or Connect
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Fear of heights on lifts - Page 2

post #31 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossi Smash View Post
 

 

You can thank the media (or your mother!).

 

You need to stop listening to them  :eek


Nah, I was the youngest of 4 and ran wild (literally) on my pony, then my horse and my mom was definitely not the mother hen type. I had no fear on the pony or horses back then. I do think it's genetic as my daughter is exactly the same way. But it doesn't stop us, just holds us back a little I suppose. Could be worse. We could both be couch potatoes! I'm incredibly cautious but still have a blast, and I AM improving. Is it possible to be a chicken S*it but still be an adrenaline addict? At the very least, I get high off the endorphins from exercise and the outdoors.    

 

tanscrazydaisy does what I do on lifts--bar down, don't look down, and BREATH! It helps to strike up a conversation if I'm riding alone with strangers. I had a moment last year at Mammoth (which is notoriously windy) on a lift that they closed down shortly after, where we came over the crest and just got lambasted (slow lift) and were rocking side-to-side. I grabbed the back of the chair and cursed many choice words. Got off and was fine.

post #32 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdog View Post
 

This happened over many years since I have been in the business for many years and I didn't say where they happened but you are dead wrong about our maintenance here. That is what happens when you make assumptions. Did you ever see an idiot swing a chair and cause a derailment? It happens and has  nothing to do with maintenance. Our maintenance guy is one of three in the country that knows Von Roll  Trams inside out , no wait one of them died so that leaves two. Check it out with the Swiss boys if you doubt me or check with Willis insurance. Dan Flescher is their lift guy that does the lift inspections for Mountain Guard. Geograpy doesn't always equal experience. BTW our tram has  operated since 1973 without a major incident and runs year round.


 Alright, if its not your maintenance, it is the design of the lifts. No, I have never seen anybody swing a chair that would even come close to derailing the cable. It terrifies me that your lifts are so poorly made that a single chair swinging can lift the cable off the wheels. Seriously, multiple derailments, there is something very, very wrong. I've worked at mountains for years, and the thought of one derailment is unspeakable. Multiple? That's bad. Very bad.

 

If your lift was designed by a reputable manufacturer (Poma, Leitner, Doppelmayer, etc), then its not the design. If it isn't the design, its maintenance. Chairlifts do not derail without a significant failure somewhere along the line.

post #33 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by freeski919 View Post
 


 Alright, if its not your maintenance, it is the design of the lifts. No, I have never seen anybody swing a chair that would even come close to derailing the cable. It terrifies me that your lifts are so poorly made that a single chair swinging can lift the cable off the wheels. Seriously, multiple derailments, there is something very, very wrong. I've worked at mountains for years, and the thought of one derailment is unspeakable. Multiple? That's bad. Very bad.

 

If your lift was designed by a reputable manufacturer (Poma, Leitner, Doppelmayer, etc), then its not the design. If it isn't the design, its maintenance. Chairlifts do not derail without a significant failure somewhere along the line.

There again I didn't say they were here and once again you are assuming and swinging a chair will generally trip out a limit switch long before an issue and please consider that I was a ski patroller back in 1970 and lifts have improved. I know of a pinion gear breaking on a lift and causing several injuries but that was in another decade. I once helped evac a lift by pulling it backwards because the brake was so weak you could do that but please note it has nothing to do with the present and our lifts. 

  In the old days we had to de-splinter the old Savio lifts every day since they were made of pine trees and baling wire and greased with Mastadon lard.

For the record and to clarify we have never had a derailment at least not in my employment history.

post #34 of 53

...swinging chairs.... DUDE!!!

 

post #35 of 53

Look up YAN lifts. Don't know if there are any left.

I think the Heavenly Valley lift derailment in 1981 was a YAN.  I rode that lift the day before the accident and as soon as I loaded it started swinging badly enough that I decided not to ride it any more. Interestingly, when I was looking up the accident (http://www.illicitsnowboarding.com/2010/07/visual-compendium-of-ski-lift-accidents.html ) the write up blamed the accident on people swinging the chairs, which is BS. It was swinging on its own--poor alignment of the loading ramp perhaps? 

The article I cited is a list of lift accidents (not all skiing related) since 1949--pretty short list considering.

 

Ski lift maintenance has become much more complicated--requires both computer and mechanical skills--mechatronics. Sierra College has a program--I recall reading that recruiters were pulling people out of finals to sign contracts. 

 

Freeski--I love it when people make blanket judgments without knowing any of the facts of the incidents they are judging.

post #36 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldgoat View Post
 

Look up YAN lifts. Don't know if there are any left.

I think the Heavenly Valley lift derailment in 1981 was a YAN.  I rode that lift the day before the accident and as soon as I loaded it started swinging badly enough that I decided not to ride it any more. Interestingly, when I was looking up the accident (http://www.illicitsnowboarding.com/2010/07/visual-compendium-of-ski-lift-accidents.html ) the write up blamed the accident on people swinging the chairs, which is BS. It was swinging on its own--poor alignment of the loading ramp perhaps? 

The article I cited is a list of lift accidents (not all skiing related) since 1949--pretty short list considering.

 

Ski lift maintenance has become much more complicated--requires both computer and mechanical skills--mechatronics. Sierra College has a program--I recall reading that recruiters were pulling people out of finals to sign contracts. 

 

Freeski--I love it when people make blanket judgments without knowing any of the facts of the incidents they are judging.

 

Yeah, YAN was the one in the Keystone accident back in the 80s.

post #37 of 53

 

I have got to say the double lifts at Mt. Spokane with no bar freak me out when I am riding with my 5 year old daughter.  We have never had anything even resembling an issue, but I death grip her harness the entire way up.

post #38 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by contesstant View Post
 


And I myself need to pick up this book to read because I still have great fears when skiing. NOT related to having a child. I'm just a chicken *hit! ;) Terrified of getting hurt whether while skiing, or mountain biking, or riding new horses.

 

Interesting. I used to race DH at the international level, and still do at the Masters level. I ride mt. bikes DH fast, but I don't know if I'll ever get on a horse again after Maggie (the horse on the Phish album HOIST) wouldn't let me ride her. Of course a few days before she tossed me, Christopher Reeves had had his fateful accident.

 

Fear is a funny thing.

post #39 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by MastersRacer View Post
 

 

Interesting. I used to race DH at the international level, and still do at the Masters level. I ride mt. bikes DH fast, but I don't know if I'll ever get on a horse again after Maggie (the horse on the Phish album HOIST) wouldn't let me ride her. Of course a few days before she tossed me, Christopher Reeves had had his fateful accident.

 

Fear is a funny thing.

 

Yeah, who said something about control? tpj? I won't sled. I will ski through all sorts of terrain skiing and think nothing of it, but I will. not. sled.

post #40 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by MastersRacer View Post
 

 

Interesting. I used to race DH at the international level, and still do at the Masters level. I ride mt. bikes DH fast, but I don't know if I'll ever get on a horse again after Maggie (the horse on the Phish album HOIST) wouldn't let me ride her. Of course a few days before she tossed me, Christopher Reeves had had his fateful accident.

 

Fear is a funny thing.


Certainly a lot of it has to do with things you learned as a kid. And funny, I always hear "I rode a horse...once...then it dumped me." I was never afraid to get dumped as a kid. My pony dumped me the first time I got on her, and I promptly kicked her in the belly from the ground and crawled back on and she was fine. She dumped me many times after that, but it never deterred me.

 

But I HATE falling while skiing.

post #41 of 53

I was a particularly wimpy kid. At summer camp they gave me the gentlest horse they had, Big Red. One day while I was riding him, Big Red keeled over and died. Now I'm a particularly wimpy adult.

post #42 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldgoat View Post
 

I was a particularly wimpy kid. At summer camp they gave me the gentlest horse they had, Big Red. One day while I was riding him, Big Red keeled over and died. Now I'm a particularly wimpy adult.


Seriously? Died while you were ON him? What did you do to him? ;)

post #43 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by contesstant View Post
 


Seriously? Died while you were ON him? What did you do to him? ;)


Perhaps they ate him hahahaha.  Camping makes kids hungry!

post #44 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldgoat View Post
 

Look up YAN lifts. Don't know if there are any left.

 

There are still a ton of Yan installs in Colorado. Loveland is mostly YAN lifts- Chair 1, 2, 6, 7, 8 are all Yan.

 

Arapahoe Basin is another Yan stronghold. Molly Hogan, Pallavicini, Norway are all Yan, and Exhibition was as well.

 

Copper Mountain looks like another Yan stronghold.

 

Keystone- yet another, although most of them have been removed. I wonder if the Teller lift accident was one of the reasons that they tore our almost all of their fixed grip lifts (almost all of which were Yan) in the late 1990's?

 

Hey look, Steamboat also made the Yan mistake, although most have been removed.

 

Eagle Wind at WP is Yan.

 

Taking a lot of my information from here- it is several years out of date but you get the picture of who bought Yan lifts.

http://www.coloradoskihistory.com/chairlift/liftnews/locations.htm

 

The good news is that no Yan detachables were ever installed in Colorado.  The tramway board looked at the grip design and said hell no.

 

The design of the fixed-grip lifts are solid and I am comfortable riding them. The issues that arose from fixed grip were Yan's questionable installation practices (having non-experts weld bullwheels in parking lots like the Teller tragedy), but the lift design is ok.  I consider the existing lift installations to have been around enough to show that they were installed adequately.

post #45 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by anachronism View Post
 

 

There are still a ton of Yan installs in Colorado. Loveland is mostly YAN lifts- Chair 1, 2, 6, 7, 8 are all Yan.

 

Arapahoe Basin is another Yan stronghold. Molly Hogan, Pallavicini, Norway are all Yan, and Exhibition was as well.

 

Copper Mountain looks like another Yan stronghold.

 

Keystone- yet another, although most of them have been removed. I wonder if the Teller lift accident was one of the reasons that they tore our almost all of their fixed grip lifts (almost all of which were Yan) in the late 1990's?

 

Hey look, Steamboat also made the Yan mistake, although most have been removed.

 

Eagle Wind at WP is Yan.

 

Taking a lot of my information from here- it is several years out of date but you get the picture of who bought Yan lifts.

http://www.coloradoskihistory.com/chairlift/liftnews/locations.htm

 

The good news is that no Yan detachables were ever installed in Colorado.  The tramway board looked at the grip design and said hell no.

 

The design of the fixed-grip lifts are solid and I am comfortable riding them. The issues that arose from fixed grip were Yan's questionable installation practices (having non-experts weld bullwheels in parking lots like the Teller tragedy), but the lift design is ok.  I consider the existing lift installations to have been around enough to show that they were installed adequately.

How do they service these lifts and get parts?

The 1981 derailment at Heavenly was a YAN fixed grip. I had ridden that lift many times in the past when there was no swinging, but the day before the accident the chairs were swinging as soon as you left the loading ramp. There was no wind that day or the next. So obviously there was something wrong with the way the loading ramp was constructed. I have been on other, non YAN chairs where ramp construction seemed to cause undo swinging, but none as bad as the Heavenly one and none derailed. Whether lift design should have prevented the derailment caused by poor ramp orientation I am not qualified to answer. I don't know if there have been other YAN fixed grip accidents. The fact that the lifts you mention have not had problems in the decades since they have been installed certainly suggests that they are safe, but if you notice one that seems to be swinging a lot I suggest you not ride it again, and tell someone.

post #46 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldgoat View Post

I was a particularly wimpy kid. At summer camp they gave me the gentlest horse they had, Big Red. One day while I was riding him, Big Red keeled over and died. Now I'm a particularly wimpy adult.

My older brother is a good athlete but never took to riding horses. As kids at a family member's stable he would get put on a gentle male pony while we rode horses. Unfortunately my brother had the effect of arousing this pony to the point where you could tell from about 100 yards away.

I'm pretty sure he would rather have had the pony die beneath him rather than have his sibs get a lifetime trump card anytime the teasing starts.
post #47 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldgoat View Post
 

How do they service these lifts and get parts?

 

 

The same way that all of the other ski areas service lifts with manufacturers that are no longer around- Riblet, Hall, etc.  There are still places to buy replacement parts, and generally stuff built to this type of scale is rebuildable, over and over again.

 

I do think operators have a low opinion of Yan lifts- it seems many are getting torn out relatively early in their service lives- most of the lifts built in the 1970's and 1980's have been replaced, while a ton of Riblets and Halls from 1960's and 1970's vintages continue to soldier on until capacity issues warrant their replacement.

 

Then again, when Echo Mountain reopened in 2005, the lift they chose to install was a used Yan triple...

post #48 of 53

One thing that struck me the couple of times I was in Chamonix was the number of really ancient lifts--the Aiguille du Midi cable car for starters, which apparently is a bone of contention between the local guides and the ski company. The cable car from the Mer de Glace to the Montenvers train station is another relic (or at least it used to go up from the Mer de Glace--now the ever increasing climb up to the lift is several hundred feet). The Arp gondola looks like something out of the 19th century and the Heilbrenner cable car on the Italian side of the Vallee Blanche was decrepit as well, although I think they just replaced it. I haven't skied elsewhere in Europe or all over the states, and while I did see fairly new lifts as well over there, I think in general our lifts are newer, perhaps because theirs are often much longer and therefore more expensive to replace. (And as far as cable cars go, the French can fit a whole lot more people into a given space than we do. Their idea of personal  space extends to the highways as well.)

post #49 of 53

Same story for my wife. I think Contessa nailed it. After becoming a mother she was much more aware of the need to keep herself safe. Same story with driving as well as chair lifts. It didn't help that she fell off a chair lift due to a seizure!  A lot of the fears of skiing are rational, though terror of chair lifts isn't among those rational fears. Desensitization is the gold standard and can be attempted with guidance of self help books. Most people don't need professional therapy for this, and I'm very much in that business, but you do need to be highly motivated to overcome the problem. 

post #50 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldgoat View Post
 

One thing that struck me the couple of times I was in Chamonix was the number of really ancient lifts--the Aiguille du Midi cable car for starters, which apparently is a bone of contention between the local guides and the ski company. The cable car from the Mer de Glace to the Montenvers train station is another relic (or at least it used to go up from the Mer de Glace--now the ever increasing climb up to the lift is several hundred feet). The Arp gondola looks like something out of the 19th century and the Heilbrenner cable car on the Italian side of the Vallee Blanche was decrepit as well, although I think they just replaced it. I haven't skied elsewhere in Europe or all over the states, and while I did see fairly new lifts as well over there, I think in general our lifts are newer, perhaps because theirs are often much longer and therefore more expensive to replace. (And as far as cable cars go, the French can fit a whole lot more people into a given space than we do. Their idea of personal  space extends to the highways as well.)

 

I'm not sure that's true based on my experiences with the Tram at JHMR.  It's pretty crowded and the limit seems to be imposed by the engineering specs rather than some sense of personal space.

post #51 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by tetonpwdrjunkie View Post
 

 

I'm not sure that's true based on my experiences with the Tram at JHMR.  It's pretty crowded and the limit seems to be imposed by the engineering specs rather than some sense of personal space.

I've been in Jackson tram. No comparison. And not too many people on the Jackson tram are wearing ice screws and carrying ice axes and crampons (but at least in Cham your pack with the ice axe and crampons is supposed to go on the floor.

post #52 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by contesstant View Post
 


I had a moment last year at Mammoth (which is notoriously windy) on a lift that they closed down shortly after, where we came over the crest and just got lambasted (slow lift) and were rocking side-to-side. I grabbed the back of the chair and cursed many choice words. Got off and was fine.

 

Had something similar happen there on the Cloud 9 lift.  It was pretty calm and then we came over the ridge and it was gusting.  The (I think 6 person) chair clanked into the lift station or something and I thought for a split second we had fallen.


~S

post #53 of 53

Sorry I'm a little late with a response but just joined and started to read some of the threads.  Google  EFT (emotional freedom technique).  Has some merit.  It's about


entering new thoughts and emotions into the nervous system by tapping acupuncture points as you recite positive affirmation's having to do with your fears.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: General Skiing Discussion