balance your weight over the ski. Ball of foot binding placement is another issue.

post #15 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post

ts656577

It sounds like you are in the back seat.  Try this.

Go to the bunny slope (yes, just do it; leave friends to go shred the mountain without you for a while).
Ski straight down.  
Lift one ski tail, keeping its tip in the air an inch or so.  This guarantees that you are forward, not aft, on the other ski.
Edge the ski you are standing on to its Big Toe Edge (BTE), and you will turn. It doesn't take much edge. 

If you can't lift the tail and keep the tip in the snow, you are really stuck in the back seat.  Bend that other ankle forward big time and get your hips forward.  Stand up TALL and reach forward with your arms.  That should do it.



 
Repeat skiing straight down on that bunny hill, alternating which tail you lift.  This will result in you making turns left and right.  Feel the forwardness you have achieved by lifting the tails.  Keep at it, without friends around, until you can stay forward, edge the ski you are standing on, and lift alternating tails, making little turns.  This is so cool!  play around with how far forward or centered you can get while making turns with the edged ski.  Play around with how edged you can get that ski you are standing on without falling over. Gain control of your forwardness/centeredness, and of your edges. 

Then go to an easy green trail and repeat.  Keep lifting alternative tails, with the tip staying in contact with the snow.
Progress to easy blues.  I bet with some practice you can do it on blacks too. 

This drill will teach you to stay forward.  Do it until you can keep forward or centered (in both cases, NOT aft) without lifting the tails.

When you are successful, the nose of your ski will stop being airborne (lifted noses are a sure sign of back-seat-ness).
The wobbly inside ski whose tail is most likely stuck in the snow while its tip waves around in the air will begin to behave.  
You'll be well on your way to controlling those substantial planks on your feet.

Have fun!

Great post for me as now figuring out this. Can you clarify which ski you are big toe edging ... Ski tail raised or other ?
Thanks
post #16 of 19

My comments below in red.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by woodhach View Post

Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post

ts656577

It sounds like you are in the back seat.  Try this.

Go to the bunny slope (yes, just do it; leave friends to go shred the mountain without you for a while).
Ski straight down.  
Lift one ski tail, keeping its tip in the air an inch or so.  (why not start with lifting the left ski; it will become your inside ski because of the lift) This guarantees that you are forward, not aft, on the other ski. (The "other ski" is your right ski; it will become your outside ski by default because you are on it and not on the left/lifted ski).
Edge the ski you are standing on to its Big Toe Edge (BTE), and you will turn (edge the right ski to its BTE; it's now your outside ski). It doesn't take much edge. (You'll be turning left).  
(Alternate to link turns.)
 

Summary:  to go left while not being aft, lift the tail of the left ski, and tip the left ski's tip to its LTE.  The right ski will usually tip itself on its own to the BTE, but you're welcome to encourage it along.

 

If you can't lift the tail and keep the tip in the snow (left, inside ski), you are really stuck in the back seat.  Bend that other ankle forward big time and get your hips forward.  Stand up TALL and reach forward with your arms.  That should do it. 

 
Repeat skiing straight down on that bunny hill, alternating which tail you lift.  This will result in you making turns left and right. (Lift left ski tail for left turn, and vice versa).  Feel the forwardness you have achieved by lifting the tails.  Keep at it, without friends around, until you can stay forward, edge the ski you are standing on, and lift alternating tails, making little turns.  This is so cool!  play around with how far forward or centered you can get while making turns with the edged ski.  Play around with how edged you can get that ski you are standing on without falling over. Gain control of your forwardness/centeredness, and of your edges. 

Then go to an easy green trail and repeat.  Keep lifting alternative tails, with the tip staying in contact with the snow.
Progress to easy blues.  I bet with some practice you can do it on blacks too. 

 

To make those turns even better, as you lift the tail of the new inside ski, (left to go left), also tip that partially lifted ski to its LTE.  This means tip it to the little toe edge.  The shovel's tip will be tilted, with the little toe edge touching down in the snow and the big toe edge slightly higher and a little bit off the snow.  It only takes a little bit of tipping of that new inside ski to get good feedback. Your turns will become more powerful.  Practice this until you can feel it happening.  Then work on getting the tail back down on the snow without losing any of the good effects.  It will feel less pressure coming up from the snow, and you should be able to lift it without falling.  Test every now and then just to make sure old habits have not returned.


This drill will teach you to stay forward.  Do it until you can keep forward or centered (in both cases, NOT aft) without lifting the tails.

When you are successful, the nose of your ski will stop being airborne (lifted noses are a sure sign of back-seat-ness).
The wobbly inside ski whose tail is most likely stuck in the snow while its tip waves around in the air will begin to behave.  
You'll be well on your way to controlling those substantial planks on your feet.

Have fun!

Great post for me as now figuring out this. Can you clarify which ski you are big toe edging ... Ski tail raised or other ?
Thanks

 

I think I got redundant there.  Need more coffee.


Edited by LiquidFeet - 3/1/15 at 8:07am
post #17 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post
 


This is great, Thanks LiquidFeet.  Unfortunately i have to wait until December which is my next trip to practice :(

post #18 of 19

@woodhach, it sounds like you need to move near a mountain.

In the meantime, enjoy the green season.  

post #19 of 19

LoL i live on a mountain but here in Caribbean its 90 degrees every day .. i get my cold fix every Christmas :)

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