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Volkl fans how to mount bindings and tune this ski for Nastar

post #1 of 21
Thread Starter 

Volkl Racetiger GSR World Cup RACE STOCK Skis 177cm

 

With help from all of you I bought this ski for Nastar races and hopefully groomed snow skiing. It is a 2008 womens with a 23 radis.

 

The ski comes flat and untuned. I am told I need to add the bevel to ski and tune it.What bevel should I go with. 

What do you suggest on mounting the binding, cord length or traditional?

The ski comes flat without a plate. Should I add a plate or a riser?

 

Me, 66, 185 lbs expert on groomers, back of the pack Nastar

post #2 of 21

That will be an aggressive beer league ski at that radius if real "race stock" though I like the length.  How tight are the course sets and how steep is the pitch? 

 

Step 1.  Get a solid race binding with an integrated plate or perhaps some kind of riser plate. For your stated ability - a 17 DIN would be minimum.  Not that you will ski on 17 in beer league, but you want a SOLID race type binding.  Racing produces forces and chatter that will "walk" you out of a regular binding.  Skis come and go but a good binding can have a long career.  A good binding will also increase resale value to a Jr racer (or fellow beer leaguer) at a swap.

 

As for bevels, 1 on the bottom and 3 on the sides is pretty standard.  For a bit grabbier ski, .5 on the bottom.  The ski will not "unhook" as readily BUT it will hold a bit better on a icy course.  If you are quick and strong, getting off the edge should not be a problem.  Remember, you cannot ADD material so perhaps start with the .5 and see if it is too hooky for you.  The shop can them knock it up to a 1 if you want.

 

I would have a shop set the initial bevels then hand tune.  Setting a bevel on a new ski by hand can be tedious and inconsistent.  

post #3 of 21
Thread Starter 
Thank you
Hill is small 500 ft vertical not tight in Ohio
What about binding placement
post #4 of 21
I tune to .75 bottom and 3 on the side. Agree with the comment that doing an initial tune by hand is hard work. I have done it but it took a long time. All of my racing skis have plates so I have been able to experiment with binding position. I am happy with the boot mark on the centre mark but I know some skiers who prefer to bit a bit further forward.

A riser plate is the norm but for your specific needs I can't be so sure. My gut feeling is that risers might be more of a hinder than a help but I can't quite explain why. It's just a hunch.

M
post #5 of 21
Start at .5 base and 3 edge. On shorter courses the .5 will hook up quicker (so long as you stay on it!). Personally i would not consider using a race ski without a plate. Remember it has been designed to use one. However, you will need to work out whether youcan still fit one given your other issues
post #6 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotsSkier View Post

Start at .5 base and 3 edge. On shorter courses the .5 will hook up quicker (so long as you stay on it!). Personally i would not consider using a race ski without a plate. Remember it has been designed to use one. However, you will need to work out whether youcan still fit one given your other issues

What is the difference between a race plate and a riser?

post #7 of 21
The race plate is designed to better damp vibrations and enhance the performance of the ski. Provides better and smoother traction in the course. A riser simply lifts you higher on the ski......

Race skis are designed to work with the plate which is why virtually everyone comes fitted with the plate. Volkls are designed to work with the marker piston plate and now ( finally) come with it as standard instead of having to buying separately.
post #8 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotsSkier View Post

The race plate is designed to better damp vibrations and enhance the performance of the ski. Provides better and smoother traction in the course. A riser simply lifts you higher on the ski......

Race skis are designed to work with the plate which is why virtually everyone comes fitted with the plate. Volkls are designed to work with the marker piston plate and now ( finally) come with it as standard instead of having to buying separately.

I have seen several posts where they say they ripped off the Marker setup. 

post #9 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by levy1 View Post
 

I have seen several posts where they say they ripped off the Marker setup. 

 

 

i would be surprised if you saw that from any racer.  the only reference I have seen to that was TDK removing the Marker system binding to fit a piston plate.  Markers get a bad rep because people don't set them up correctly. When you do it right it is an excellent set up, i have been using it very successfully on my GS race skis for 3 seasons.  YMMV

post #10 of 21
Thread Starter 

Thanks for the help!

post #11 of 21

What ScotsSkier says is correct in that the plate reduced vibration and makes the ski stiffer and more stable just under the boot. And (like a riser) it also lifts the boot higher off the ski. This gives a geoemetrical advantage in terms of getting onto the edge of the ski, it also helps prevent "boot out", where the boot touches the snow in extreme angles. The geometrical advantage for angulation sort of assumes you have your boot in the same axis of the ski. What was worrying me is what happens when that isn't the case and whether you might be better/worse off. After more thought I think this isn't the most important issue. Getting your boot higher off the ski is a good idea simply because of the boot out issue. Since your boot isn't lined up with the ski, boot out is much more likely to be a problem with a narrow waisted racing ski.

 

An issue might be that some plates are rather narrower than the ski itself , which might be a problem in getting the fit you want. Another problem is that a lot of plates are already predrilled (sometimes with inserts) for a "normal" installation. There should usually be room to drill your own set-up but I guess you need to check that.

 

Mark

post #12 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperkub View Post
 

What ScotsSkier says is correct in that the plate reduced vibration and makes the ski stiffer and more stable just under the boot. And (like a riser) it also lifts the boot higher off the ski. This gives a geoemetrical advantage in terms of getting onto the edge of the ski, it also helps prevent "boot out", where the boot touches the snow in extreme angles. The geometrical advantage for angulation sort of assumes you have your boot in the same axis of the ski. What was worrying me is what happens when that isn't the case and whether you might be better/worse off. After more thought I think this isn't the most important issue. Getting your boot higher off the ski is a good idea simply because of the boot out issue. Since your boot isn't lined up with the ski, boot out is much more likely to be a problem with a narrow waisted racing ski.

 

An issue might be that some plates are rather narrower than the ski itself , which might be a problem in getting the fit you want. Another problem is that a lot of plates are already predrilled (sometimes with inserts) for a "normal" installation. There should usually be room to drill your own set-up but I guess you need to check that.

 

Mark

Good points, thank you

post #13 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotsSkier View Post
 

 

 

i would be surprised if you saw that from any racer.  the only reference I have seen to that was TDK removing the Marker system binding to fit a piston plate.  Markers get a bad rep because people don't set them up correctly. When you do it right it is an excellent set up, i have been using it very successfully on my GS race skis for 3 seasons.  YMMV

 

I have been skiing with Völkl/Marker for two years now but before I skied 5y with Blizzard/Marker so I have quite a bit of experience with Marker bindings. Even tough I did not quite know how to set up the tension correctly I have never had any pre-release or problem with the ski not coming off when it supposed to. One problem I battled a bit with was the ski-stopper tuck away when boot was clicked into the binding. On the Tyrolias I was using before they tucked and flushed perfectly. On the Markers they seemed to be standing out quite a bit. This was solved when I found out that the Comp20 had a different ski stopper design.

 

The Marker Comp 20 is a solid very well built binding. Its the entry level racing binding so it features metal casing and sturdy design. Set on 11 it releases nicely and I use this setting for free skiing. On a race course I set it to 14-16. Together with the Marker Piston plate they form a very solid combo. A great design feature is that you have pre drilled holes on the plate for easy mounting and binding position tweaking. Its easy for others to try your skis since you can in 1min move the binding with just a screw driver. You can also get away with one binding for several skis. Lets say SL and GS if you don't need to swap skis all the time. One less binding to buy or lug around. I would not go with any other binding/plate combination if not forced on me by a sponsorship deal.

 

I have a very big foot and its therefore also wider. To avoid bootout I put in 3-5mm extra raiser plates between the binding and the plate. I don't use the standard plates, I have made my own. I'm over FIS allowance but it doesn't matter since I don't compete at FIS level. I'm actually at the old FIS level. Nothing radical.

 

Ever since I found out about the Ball Of Foot placement of a binding I have been mounting my plates forwards of the center mark on the ski. On my Heads I had to move the plate as much as 4cm forwards on a pair of cheaters 177cm GS skis. On the Blizzards I had to move them less, about 2cm on SL skis, but through out the years Blizzard moved the center mark forward themselves so in the end it was just a matter of half a cm or so. Today I have a measurement from the tail that I use for all my skis depending on the length. Some of the skis don't even have a center mark anymore.

 

As ScotsSkier wrote I do switch the cheesy all plastic children's toy binding plate combo on the present cheaters GS skis from Völkl. I swap them for the Piston Plate / Marker Comp 20 combo. Makes the ski totally different. Like a real FIS race ski, just a bit softer and turnier. Perfect for club racing.

 

OP should IMO get a Marker Piston Plate and Marker Comp 20. Later he can move the binding/plate to a new ski.

post #14 of 21
Thread Starter 

Thank you for the info

post #15 of 21
Thread Starter 
Just to let just to let everyone know I bought a binding and put it on the ski without the plate and it actually skied horrible I cannot use it so now I'm getting a marker piston plate with a binding
post #16 of 21

No offense Levy, but you're not likely to have boot out issues any time soon. Very few do... even those who think they do.

post #17 of 21
Thread Starter 
I don't understand why you're bringing up the boot out issue
post #18 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by levy1 View Post

I don't understand why you're bringing up the boot out issue

Mentioned in post #13
post #19 of 21
Thread Starter 
Okay thanks but my Boot out days are far far over. I am installing the plate binding to get the right set up for this key to ski correctly
post #20 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by levy1 View Post

Okay thanks but my Boot out days are far far over. I am installing the plate binding to get the right set up for this key to ski correctly

 

 

For 98.9% of anyone in gates, their 'boot out' days never occurred. Tough love, but given the pictures you've posted, you're nowhere near booting out... ever. Not yet.

 

The plate is for ski performance and dampening (your skis are designed for them) and adding some leverage to the edge. 


Edited by markojp - 5/10/14 at 11:31am
post #21 of 21
Thread Starter 
Yes you are correct the only time I ever had a boot out is when I fell over in the snow
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