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Video bank of beginner and intermediate skiers

post #1 of 23
Thread Starter 

Wouldn't it be great if there were a bunch of videos of beginners and intermediates skiing that people here could use for illustrating points when discussing technical points or doing MA?

I'm talking about videos of skiers, anonymous, whose privacy has not been violated, and who can remain anonymous so they aren't publicly humiliated when their video turns up here for years illustrating skiing in the back seat, or banking, or tail-washing.

 

How could that video bank be built legitimately?  Wouldn't it be a great resource?  

Imagine not having to show WC racers every time you need an illustration.

Imagine not having to use them to illustrate hip dumping, for instance, or being in the back seat, but having regular recreational skiers available to illustrate a point.


Epic ought to be able to make this happen.  

post #2 of 23
You're imagining that those skiers would not be suddenly recognized by their other ski buddies?
post #3 of 23

There was a lot of video shot at all of the various ESA's that occurred over the years, and a decent amount of it was posted here on the forums.  The question is, did anybody actually save all that video, or has it long since been erased?

 

Some of it was used for various PSIA-RM training videos.  Ask @Bob Barnes if he still has them.

post #4 of 23

I have some highly incriminating video footage from last year's Eastern Gathering. A small amount of it may have even happened on the mountain.

post #5 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by freeski919 View Post
 

I have some highly incriminating video footage from last year's Eastern Gathering. A small amount of it may have even happened on the mountain.

 

I was hoping that you had burned the video of me standing atop Paradise.  Do you take bribes to erase that segment?  :o

post #6 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

You're imagining that those skiers would not be suddenly recognized by their other ski buddies?

Exactly.  Of course.

Which is why I'm asking how we might do this without people being potentially humiliated or infuriated?

It would be bad to pick up a video of someone on YouTube who put up their video for friends and family and go for the jugular here.  

I know we are capable of doing this, but it's in such poor form.

 

Might folks donate OLD video of themselves to Epic to put in a bank on this forum?  

So old that when our video is being used as an example of doing something we worked hard to get rid of, we can laugh it off even if people recognize us?

post #7 of 23

LF, great ide. Why don't you set up a list of demos and then all of us start to make videos on the hill of people we know but that are not on the forum. Once we tell them what's it for most people will not mind having them up on the site. 

post #8 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post

 

 

Might folks donate OLD video of themselves to Epic to put in a bank on this forum?  

So old that when our video is being used as an example of doing something we worked hard to get rid of, we can laugh it off even if people recognize us?

 

I would, but I have always been such an excellent skier, I don't know if it'll be much good. :bs:

post #9 of 23
Or just have someone good demo the various positions. This way you know who it is but you also know he's good, so no embarrassment involved. Or the demonstrator can always pick up an old set of clothing from salvation army and keep mask on, so nobody really knows who it is.
post #10 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by jzmtl View Post

Or just have someone good demo the various positions. This way you know who it is but you also know he's good, so no embarrassment involved. Or the demonstrator can always pick up an old set of clothing from salvation army and keep mask on, so nobody really knows who it is.

 

You would actually be surprised how hard it is for us instructors to emulate bad form. We have proper technique ingrained into our minds and our muscle memories, and it is difficult to do something we know is wrong. Remember, good skiing is an integrated blend of skills that requires the whole body to be engaged and doing what needs to be done. Well, bad skiing is a whole body effort as well. We can purposely illustrate an inefficient move, but it isn't going to look the same as a skier who is doing it as their normal skiing. It's going to look like one thing out of place in a generally sound system of movements. The actual footage of a beginner and lower intermediate will show the system of unsound movements, and be much different tool. Isolating movements is a great way to learn. But seeing how they contribute to the system as a whole has value as well.

post #11 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinF View Post
 

 

I was hoping that you had burned the video of me standing atop Paradise.  Do you take bribes to erase that segment?  :o

 

Had to get rid of that particular one. Way too long, took up too much HDD space. :D

post #12 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post

 


Epic ought to be able to make this happen.  

Why not just reference youtube clips?

 

PSIA has the Matrix for reference clips, but that's for members.

post #13 of 23

I think LF has a very good idea here. 

It would help many instructors and people looking to improve their skiing as much of the discussion here seems to go round and round clarifying misunderstandings of what posters are trying to describe. A video is worth a thousand words ?

When people post video on this forum they could be asked by private message if they minded their video being added to such a collection.

I guess instructors sometimes take video of their students to help them see how they ski. Why not just ask the student at the time if they mind it being used for this purpose.

I also dont see a problem with analysis of UTube video as I agree with a post in another thread, once you put it on UTube its public domain. If you dont want people to see it dont post it.

I suspect many people wouldnt mind their picture or video being used at all as I think most people understand how they ski doesnt determine who they are . 

If the person in the video wants to change their skiing they may be helped by the discussion . If they dont want to change they probably wont even look at Epic Ski let alone read a technical discussion thread.

Hope this idea gets off the ground.

Cheers Mike

post #14 of 23
Here is me last year, hip dump, A-frame and back plus a thousand other faults you can find

Here is my oldest last year, shuffling too early - another technical fault, this time without hip dumping though.

Cheers
post #15 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by freeski919 View Post

You would actually be surprised how hard it is for us instructors to emulate bad form. We have proper technique ingrained into our minds and our muscle memories, and it is difficult to do something we know is wrong. Remember, good skiing is an integrated blend of skills that requires the whole body to be engaged and doing what needs to be done. Well, bad skiing is a whole body effort as well. We can purposely illustrate an inefficient move, but it isn't going to look the same as a skier who is doing it as their normal skiing. It's going to look like one thing out of place in a generally sound system of movements. The actual footage of a beginner and lower intermediate will show the system of unsound movements, and be much different tool. Isolating movements is a great way to learn. But seeing how they contribute to the system as a whole has value as well.

We could recruit volunteers on Epic, who gets a decent video and MA in return. popcorn.gif
post #16 of 23
Well we've already got people offering up their egos on the sacrificial altar. What would change?
post #17 of 23

Hmmm.   Is what's on youtube really public domain?   Publicly available isn't the same thing at all.  You might want to straighten that out before grabbing video from there for a library.  Pointing to it on youtube would probably be ok, but that would mean if they ever took it down, you'd lose it.

 

Also:  how big a library are you looking to build?  People have posted a few videos over the past three or four years, and for most of those, somebody found something to be improved.  I don't recall that many low-level intermediate examples, though (sloppy definition:  parallel or mostly parallel skiing, possibly (partially-)carved turns, but not "good" skiing).

 

It would only be one entry, but if I can get decent video off my phone to upload, I'll be happy to provide an example of skiing with plenty of "unsound movements."  Or if somebody local with a videocam is motivated to make it happen and we can find a time to meet up (weekends mostly, for me) that works too.

post #18 of 23
I don't think you can download the videos and put it up elsewhere, but link to one and talk about what's in it is fair game (unless it's an unlisted video shared with a specific group and you show it to other people, then it's just bad manners).

But I don't think it's a problem if you take a video cam to the slopes and film random people, no different than filming a street scene, we know there are plenty of them on youtube, most making fun of the subject.
post #19 of 23
Thread Starter 

It is quite offensive to take someone's video off youtube and criticize it here on this forum without their permission.  I don't want to be a part of it.  

 

Exception:  WC skiers and instructional videos.  Somehow that doesn't seem so bad, although I can't figure out my reasoning there.  But those folks don't exhibit the normal recreational skier issues.  Using them to illustrate what most "civilians" out there who might want to improve their skills are doing  --  is a stretch.  Perhaps using such examples contributes to the common thread drift where a simple question triggers heated "discussions" about subtle differences in high end skiing.

 

Using some stranger's video as a prototypical example of rotary push-off (for instance), for years on this forum, with its thousands of viewers, would be crass and inhumane, rude to the max, and just plain unkind.  If there's no law against it, there should be.  We should restrain ourselves in that regard.  

post #20 of 23
There's plenty of beginners and intermediates here. If your planning on getting better, in a few years your videos from now won't matter anyway, they will just be the videos from when you didn't ski as well.

I've taken a lot from here, I can give a few videos. If my ego can't take it, that's just something else I need to work on. I'll see if I can get some. What are you looking for? How do they need to be shot to be good, effective demo videos?
post #21 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post

Wouldn't it be great if there were a bunch of videos of beginners and intermediates skiing that people here could use for illustrating points when discussing technical points or doing MA?
I'm talking about videos of skiers, anonymous, whose privacy has not been violated, and who can remain anonymous so they aren't publicly humiliated when their video turns up here for years illustrating skiing in the back seat, or banking, or tail-washing.

How could that video bank be built legitimately?  Wouldn't it be a great resource?  
Imagine not having to show WC racers every time you need an illustration.
Imagine not having to use them to illustrate hip dumping, for instance, or being in the back seat, but having regular recreational skiers available to illustrate a point.


Epic ought to be able to make this happen.  

There already is. Look for them in youtube CSIA. I wouldn't suggest using them here though. This place gets pretty ugly in MA.
post #22 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sofort99 View Post

There's plenty of beginners and intermediates here. If your planning on getting better, in a few years your videos from now won't matter anyway, they will just be the videos from when you didn't ski as well.

I've taken a lot from here, I can give a few videos. If my ego can't take it, that's just something else I need to work on. I'll see if I can get some. What are you looking for? How do they need to be shot to be good, effective demo videos?

 

Have someone stand half way down a trail, camera looking uptrail.  You ski down, past them, and on to the bottom.  Camera follows you all the way from the top to the bottom.

Do it twice, short turns one time and long turns next time.   That's very generous!

post #23 of 23
Thread Starter 

Does anyone have an idea of how to bank these videos here? Can Epic have a space devoted to these videos?

 

Or is YouTube the place they need to be?

If they are stored on YouTube, then Epic needs a place that has a list of links to the videos, so folks can find them. 

 

Suggestions?

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