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Speed - Page 7

post #181 of 204

Posted this over in the Gathering thread by mistake but it works for both.

 

I have a solution.

LaserPower can room with twochordcool at the gathering in Utah. They can then neutralize their concerns. Currently going on over there:

Originally Posted by twochordcool View Post
 

The talk in the middle of the night:

 

Laser: "Hey two..twochord...You awake?"

twochord: "yeah, what? This dry air is killing me...can't sleep!! No one at epic mentioned the air problem!! This will be bad for my back."

 

Laser: "What do you think would happen if tomorrow skiing we come across one of those kidnapped girls who's trying to escape and is crawling out of the snow in the woods dressed in rags.?"

 

two: "Oh man...tough one! Like...like that Elizabeth Smart girl?"

Laser: " Exactly....And right as we're dragging her out of the woods Ski Patrol comes by with a sled"

 

two: " Some random Patroller we don't know? Could be a total A-hole. You just don't know. What if there are two of them?? Double the chance for trouble."

 

Laser: "Yeah...but what if they think we kidnapped her?? Then we'd have a situation that could last all day. Police would come, all that explaining. I doubt they'd believe us, we'd get our pass pulled! They never give you the benefit of the doubt..."

 

two: "No way! Not coming all this way, no sleep with the dry air, back killing me, sleeping with a total stranger...uh...sorry...but yeah let's face it we don't know each other..."

 

Laser: "Yea whatever, it's been three days....get over it....How about something else though...not that they don't believe us, but the Patroller with the sled is not stopping as we flag him down. Would you throw yourself in front of the sled to stop him?"

 

two:  "No way...New skis here that I'm still not sure of after 3 days. I might not like them. Then I've got to sell them. Last time my 4 day used skis were deemed too expensive by the epic people. Wanted $500 and was offered 4. Sold 'em on ebay for 4 and a half."

 

Laser: "They came to your house to pick up?"

two" "No way. Crowded parking lot with cameras!!"

Laser: "Yeah smart...Still....what if just after he pays you the money a meteorite lands on the skis propped on his car. Do you give the money back??"

 

two: "Skis are destroyed?? Geez...no...I mean I don't even know this guy. I barely know you btw....sorry, yeah, I'll get over it....maybe. Anyway...no, I just sold them. Meteorites aren't my problem! Act of God"

 

Laser: "So...back to the patroller...Let's just say your skis are off...I know, tough to imagine, but pretend. Then would you hurl yourself infront of the sled to stop it?"

 

two: " And get run over?? No way. I'd perhaps jump in the back of the sled"

Laser: "But you might get your pass pulled!!"

two: "Well at least I could sell my skis..."

post #182 of 204
And I thought there was just a bus with Keanu and Sandra ...
post #183 of 204

post #184 of 204

Anybody think this is a troll?

LaserPower won't stop, and people keep taking the bait. 

I wonder if he has a bet on how many pages he can drive this thread.

post #185 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by sofort99 View Post

I disagree.

Saying "you are foolish" is the equivalent of saying "you are a fool". Or at least "you are like a fool".

You really should have used "your argument is foolish" if you had wished to convey that. Or ridiculous, etc.

I offer no comment on which case you should have used in terms of accuracy, however, I do have my suspicions.

Thank you sofort99.
post #186 of 204

After sifting and filtering out the noise here, I did not see my rule of thumb; when overtaking a downhill skier one must give them room in direct proportion to the difference in their respective speeds.

If the gapers are thick and the gaps thin, slow down and pass at reasonable opportunities, if they are on one side and nobody is on the other, rip by with plenty of space inbetween.

 

One time in a Chinese downhill after a rope drop to the delayed opening of the major powder chair, a gal on a snowboard just appeared from the trees leaving me no choice but to completely push her down and narrowly avoid grievous injury, there was nothing else I could do.

 

Some yahoo came up to me, PUSHED at me saying it was my fault.  Instead of scrapping over no big deal, I ignored him and went to the chair to do what I was there for.

post #187 of 204
Let me get one thing straight: I again neither have intention of defending reckless skiing, nor practice reckless skiing myself. Just think we should consider small probability events.

I'll just stop here and I'll agree to disagree. I got the ideas through many times. Sadly nobody think that an small probability event still can happen. And I was questioning should we consider the small probability event. If you guys insist on that my example has absolutely 0% chance of happening, then that's fine but I cannot agree because the reason 'it's not real because I have never seen that before' is not good enough to guarantee that event from not happening ever. I would still like to look at people and always assume they have the best possible intentions.
post #188 of 204
Apparently the end of this thread is another small probability event.
post #189 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by DesiredUsername View Post

Apparently the end of this thread is another small probability event.
As is the chance that Laser will understand that his Actuarial tables are irrelevant whether they come true or not.
Laser, if one is truly innocent - as in a meteor landing in front of me caused me to veer into a Patrol accident scene I was trying to avoid...At some point that would come out.
Standby for the next thread titled "Blow". Or "Traffic". Both very good movies- better than "Speed".
post #190 of 204
Low probability event are usually not considered because they are not likely to happen.
post #191 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by sofort99 View Post

Low probability event are usually not considered because they are not likely to happen.

 

I figure as much. Just thought maybe it would be better if we consider them as well in order to be thorough and cover all the aspects. Didn't think that would stir up a hornet's nest... : P

post #192 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaserPower View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by sofort99 View Post

I disagree.

Saying "you are foolish" is the equivalent of saying "you are a fool". Or at least "you are like a fool".

You really should have used "your argument is foolish" if you had wished to convey that. Or ridiculous, etc.

I offer no comment on which case you should have used in terms of accuracy, however, I do have my suspicions.

Thank you sofort99.

Just for the record, where exactly did I say "you are foolish"?
post #193 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Lee View Post


Just for the record, where exactly did I say "you are foolish"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Lee View Post


You impression would be wrong. Please state why you got that impression, or stop your foolishness immediately - either one.

I asked you specific questions above - please answer them. You owe us that after all your ridululous assertions.
 
post #194 of 204
Okay, seriously, do I have to point out the difference between what I actually wrote and "you are foolish"?

And @Tog, your tale was fully deserving of a slow appreciative applause. Well played, sir.
post #195 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Lee View Post

Just for the record, where exactly did I say "you are foolish"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Lee View Post

I am saying you are foolish and ridiculous...
post #196 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by sofort99 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Lee View Post

Just for the record, where exactly did I say "you are foolish"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Lee View Post

I am saying you are foolish and ridiculous...

Ack, I totally forgot that I wrote that. redface.gif Please accept my apologies.
post #197 of 204
icon14.gif
post #198 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaserPower View Post
 

 

I figure as much. Just thought maybe it would be better if we consider them as well in order to be thorough and cover all the aspects. Didn't think that would stir up a hornet's nest... : P

 

Having actually read most of this thread (which is impressive on its own), the term you are looking for wrt accident avoidance and unlikely circumstances -- on or off the slopes -- is reasonable precaution.

 

If you do not take 'reasonable precaution' to avoid causing accidents or otherwise hurting other people, you are negligent and will generally be held responsible for any damage that was caused by your (in)actions*.  If something happens that is so crazy and unpredictable that you cannot have reasonably foreseen it (e.g. your car got hit by a meteor while driving and your brakes instantly failed as a result), you will not be held responsible for any damage that results.  At least assuming you were taking reasonable precautions to begin with.  If you're driving recklessly and then your brakes failed, you're probably still in trouble.

 

'Reasonable precaution' is roughly defined as the sort of precautions that an average, reasonable person would take in the same situation.  Note that this can vary depending on the person's background.  A highly experienced skier -- especially a professional like a patroller or instructor -- might be held to a higher behavioral standard than a novice.

 

I think Bob's point is that unless there are some kind of crazy extenuating circumstances like the accident scene not being visible from above, getting anywhere NEAR an accident at ANY kind of speed means you were not taking reasonable precaution by default.  'Oops, I slipped on some ice and plowed into the accident scene at 50MPH' is not a reasonable excuse IMO.  If you could see the patrollers from far away and they were obviously waving people off and telling them to slow down, you should have slowed WAY down WELL before you got to the point where a single mistake would cause you to collide with them.  'Someone else collided with me from behind and caused me to slide into the accident scene' MIGHT get you off the hook and put the blame on the person who hit you.  Or you might both be at fault, depending on the details.

 

In terms of 'pass pulling' (as opposed to actual civil liability for injuries caused), unless the resort in question is owned by a governmental entity they can set their own standards for when to pull passes.  I would not expect ski patrol to have a lot of sympathy for anyone that even comes close to colliding with a patroller on scene.  You'd better have a damned good excuse if you don't want to lose your pass at least temporarily.

 

In general, I would expect the vast majority of patrollers to be able to tell when someone is in control and taking reasonable precaution a very high percentage of the time.  Are they going to be perfect?  No.  You're also not supposed to be skiing in a way that you're constantly toeing the line of what is allowable behavior.  If you don't ski like that you shouldn't have any problems.

 

*In some places, the standard for liability while involved in recreational activities like skiing is recklessness, which is hard to define exactly but is typically a 'worse' version of negligence (but still not as bad as injuring someone intentionally).  For FAR more discussion than you probably want on this topic, see: http://www.epicski.com/t/115343/good-verdict-or-bad-verdict-skier-lawsuit-dismissed

post #199 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthias99 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaserPower View Post
 

 

I figure as much. Just thought maybe it would be better if we consider them as well in order to be thorough and cover all the aspects. Didn't think that would stir up a hornet's nest... : P

 

In terms of 'pass pulling' (as opposed to actual civil liability for injuries caused), unless the resort in question is owned by a governmental entity they can set their own standards for when to pull passes.  I would not expect ski patrol to have a lot of sympathy for anyone that even comes close to colliding with a patroller on scene.  You'd better have a damned good excuse if you don't want to lose your pass at least temporarily.

 

Excuse?

That would be the meteorites and stuff like this: (lol, you just can't make this up and be believed)

 

Cops: Worker Drained Pool on Road, Caused Crashes

 

Cops: Worker Drained Pool on Road, Caused Crashes

 

Quote:

http://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/local/Cops-Worker-Drained-Pool-on-Road-Caused-Crashes---239605041.html
 

Police in Connecticut said a pool company worker drained an in-ground swimming pool onto a road in freezing temperatures and caused several car crashes. He's been arrested.

...

Bahena-Benitez works Swimm Pool and Patio in Darien company and was draining a pool in Westview Lane with a hose and ran the hose to Flax Hill Avenue, police said.

 

Police said they were called to Flax Hill Road on Thursday morning after a 69-year-old Norwalk woman's car hit a guardrail because the road became icy after Bahena-Benitez emptied the pool.

 

An SUV another Norwalk woman was driving spun out shortly afterward and was struck by a car. Another vehicle struck the SUV and then hit an oncoming city salt truck. One person was taken to the hospital but no one was seriously hurt.

 

post #200 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthias99 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaserPower View Post
 

 

I figure as much. Just thought maybe it would be better if we consider them as well in order to be thorough and cover all the aspects. Didn't think that would stir up a hornet's nest... : P

 

In terms of 'pass pulling' (as opposed to actual civil liability for injuries caused), unless the resort in question is owned by a governmental entity they can set their own standards for when to pull passes.  I would not expect ski patrol to have a lot of sympathy for anyone that even comes close to colliding with a patroller on scene.  You'd better have a damned good excuse if you don't want to lose your pass at least temporarily.

 

Excuse?

That would be the meteorites and stuff like this: (lol, you just can't make this up and be believed)

 

Cops: Worker Drained Pool on Road, Caused Crashes

 

Cops: Worker Drained Pool on Road, Caused Crashes

 

Quote:

http://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/local/Cops-Worker-Drained-Pool-on-Road-Caused-Crashes---239605041.html
 

Police in Connecticut said a pool company worker drained an in-ground swimming pool onto a road in freezing temperatures and caused several car crashes. He's been arrested.

...

Bahena-Benitez works Swimm Pool and Patio in Darien company and was draining a pool in Westview Lane with a hose and ran the hose to Flax Hill Avenue, police said.

 

Police said they were called to Flax Hill Road on Thursday morning after a 69-year-old Norwalk woman's car hit a guardrail because the road became icy after Bahena-Benitez emptied the pool.

 

An SUV another Norwalk woman was driving spun out shortly afterward and was struck by a car. Another vehicle struck the SUV and then hit an oncoming city salt truck. One person was taken to the hospital but no one was seriously hurt.

 


You never know.  I used to drive this one back road to work that had a somewhat blind 50 kph (about 30 mph) corner that I used to always drift through at 60 mph.  One find day I discovered the turn exit was covered in ice because the farmer living there felt a need to flood the road.  I don't know what he was emptying, but it made for an exciting ride.  Lucky for me the road didn't have much traffic and I had two lanes to play in.

post #201 of 204

Beginners who go straight down black diamonds... I saw two VERY disturbing things while skiing today. First thing: Some guy bringing his young kids to a double black. they snowploughed straight down. They're lucky they didn't take someone out. Second thing: A guy who must've started skiing that very morning does the exact same thing as the kids, although he isn't 50lbs he's more like 200lbs so there's a ton more momentum. So, this guy couldn't stop or turn, or so it seemed and he was flying down the hill. I'm talking 50+ mph. I see this dude zoom past me and ram straight into the lift line. Well did he not cause some damage. He took out at least 5 people. It was practically human bowling. Some people should just stick to the bunny hill so they don't end up killing anyone. Honestly...

post #202 of 204

I hate that kids seem to get a pass on this stuff just because they are little. When something happens, its always the adult who gets blamed and honestly every wreck ive ever had on the slopes involving other skiers has been a situation of a kid skiing out of control.

 

It sucks for me because my favorite thing to do when i ski is to go fast and ski steep groomed runs. Thats just how I get my buzz from skiing, speed and being on my edges. 

 

Unfortunately these are the type of runs the above mentioned behavior occurs. I've actually been trying to get into mogul skiing just to be able to enjoy less crowded areas of the slopes. 

 

I really dont understand the parents who put their kids on these black diamond runs when they clearly aren't ready. Why put your kid at risk and ruin everyone else's skiing, It would be cool if there was some sort of competence test you had to pass to get on the blacks. Logisitically impossible I know, but I wouldnt be opposed to having ski patrol pull some of these people, kids and adults alike off of the harder runs if it was apparent that they werent ready to ski them

post #203 of 204

The way I see it, it isn't as important how FAST they are going as much as how CLOSE they are to other people. For example, if the trail is wide enough and there are few enough people that the kids can ski at speed safely, all the power to them. However, more often than not in my experience, they fly down the slopes without any attention to 1) turning skiiers, 2) each other, 3) others going their same speed, and have personally witnessed at least three rather violent collisions due to excessive speed and lack of attentiveness to one's surroundings.

post #204 of 204
"I can ski. I just can't turn or stop."
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