or Connect
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

How do I stop the wedge?!

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 

So I have developed the wedge.  I have tried to take an almost telemark aproach to my turns, at least as far as my boot will let my ankle pivot forward to keep my tips even.  It feels uncomfortable and my inside ski drifts ahead of my downhill ski.  I don't think I have weighting problems because I rarely if ever fall inside.

 

Any drills to combat this would be greatfully tried!!!

 

And thanks to LiquidFeet for the suggestion of starting this thread.

post #2 of 15

I'm having a hard time picturing what you mean by 'telmark'. In any case, one suggestion of many that I can give for working to prevent the wedge is to focus on initiating a new turn by pressing down on the little toe of your downhill foot, the one which will become the inside ski of the new turn. By actively engaging that inside ski early, you are much less likely to oversteer the outside ski, which will result in a wedge.

post #3 of 15
Thread Starter 

I was told that my inside ski being ahead of my downhill ski was causing the wedge...tips further apart than the tails....and that by keeping my tips even I would avoid this.   For some reason I have a hard time keeping my skis even.  So to exaggerate it in my mind I tried thinking that I was telemarking and had to draw my inside ski back.  Obviously this is limited by the flex in my boot and is uncomfortable.  It feels weird and it is a battle.  I have gone from being comfortable on skis to feeling unbalanced until I revert to previous form.

post #4 of 15

Tips further apart than tails isn't a wedge, it is a diverging parallel, or duck foot, depending on how bad it is.

 

Don't worry about tip lead. Tip lead takes care of itself, and has pretty much nothing to do with parallel or not. Bump skiers can stay parallel with almost no tip lead, old school skiers can stay parallel with a ton.

 

A divergent parallel can happen for a few different reasons. Interestingly enough, I had this very conversation on the lift with @KevinF on the lift at Stowe last weekend. It can be a functional, conscious process where the skier is using that inside ski tip to initiate a tighter turn and diminish the radius of the turn. There are much better ways to do this, but some people will do it anyways.

 

The other, more common reason for a divergent ski during your turn is a balance issue. If you are not balanced at the beginning of your turn, or if you don't feel confident about your balance at the start of the turn. In order to compensate for that, your inside foot will rotate toward the center of the turn, giving you a more stable platform to compensate for the poor balance.

 

For the balance issue, which is more likely in this case, I'd suggest practicing one footed turns. As you are about to initiate a new turn, pick up the tail your downhill ski, the ski that will be the inside ski of the new turn. Keep the tip on the snow. This will keep your balance forward, and allow you to balance on the outside ski. Complete the turn with the outside ski, then switch feet for the turn in the other direction. By doing this, you are improving and consolidating your balance, and making it less likely that you will need to diverge at the start of your turn for balance.

post #5 of 15

Another thing that might be an issue is that you aren't utilizing short leg/long leg in your turn enough. If your inside leg is too long, the ski may not have any other option but to pronate and cause that inside ski to turn inward. As your body angles into the turn, shorten your inside leg by pulling your foot up toward your butt, keeping your knee over your toe, your heel under your butt. This may help keep the ski from twisting inward and causing a divergence.

post #6 of 15

Boot fit and alignment. Do it. Love it. Could solve everything without adjustment of technique.

post #7 of 15
Thread Starter 

Thank you very very much.  I will let you know how it goes in the next 10 days or so.  much appreciated. :beercheer:

post #8 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by 80deg16minW View Post
 

I was told that my inside ski being ahead of my downhill ski was causing the wedge...tips further apart than the tails....and that by keeping my tips even I would avoid this.   For some reason I have a hard time keeping my skis even.  So to exaggerate it in my mind I tried thinking that I was telemarking and had to draw my inside ski back.  Obviously this is limited by the flex in my boot and is uncomfortable.  It feels weird and it is a battle.  I have gone from being comfortable on skis to feeling unbalanced until I revert to previous form.

 

 

the thing is if you steering your feet from the femur joint , tipping your inside foot and balanced on your outside ski you going to have hard time wedging. one of those three things (or two of them or all them) is not present if you are wedging.

 

I would stop listening to ever told you have to much tip lead and just focus on first in order

 

getting you legs to be seperated from you pelvis

balancing on your outside ski

tipping your inside ski

 

if you doing these things you are probably not wedging any more.

post #9 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Matta View Post
 
 

I would stop listening to ever told you have to much tip lead ...

 

Bing - we have a winner!

 

Got any video of your old skiing?

 

At turn initiation tip lead (the amount the uphill ski is ahead of the downhill ski) should match hip lead and shoulder lead. A wedge is when both skis are on their inside edges.

post #10 of 15

Controversial advice from an old man, who is not and never was a ski instructor; take it or leave it:

 

IMHO the reason you are skiing in a wedge is because that is what your were taught to do since day one.

 

Start over; ski on a hard surface with your skis parallel pointing down the hill and just tip them right up onto a big edge angle and keep your balance as the skis turn.  The snow itself will prevent the wedgie.  The more you tip them the more you will turn.  Eventually you will be able to play with weight distribution (most to the outside ski), but for now just concentrate on edge angle and balance.  That alone should work with any modern ski.  If your skis are 25 years old, then you will have  to weight the front of them first.

post #11 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
 

Controversial advice from an old man, who is not and never was a ski instructor; take it or leave it:

 

IMHO the reason you are skiing in a wedge is because that is what your were taught to do since day one.

 

Start over; ski on a hard surface with your skis parallel pointing down the hill and just tip them right up onto a big edge angle and keep your balance as the skis turn.  The snow itself will prevent the wedgie.  The more you tip them the more you will turn.  Eventually you will be able to play with weight distribution (most to the outside ski), but for now just concentrate on edge angle and balance.  That alone should work with any modern ski.  If your skis are 25 years old, then you will have  to weight the front of them first.

 

 

ghost how do you make a wedge? serious question because I am certain you do it the way that causes people to wedge forever so there for your opinion is based of the wrong assumtion of what the wedge is. So how do you make wedge ghost? 

 

to be able to edge their skis and make a turn? no turning of their skis and they are just going to magically balance on their outside ski.  how many time has this actually worked for you?

post #12 of 15

I have many ways of making a wedge.  Here are the first few that come to mind for making a "gliding wedge", which is the type of wedge I was thinking of with regards to OP.

1) ski along with feet at a natural width apart and tips slightly closer together than tails; once started it's a stable position that is self-sustaining.

2) slightly more pressure on inside edges than outside edges, whether deliberate or boot setup.
3) point ski tips together by steering skis in opposite directions.

 

I have not counted the times, so I will say countless times.  Tipping my skis on edge with proper pressuring and maintaining good balancing as the skis turn themselves and me has worked for me for more than a few decades. 

 

Just in case you want to know how I make a snow-plough (aka braking) wedge, which looks the same to some people but isn't, it's by moving knees and tips together while pushing heels apart.  An evil invention devised by sadistic ski instructors sometime around ( IIRC; my memory is not as good as I remember it once was) the mid 19th century for torturing beginners, the braking wedge is still useful on rare occasions.

post #13 of 15
Josh /Ghost, check out the followup post by the OP ...no wedge!
post #14 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by freeski919 View Post
 

I'm having a hard time picturing what you mean by 'telmark'. In any case, one suggestion of many that I can give for working to prevent the wedge is to focus on initiating a new turn by pressing down on the little toe of your downhill foot, the one which will become the inside ski of the new turn. By actively engaging that inside ski early, you are much less likely to oversteer the outside ski, which will result in a wedge.

 

It's the release of the old outside foot into the turn that causes a simultaneous release of both feet into the turn.  I suspect that the wedge is being caused by a sequential edge release with the new outside edge being let go first.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 80deg16minW View Post
 

I was told that my inside ski being ahead of my downhill ski was causing the wedge...tips further apart than the tails....and that by keeping my tips even I would avoid this.   For some reason I have a hard time keeping my skis even.  So to exaggerate it in my mind I tried thinking that I was telemarking and had to draw my inside ski back.  Obviously this is limited by the flex in my boot and is uncomfortable.  It feels weird and it is a battle.  I have gone from being comfortable on skis to feeling unbalanced until I revert to previous form.

Who ever told you that was probably wrong.  It's natural for the inside half to lead in an alpine turn.  You don't want a ton of tip lead, but trying to make your tips remain equal is not what you want.  BTW...  What you are describing here isn't a wedge, it's a divergence and is probably caused by too much weight on your inside ski causing it to turn more than your outside ski.  You sound like you are leaning inside.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Matta View Post
 

 

 

the thing is if you steering your feet from the femur joint , tipping your inside foot and balanced on your outside ski you going to have hard time wedging. one of those three things (or two of them or all them) is not present if you are wedging.

 

I would stop listening to ever told you have to much tip lead and just focus on first in order

 

getting you legs to be seperated from you pelvis

balancing on your outside ski

tipping your inside ski

 

if you doing these things you are probably not wedging any more.

Josh is right here.  If you listen to him you will neither wedge nor diverge.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cgeib View Post

Josh /Ghost, check out the followup post by the OP ...no wedge!

 

I'm not seeing a follow up post.

post #15 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by 80deg16minW View Post

I was told that my inside ski being ahead of my downhill ski was causing the wedge...tips further apart than the tails....

Post 3 where the wedge is defined.

Diverging instead of a wedge. [edit] as you noted
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ski Instruction & Coaching