or Connect
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Tuning tips for beginner - Page 3

post #61 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoJo23 View Post
 

I'm partially with Jacques on this, brush, brush then brush some more.  I tend to scrape less and brush more.  You almost can't brush to much but you certainly can over scrape and be especially careful when "Hot Scraping" as you can do damage to the structure/base quickly when you're hot scraping.  When you hot scrape the base is obviously much warmer and when the base is warm and you have a sharp scraper you can do a fair amount of damage in a hurry if you press to hard.  I'm personally not a big fan of hot scraping.  I prefer to use Swix glide wax cleaner every so often, depending on snow conditions.  You can also use a piece of fiberlene in between your iron and base when you're hot waxing.  Using fiberlene between your iron and base when you're hot waxing will help pick up any dirt or impurities from the base because they float to the surface when you hot wax and the fiberlene will collect the gunk.  Because it floats to the surface you scrape it off anyway, wether you use the fiberlene or not,  but if you do use the fiberlene it will give you a good idea of just how dirty your bases are/were.

 

To start out, if you can buy a oval brass or bronze, oval horse hair and maybe a softish oval nylon, that would be a good starting point and you can always add new/different brushes down the road.  I'd recommend trying to keep your brushes as clean as possible.  Vacuum them out as often as you can and be mindful of brushing out skis when the wax is still warm or when using really soft wax, like base prep, as it will collect on the tips of the bristles and when that happens your brushes will become much less affective.  Always start with your stiffest brush and progress to the softest.  I personally like Holmenkol and Swix oval brushes the best but you can buy Artech and Race Place brand brushes a fair bit cheaper.  I like roto brushes for polishing and overlays but I think oval brushes work best for wax removal.  With roto brushes, except for the metal ones, you can apply a certain amount of pressure but if you see the wax starting to smear on the base instead of coming off like dust, you are pressing down to hard.

 

Sorry to say this Jacques, but I think Scott's Beast vice is the worst POS I've ever used.  I hated mine so much I gave it away and the person I gave it to no longer uses it either.  IMO, there are many other vises on the market better then the Beast Vise.  I feel really bad saying that, too, because I really like Scott he's a really cool ole dude.  I've met him and been to their business a few times when in town for a race.  Never been able to figure out how an outdoor patio furniture business ties into a ski race equipement business though. :)  Not sure if you knew Brian when he was at Race Place but I miss him not being there anymore.  The new guy is ok too, just liked dealing with Brian.


Very good info Mojo.  I'm with you.  POS on the BEAST vice!?  Really, I like mine just fine.  I've learned to use it in many ways.  Yes, Brian left the shop.  I have not seen him in some time now.  Last time was last season at the inception of Crows Feet Commons.
In my brushing video I did go to town because of all the summer hot boxing and hard wax finish.  For most "standard" wax jobs I do a soft stainless just a bit, then a bit of brass, then scrub it good with horse hair.  Main thing I try to impress on folks is that it is hard to over brush. 

BTW, I did a BEAST vice video.  You probably saw it already.  As all my videos, it's very......well, lets say "in-depth"   Here she is again,   Be good!

 

 

And this is how I use it for snowboards!

post #62 of 82

As far as scraping goes, be it hot or cold, bases come in different harnesses.   I soft base will smooth easy.  A quality hard base will prove difficult to smooth, or remove structure. 

post #63 of 82
Thanks, raytseng, I've already done everything I could with a credit card, but I never thought of boiling water. I've been able to get wax out of everything else I didn't want it on, but for some reason my wonderful brass/horsehair brush wouldn't give it up.
post #64 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by litterbug View Post

Mojo, I've managed to gunk up some out my brushes with base prep wax by being too impatient to wait for base prep to cool. How do you recommend cleaning them? I haven't got wax cleaner, but maybe it's time to pick some up.

Thanks to whoever talked about not putting too much pressure on the scraper when hot scraping. I was wondering whether I might damage my new structure, and it sounds like I should indeed back off a little when I haven't let the skis cool completely.


Another thought for you here.  When hot scraping, wrap a few layers of Fiberlene over the scraper.  This works very well.  Once you try that, you will never look back.  Fiberlene is the best and worth every penny.

post #65 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques View Post


Another thought for you here.  When hot scraping, wrap a few layers of Fiberlene over the scraper.  This works very well.  Once you try that, you will never look back.  Fiberlene is the best and worth every penny.
Very nice idea. I do love my fiberlene.

ETA: After going through a roll of Swix quickly because it's lightweight and not so absorbent, I've supplemented it with Toko fiberlene because it works better for ironing, and use the Swix for wiping fine stuff off the edges and base. And blue paper shop towels for things that don't call for fancy paper.
post #66 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by litterbug View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques View Post


Another thought for you here.  When hot scraping, wrap a few layers of Fiberlene over the scraper.  This works very well.  Once you try that, you will never look back.  Fiberlene is the best and worth every penny.
Very nice idea. I do love my fiberlene.

ETA: After going through a roll of Swix quickly because it's lightweight and not so absorbent, I've supplemented it with Toko fiberlene because it works better for ironing, and use the Swix for wiping fine stuff off the edges and base. And blue paper shop towels for things that don't call for fancy paper.


I've never used the Toko fiber.  I'll need to look for some. 

post #67 of 82
It's just what Podium Ski Service had on their wall o' tuning gear. Much more like soft rag paper than the fiber-y Swix fibertex.

I just followed your suggestion and yes, paper around the scraper works great. Wish I'd thought of that!
post #68 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by litterbug View Post

It's just what Podium Ski Service had on their wall o' tuning gear. Much more like soft rag paper than the fiber-y Swix fibertex.

I just followed your suggestion and yes, paper around the scraper works great. Wish I'd thought of that!


You did think of that!  Works good with liquid soft wax and no chance of base damage!  Super clean, super fast. 
Even if you don't wax that day, always brass brush after any skiing.  Just don't leave any litter in our parking lot!

post #69 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post
 

This bit about damaging the structure actually bothered me. I can't believe a PLASTIC scraper is going to damage the base structure even if "hot scraping" unless you are getting the base TOO HOT.  I go for two years between stone grinds and then only ask them to do a light grind for structure.  I think if my scraper was damaging my bases, the structure wouldn't go that long between freshenings.  I ski 70-80 days a year.  

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques View Post
 

As far as scraping goes, be it hot or cold, bases come in different harnesses.   I soft base will smooth easy.  A quality hard base will prove difficult to smooth, or remove structure. 

 

Others on this site have described the dangers of a sharp plastic scraper on bases in terms of the comparative hardness of the materials (i.e., scraper is actually harder).  I'm not sure how much you have to pay to get what Jacques refers to as a "quality hard base" but my Blackeye Ti's apparently don't qualify.   With a newly-sharpened scraper and a little pressure, I can end up with black stuff in the scrapings that at least looks like it came off the base.

 

Sibhusky, you've got an awful lot more experience than I do at this, so maybe I'm smoking something here.  But I've gotten very careful about using thinner scrapers at too much of an angle, because they bend, and look as though they might be digging out the middle of the ski in the process.

post #70 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowObstacle View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post
 

This bit about damaging the structure actually bothered me. I can't believe a PLASTIC scraper is going to damage the base structure even if "hot scraping" unless you are getting the base TOO HOT.  I go for two years between stone grinds and then only ask them to do a light grind for structure.  I think if my scraper was damaging my bases, the structure wouldn't go that long between freshenings.  I ski 70-80 days a year.  

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques View Post
 

As far as scraping goes, be it hot or cold, bases come in different harnesses.   I soft base will smooth easy.  A quality hard base will prove difficult to smooth, or remove structure. 

 

Others on this site have described the dangers of a sharp plastic scraper on bases in terms of the comparative hardness of the materials (i.e., scraper is actually harder).  I'm not sure how much you have to pay to get what Jacques refers to as a "quality hard base" but my Blackeye Ti's apparently don't qualify.   With a newly-sharpened scraper and a little pressure, I can end up with black stuff in the scrapings that at least looks like it came off the base.

 

Sibhusky, you've got an awful lot more experience than I do at this, so maybe I'm smoking something here.  But I've gotten very careful about using thinner scrapers at too much of an angle, because they bend, and look as though they might be digging out the middle of the ski in the process.


As long as you have some structure it's okay.  You just removed some high spots.  Or it could just be graphite wax?  You can still shave a hard base, just it's.....well....harder to do! 

 

On another note it's dumping in the PNW!

post #71 of 82
Or could it be burnt wax? Or dirt? I often see black in the wax that comes off on the Fiberlene before I cool the ski. That would be pre-scrape, so more likely to be dirt or scorched wax. I'll run another pass and usually it's cleaner.

Using a thick scraper, not worried about a little bending.
post #72 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

Or could it be burnt wax? Or dirt? I often see black in the wax that comes off on the Fiberlene before I cool the ski. That would be pre-scrape, so more likely to be dirt or scorched wax. I'll run another pass and usually it's cleaner.

Using a thick scraper, not worried about a little bending.

 

Yeah, a thick scraper is what I went to, just so as not to worry.

 

Hoping it's not burnt wax.  I'm using Dominator hydrocarbon waxes, partly because they don't require particularly high temps.  Dirt's a possibility.  Um, so is graphite, come to think of it.

 

I was discounting those specifically because this only seems to happen with a SHARP (really, really sharp) scraper.   I can feel the difference:  there's a particular feeling to the scraper on a pass where this stuff comes up, much more like cutting something than scraping across the surface.

 

Oh, hell, it's probably all in my head.  But there was an earlier thread wherein it was argued that scrapers are harder than ptex, and so some care is required...

post #73 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques View Post
 


As long as you have some structure it's okay.  You just removed some high spots.  Or it could just be graphite wax?  You can still shave a hard base, just it's.....well....harder to do! 

 

On another note it's dumping in the PNW!


Jacques, if you were North of the border, especially in the Lake Louise/Banff area, you'd have said it's puking in the PNW....  :snowfall

post #74 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoJo23 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques View Post
 


As long as you have some structure it's okay.  You just removed some high spots.  Or it could just be graphite wax?  You can still shave a hard base, just it's.....well....harder to do! 

 

On another note it's dumping in the PNW!


Jacques, if you were North of the border, especially in the Lake Louise/Banff area, you'd have said it's puking in the PNW....  :snowfall


Yea, I'd be in a better country too!   It's only 4200 ft.  Much more higher.  And everyone is packing heat too.

post #75 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdf View Post

Or a cleat. Rope loops through the brakes and down to pull tight through a rope cleat (like you would get from a sailing catalog). I got mine as part of a vice set, but it looks like you could make one easily.


Only problem with that system is as you press, the center flexes down.  Some sort of solid piece is needed to prevent that flex.  I guess a block under the center, then cinch down to the block tight would work.
huh?
Skis have camber or rocker etc. They are not flat in that direction anyway.
post #76 of 82
During the gathering we tuned our skis we tuned our skis with no clamps. .. just two wooden blocks. Kind of annoying but very doable.
post #77 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdf View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdf View Post

Or a cleat. Rope loops through the brakes and down to pull tight through a rope cleat (like you would get from a sailing catalog). I got mine as part of a vice set, but it looks like you could make one easily.


Only problem with that system is as you press, the center flexes down.  Some sort of solid piece is needed to prevent that flex.  I guess a block under the center, then cinch down to the block tight would work.
huh?
Skis have camber or rocker etc. They are not flat in that direction anyway.

Thanks.  I learn something new everyday!  Skis have camber or rocker etc. They are not flat in that direction anyway.

post #78 of 82
Sarcasm is a good response to sarcasm, but why is it a problem if the cinch pulls the center down?
post #79 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdf View Post

Sarcasm is a good response to sarcasm, but why is it a problem if the cinch pulls the center down?


It's not.  I just don't like to work on a base when pressure causes the ski to flex when there is no support.  That's just me as I scrape hard.

post #80 of 82
Ok, makes sense. I think there are different tradeoffs between amount of setup and ease of the actual work, depending on how many skis you tune. Tuning with no clamps at all during the gathering was certainly possible but I would not want to do it that way at home.

I find the cleat with a fair amount of tension means negligible added bending while scraping. Comparing technique with @Near Nyquist in our evening sessions I discovered I may not be brushing with enough pressure. The unsupported middle bent a lot when he brushed (but not during scraping).
post #81 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdf View Post

Ok, makes sense. I think there are different tradeoffs between amount of setup and ease of the actual work, depending on how many skis you tune. Tuning with no clamps at all during the gathering was certainly possible but I would not want to do it that way at home.

I find the cleat with a fair amount of tension means negligible added bending while scraping. Comparing technique with @Near Nyquist in our evening sessions I discovered I may not be brushing with enough pressure. The unsupported middle bent a lot when he brushed (but not during scraping).


Yes, it's going to depend on the flex of the ski.  Soft ski vs stiff ski.  The cleat deal with no center works, it's just not for me.

post #82 of 82
I used an improvised lasso before going big on the Toko world cup vise. I didn't need to crank it down anywhere near tight enough to bend either of my skis.

I suspect that's because my end supports were blocks of wood topped with incredibly sticky rubber shelf liner. If I couldn't swing the commercial vice I'd have screwed the blocks down and cut notches in them for side edge work, which wouldn't have made for a beautiful tuning station but would have been about as secure as my vice.

Here's what I used, in case someone needs a jar opener material/tip and tail support cushion/tool drawer liner/ski base separator. Lay something on a piece of this and it will not slide, no way, no how.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00C2LMN32?cache=64cb99b8c7851c762a28dd77bf93d095#ref=pd_aw_sims_8
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Tuning, Maintenance and Repairs