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Cruising turns across whole run or staying in a "lane"

post #1 of 26
Thread Starter 
Was skiing the other day making big cruising turns across the run. A guy I was skiing with says " if you try to keep your turns to a lane or segment of the run, rather than using the whole width, it will improve your skiing". Is there any thoughts about this? I can make short turns without a problem, but have never heard this before.
post #2 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by spaley17 View Post

Was skiing the other day making big cruising turns across the run. A guy I was skiing with says " if you try to keep your turns to a lane or segment of the run, rather than using the whole width, it will improve your skiing". Is there any thoughts about this? I can make short turns without a problem, but have never heard this before.

 

Sure. Writing a sonnet or a villanelle or even a limerick is a good exercise for a poet, even if his or her free verse is already excellent. That's one part of what makes racing interesting.

post #3 of 26
Here I thought someone was trying to resuscitate the Grey/red thread..
post #4 of 26
Thread Starter 
So I should take a break from my novel and write a short story? smile.gif
post #5 of 26

This could be an interesting thread.  I sorta miss red and gray.

post #6 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by spaley17 View Post

So I should take a break from my novel and write a short story? smile.gif

No man, a poem about racing.  I'll start:

 

A man in Spandex from Maine,

post #7 of 26
Thread Starter 
Lol. I suck at writing; Just can't figure out wtf the guy was trying to get at. When I asked him, he mentioned something about using the terrain better. I told him he made no sense to me.
post #8 of 26
You were in his line. :-)
post #9 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by bumpfreaq View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spaley17 View Post

So I should take a break from my novel and write a short story? smile.gif

No man, a poem about racing.  I'll start:

 

A man in Spandex from Maine,


usually is a terrible pain

post #10 of 26
Hey! (And how did I end up in Spandex, anyway?)
post #11 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

You were in his line. :-)

Actually, he was way downhill of me. I am always careful about right of way, looking uphill when entering a run and generally watching out for others. I don't think this is what he was getting at and just wondering if anyone had any thoughts on this.
post #12 of 26

....

 

when Ricardo Snowman in red

and Vitamin Ski in grey

slammed into each other one day

post #13 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by spaley17 View Post


Actually, he was way downhill of me. I am always careful about right of way, looking uphill when entering a run and generally watching out for others. I don't think this is what he was getting at and just wondering if anyone had any thoughts on this.

 

Just a guess since I haven't seen video. But he may have seen a dead zone in your turn. Chop out the dead zones. By the time you're at the end of the old arc, you should already be into the new arc. 

post #14 of 26

Well put metaphor.  I always use pedaling a bicycle to express this problem.  You don't push down on the pedal, pause and then push down on the other pedal, there's a continuous motion.  Same thing in skiing, the direct analogy being  short leg/long leg - but as you say, the traverse across the hill can be a static pause of sorts.

 

Kind of like walking up a flight of stairs and putting both feet on the same step between steps.

post #15 of 26
Thread Starter 
That makes sense as I was feeling like I was taking too much time in transition. I like to float a bit in transition, but now that I think about it, I was lagging and could feel the energy loss going into the new turns. What's a good trigger to minimize that?
post #16 of 26

Outside of being in the way of others, feel free to turn however you'd like. :)

 

 

Short, sharp, slurved, it's all good. Sometimes it's sweet to make big sweepers, and even slide!

 

 

OP, what's the goal? What are/were you trying to accomplish, how well did you execute? Where did you miss? How will you adjust. 

post #17 of 26

As soon as you start a turn and feel the pressure building up under the outside ski (downhill ski) start to think about softening up and releasing that skis grip on the snow.  Don't "brace against the equipment" subtly shift your weight to the uphill ski (on it's little toe edge - LTE) which will soon roll over and become the new outside ski.

 

My trigger is to try to let go of the turn a little sooner and build up pressure on the new turn sooner.

post #18 of 26

Well, you should be able to feel when you're in a dead zone - you lose the big pressure under your ski. That's one good physical cue. Just remember that you want to be constantly skiing one arc into the next without any dead zones or braking movements.

 

Get a friend to call out to you "turn!" every time you enter a dead spot. Note the feeling in your legs when they call out a dead spot, and how it differs from when you're skiing strong. Over time, have your friend call out turns slightly preemptively. 

 

Ski under the chair and spot your tracks on the way up to see how you're doing. (I will do something like skiing a set of 4 turns directly under the chair or arc around the tower to mark my tracks. don't hit the tower.)

 

Use your pole plant to cue the end of the turn, rather than the start of a turn. When you plant you'll immediately be moving into the next turn. Gradually move your plant a bit further up until your dead zone is gone. 

 

Given that apparently your short radius is good (based on the guy skiing below you), ski short radius turns, then slow down the mechanics, focusing on drawing arcs in the snow with your skis (ie constantly turning). 

 

 

lots of options :)

post #19 of 26
Thread Starter 
Your insights are great. Now that I have had time to think about it, during that run, I definitely felt like i was losing energy between turns. I know the feeling of using energy from one turn to begin the next, but its not automatic in my skiing 100% of the time. Also, my bigger radius turns are easier for me as everything happens at a slower pace. My short turns actually need more work as I am not consistant in my form since the movements occur at a faster pace.
post #20 of 26

That dead spot or loss of energy you are feeling is your feet moving ahead of your center, you quit moving with the skis and end up in the back seat.

post #21 of 26

Learning to make active big turns will improve your skiing. It is an exercise in patience and pressure control.

 

Making big, edge to edge turns without falling into the dead zone or 'set and forget' is challenging. You have to ease into and out of each turn so that you are building or reducing pressure throughout the turn. This is active skiing. Set and forget turns (aka 'park and ride') lack energy; transition, set the edge, hold edge until the turn is complete is static skiing. The ski is simply tracking without any significant input from the skier apart from the edge change.

 

Imagine that you are linking short turns down the fall line. Then let the turns get longer. The pressure build up leading to the apex of the turn will occur over a longer distance, but the amount of pressure relative to your position in the turn will be similar. Ditto after the apex when you are moving into transition. By the time you reach the end of the turn you'll be ready to switch edges and resume the build-up/release cycle.

 

Start with 7 - 10 m turns and gradually build up to 20 m turns. Short turns feel very 'punchy' because you develop and release pressure quickly. Long active turns will take similar pressure increases and decreases and spread them over more time and space, but in the final analysis, you'll have experienced a similar range of fluid motion in the turn whether it was 5 m or 20 m.

 

Feel the snow passing under you skis. Maintain contact with the snow so that your skis are traveling over the micro-terrain of the slope actively adjusting for its ups and downs, rather than having the slope rise and fall away from your skis creating sudden increases and decreases in snow pressure and contact.

post #22 of 26

Great post MR!

post #23 of 26

Making turns down the hill in a lane of shrinking width until you can shrink it no more is one of many good drills.  Doing drills is good, so long as you don't over do it.  All work and no play makes for a dull day.

post #24 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by spaley17 View Post
I can make short turns without a problem, but have never heard this before.

Yes but can you engage the downhill edges of your skis at the top part of your short turns? Practice does not make perfect.

post #25 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRusty View Post

Yes but can you engage the downhill edges of your skis at the top part of your short turns? Practice does not make perfect.

Generally yes, but my short turns are not consistent. I can generally form the hi-c, but depending on the steepness of the run, the first few turns are okay and then a few sloppy ones find their way in until I consciously get back on track.

I'm trying to get to the point where i don't have to think about short turn corrections. Obviously, more practice is needed, and the tips here from all are great and most appreciated.

Any further short-turn tips are welcome.
post #26 of 26

There's not enough information here for specific tips. There are too many possible things and combinations to consider to send you in a worthwhile direction. Often times, issues that appear in short turns need to be worked in longer turns, even though the longer turns are "fine". You can make great short turns with unconscious competence and still be blown away watching someone with a much higher level of performance in their short turns. PSIA recommends teaching to the specific needs of the individual vs "one size fits all" types of drills like "short turns will improve your skiing". Without more details or video we can only guess at what advice might help your skiing reach the next level of performance.

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