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Top of the line MIPS ski helmets comparison question

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 

Hi,

I am debating between Poc fornix backcountry mips and Poc Receptor Back Country Mips.

​As far as I understand (if you forget the money for a second) The receptor is much heavier, smaller at biggest size (I am 60), has no micro size adjustment, not vents adjustments and no goggle vents. Correct?

 

​Any one has experience with these?

 

Now there is this:

Scott Chase Helmet w/ Mips 2014

 

But that one looks like bicycle helmet with open vents.....

 

Any thoughts?

 

thanks.

post #2 of 22

Incorrect. The Receptor has major vents that work really well: http://www.pocsports.com/en/product/1229/receptor-backcountry-mips They are covered to prevent penetration, a two-level design. Pretty sure they can be opened and closed. The Receptor runs large; I am a XL in the Comp and a L in the Receptor, can get into my son's M without too much strain. Also a slightly different shape than the rest, bit better for oval heads.

 

Can't speak to "much heavier," since have not tried on a Fornix, but the Receptor's a pretty light helmet. As light or lighter than the Skull X Light. My son is 7, for instance, and doesn't have the thickest neck. He hasn't complained.

 

Not clear what "microsize adjustment" means; all POCS come with extra pads to put in, and usually have a set inside that can be removed at will. Far as I know, some - new Skull II, Fornix, the kids helmets like the Bugs, have a band in back that can be tightened or loosened. Not sure that's necessarily a good thing, incidentally, since it could produce a space at the back between your head and the helmet where shock absorption is being handled by a plastic band. But I'm sure POC engineers have that thought through.

 

I've owned the Skull Light with the little goggle vent in front and have never noticed a difference between its performance and the Comp's, without a vent. OTOH, I can feel the difference between either of those and the helmets with top vents. 

 

One thing that never comes up in a discussion of vents, incidentally, is trees. Around which I would not want unshielded vents. Or prolly vents at all. Ever had a low branch hook onto your helmet or goggles? Not a pleasant experience; IME the smoother surface brushing branches the better. Ditto for running into rocks, I'd guess.  

post #3 of 22
Thread Starter 

Thank you but it seems that Receptor has another "problem".

Recco Technology

 

A radio transmitter on your head at all times. Am I wrong?

If I am right thats horrible!

post #4 of 22

It's not a transmitter, it's a reflector. Passive. 

post #5 of 22
RECCO is just a reflector.
post #6 of 22

Both the Chase and Symbol from Scott offer the MIPS tech in the helmets. The Symbol has great venting and a fit system to get the fit perfect. I have had both the Symbol and Chase on my head I can tell you they are a full snow sports helmet and not a bike helmet ( they do have a full line of MIPS bike helmets as well). We can and I'm sure we will get into the debate of which is safer, my only answer is the one that fits. Let me know if you have any other questions on the MIPS system or the helmets in question. 

post #7 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by qwerty53 View Post
 

Thank you but it seems that Receptor has another "problem".

Recco Technology

 

A radio transmitter on your head at all times. Am I wrong?

If I am right thats horrible!

 

As others have stated, it's a reflector, not a transmitter.

 

That said - what's the concern about running about with a radio transmitter on your head at all times?

post #8 of 22
Thread Starter 

Small radio station on your head? You are not concerned with that?

Ask people who sue media companies for opening a radio station within miles of their houses.

post #9 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by qwerty53 View Post
 

Small radio station on your head? You are not concerned with that?

Ask people who sue media companies for opening a radio station within miles of their houses.

 

Not a bit, why would I be?  Radio waves aren't magic - and just like I'm not concerned by having a headlamp on my head, I wouldn't be worried about having an avalanche transciever, cell phone, cordless phone, bluetooth headset, Wifi transmitter or reciever, or walkie talkie strapped there.

 

Any radio link with enough power to hurt you requires licensing (and appropriate safety precautions!) to deploy legally.

post #10 of 22
Thread Starter 

To each their own.

But anyways SO:

Fornix Backcountry MIPS has all great features (light, ventilated, size adjustable) but no Multi-impact EPP liner

 

VS

 

Receptor Backcountry MIPS no features (dont care about Recco), much heavier but has EPP

 

So whats the verdict?

post #11 of 22

If you want a top of the line MIPS helmet you won't get better than a Sweet Protection Grimnir Mips . Very light and extremely comfortable . Best helmet I have ever owned . Not cheap but its worth it .

post #12 of 22

I purchased the Backcountry MIPS over the receptor for two big reasons:

 

1)  The receptor's RECCO reflector only works when someone nearby has one of the transmitters.  Not too many do; ski patrol and some helis.  By the time those get on-scene it's pretty late in the game.  You can buy the reflectors separately (and they're sewn into some gear already) if you really want them.

 

2)  The Backcountry has a sliding vent system.  The Receptor you have to take off and move the velcro pads inside to open and close.

 

The Backcountry was $50 cheaper (no RECCO) and had the venting system I liked.

 

Disclaimer: I haven't skiied with it yet.  =)

post #13 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zenden View Post
 

If you want a top of the line MIPS helmet you won't get better than a Sweet Protection Grimnir Mips . Very light and extremely comfortable . Best helmet I have ever owned . Not cheap but its worth it .

Hahaha. Go find them in the USA... impossible

Igneter is better. Same protection and more versatile I think.

Also they dont have Multi-impact EPP liner

post #14 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by moxford View Post
 

I purchased the Backcountry MIPS over the receptor for two big reasons:

 

1)  The receptor's RECCO reflector only works when someone nearby has one of the transmitters.  Not too many do; ski patrol and some helis.  By the time those get on-scene it's pretty late in the game.  You can buy the reflectors separately (and they're sewn into some gear already) if you really want them.

 

2)  The Backcountry has a sliding vent system.  The Receptor you have to take off and move the velcro pads inside to open and close.

 

The Backcountry was $50 cheaper (no RECCO) and had the venting system I liked.

 

Disclaimer: I haven't skiied with it yet.  =)

RECCO is useless. No question about it. And I agree with all above. But the fornix doesnt have Multi-impact EPP liner. THATS my biggest issue. 1. EPP is safer than EPS 2. After you get a blow with EPS you need to replace your helmet

post #15 of 22

Studies have shown that the single-impact stuff doesn't cushion as well as the multi-impact materials and, like a bike helmet, you have to hit it relatively hard to compress the single-impact enough to worry about.  Also, the EPP (mutli-impact stuff) does have some "rebound" on impact instead of the "pure crush" of ESP.   Due to this, you also end up with a thicker and heavier helmet due to the extra material to reduce the rebound.

 

EPP/EPU has been around for almost 10 years.  If it were the best out there we'd see a lot more use of it than the few shells we do see and this question wouldn't even need to be asked.

 

Personally, if I take a big enough hit to compromise the single-impact variety, even with the multi-impact I'm probably going to replace the lid because it will likely be cracked/trashed.  I'll take the extra protection for that one big hit.

post #16 of 22
Thread Starter 

OK. Receptor MIPS it is. Thanks all!!!!

post #17 of 22

I mis-typed.

 

The SINGLE IMPACT absorbs BETTER than the multi-impact.  The "crush with no rebound and you have to replace it" give better protection for that one big hit.

 

Sorry. Thinking one thing and typed the reverse.

 

Read some of the MBTR forums for crash reports using both kinds of helmets.

post #18 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by moxford View Post
 

I mis-typed.

 

The SINGLE IMPACT absorbs BETTER than the multi-impact.  The "crush with no rebound and you have to replace it" give better protection for that one big hit.

 

Sorry. Thinking one thing and typed the reverse.

 

Read some of the MBTR forums for crash reports using both kinds of helmets.


LOL ok Thanks. But what if i just bump it lightly (the single)? I would need to replace it every time I fall....

post #19 of 22

Do you replace a bike helmet every time you fall?  Or just when you slam your head into something?  The same is true with skiing/snowboarding.  You can crash a lot without impacting the helmet.  

 

The whole "multi-impact" thing, personally, plays more into things like skateboarding and hockey where you're getting whacked a LOT and they're a lot of high-frequency impact-on-hard-surfaces.

 

Now, you slam your head on the ice (hard surface) while skiing you have to make a judgement call on how hard you hit and whether or not you've deformed the foam.  If I go into a tree or rock I'm all about saving my head and screw the wallet.  Way cheaper to spring for another helmet than deal with possible medical bills and the pain.  And the possible pain of missing powder days.  =P

 

Don't forget too that the MIPS tech is going to change how the system as a whole reacts - the shearing pins mean that a chunk of that initial crush force is probably absorbed by the pins, and then some of the rotational forces instead of pure crush come into effect.

 

It's new so we don't have a lot of history/data on real-world crashes with it, but even if it's $200USD (what I paid for the Fornix Backcountry) and I have to replace it every year ... oh well.  Break an arm?  Leg?  Knee?  Yeah, that's going to suck but you'll probably heal up no problem.  Neck/back/head?  Life altering.

 

None of us plan to crash.  But, IMO, if you're crashing a lot (especially into a lot of hard things) you may want to re-evaluate  ... =)

 

Do your own research and make your own decision; don't listen to me or anyone else.  It's your neck (literally) and you will have to live (or not live) with the outcome.  

post #20 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by moxford View Post
 

Do you replace a bike helmet every time you fall?  Or just when you slam your head into something?  The same is true with skiing/snowboarding.  You can crash a lot without impacting the helmet.  

 

The whole "multi-impact" thing, personally, plays more into things like skateboarding and hockey where you're getting whacked a LOT and they're a lot of high-frequency impact-on-hard-surfaces.

 

Now, you slam your head on the ice (hard surface) while skiing you have to make a judgement call on how hard you hit and whether or not you've deformed the foam.  If I go into a tree or rock I'm all about saving my head and screw the wallet.  Way cheaper to spring for another helmet than deal with possible medical bills and the pain.  And the possible pain of missing powder days.  =P

 

Don't forget too that the MIPS tech is going to change how the system as a whole reacts - the shearing pins mean that a chunk of that initial crush force is probably absorbed by the pins, and then some of the rotational forces instead of pure crush come into effect.

 

It's new so we don't have a lot of history/data on real-world crashes with it, but even if it's $200USD (what I paid for the Fornix Backcountry) and I have to replace it every year ... oh well.  Break an arm?  Leg?  Knee?  Yeah, that's going to suck but you'll probably heal up no problem.  Neck/back/head?  Life altering.

 

None of us plan to crash.  But, IMO, if you're crashing a lot (especially into a lot of hard things) you may want to re-evaluate  ... =)

 

Do your own research and make your own decision; don't listen to me or anyone else.  It's your neck (literally) and you will have to live (or not live) with the outcome.  


Nicely said. Thanks. Ordered the fornix

post #21 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by qwerty53 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zenden View Post
 

If you want a top of the line MIPS helmet you won't get better than a Sweet Protection Grimnir Mips . Very light and extremely comfortable . Best helmet I have ever owned . Not cheap but its worth it .

Hahaha. Go find them in the USA... impossible

Igneter is better. Same protection and more versatile I think.

Also they dont have Multi-impact EPP liner

Just purchases a Sweet Protection Igniter MIPS on ebay for $210. Im stoked!!! After a bad concussion wearing a cheap helmet last season it was time for an upgrade

post #22 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by moxford View Post
 

Do you replace a bike helmet every time you fall?  Or just when you slam your head into something?  The same is true with skiing/snowboarding.  You can crash a lot without impacting the helmet.  

 

The whole "multi-impact" thing, personally, plays more into things like skateboarding and hockey where you're getting whacked a LOT and they're a lot of high-frequency impact-on-hard-surfaces.

 

Now, you slam your head on the ice (hard surface) while skiing you have to make a judgement call on how hard you hit and whether or not you've deformed the foam.  If I go into a tree or rock I'm all about saving my head and screw the wallet.  Way cheaper to spring for another helmet than deal with possible medical bills and the pain.  And the possible pain of missing powder days.  =P

 

Don't forget too that the MIPS tech is going to change how the system as a whole reacts - the shearing pins mean that a chunk of that initial crush force is probably absorbed by the pins, and then some of the rotational forces instead of pure crush come into effect.

 

It's new so we don't have a lot of history/data on real-world crashes with it, but even if it's $200USD (what I paid for the Fornix Backcountry) and I have to replace it every year ... oh well.  Break an arm?  Leg?  Knee?  Yeah, that's going to suck but you'll probably heal up no problem.  Neck/back/head?  Life altering.

 

None of us plan to crash.  But, IMO, if you're crashing a lot (especially into a lot of hard things) you may want to re-evaluate  ... =)

 

Do your own research and make your own decision; don't listen to me or anyone else.  It's your neck (literally) and you will have to live (or not live) with the outcome.  

FWIW, agree that a lot of crashes in skiing don't even much involve the head. And that if they do, the helmet is no longer above suspicion.

 

But OTOH, the "whole 'multi-impact' thing" may be a fairly big deal for foam even if you don't fall. POC has updated its line of racing helmets - which already were made with EPP - to include an added thickness in front to absorb the repeated impact of gates. Which their research people found was degrading the EPP inside quicker than they liked. Now gates sting (apparently more than we realized), but they have nothing like the total momentum of you falling on firm snow with your head. And we've known for a while that even the force equivalent to dropping a helmet off your table to the cement floor can cause microfractures in EPS that are undetectable to the naked eye, but reduce absorption.

 

So do that a few times a season, and add in a few solid falls that still don't cause visible cracks in the foam or shell, and keep the helmet till the foam begins to degrade significantly from chemical aging (typically 5 years from manufacture, which is a year before you buy it), and wallah! You have a liner that's pretty much a placebo. 

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