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clamping diamond stone and side edge guide

post #1 of 21
Thread Starter 

 I recently bought a bigger clamp to hold together my diamond stones and side edge guide, since what I had before was too small and wouldn't reach the diamond stone. This clamp is very tight and hard to open, but the real problem is that it holds the stone slightly at an angle. If I get it in the right spot, I think it fits mostly flat, but I'm not left with a lot of diamond stone hanging over to sharpen with. I have done the test with a permanent marker to see where the edge is being sharpened, and there were times where only half of the marker was removed after only a few passes. Am I better off not using a clamp and only relying on my fingers with the side edge guide?

 

Another related question. How many passes should I be making with a stone along the edge?


Edited by nemesis256 - 12/29/13 at 4:03pm
post #2 of 21

Use two clamps.  I always do.  One at each end.  I put one at 90 to the guide and one at 180.  The 180 one is the one closest to me

 

There is no set # of passes.  Listen to each pass.  You can hear it.  The quieter the better.  If you make a few passes and the sound is the same from tip to tail, it is probably time to go to the next stone.  The more often you do this, the better you'll understand when it's done.

 

Have fun,

Ken

post #3 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by nemesis256 View Post

 
…This clamp is very tight and hard to open...


Use your whole hand to control the clamp. You will get the feel of where to position the stones in short order, but they do need to be flat on the guide.



post #4 of 21

 

 

I do not do this. What is the sense of the clamp if you are going to hold it on the clamp too. 

 

No, you clamp the stone at an angle with the clamp up towards the top of the stone or file and then place your thumb over the stone or file down lower directly over where it contacts the edge and wrap your other fingers around and the under the tool. 

 

this gives you the clamp pressure plus your thumb pressure which is directly over the edge and this ensures the stone/file is secure in the tool and flat against the tool. Also is much more difficult to have the stone file to roll off the edge and screw up your freshly tuned edge!

 

The storne/file goes at about a 45 degree angle. The skis should be on your right side edge you are working on facing up and bases facing away from you. 

post #5 of 21
no disagreement

read what was being responded to, A-man

[edit]

I see I wasn't clear above.

I was simply showing to how to get more leverage on a strong clamp, not how to hold the guide while using it on the ski.
post #6 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post
 

No, you clamp the stone at an angle with the clamp up towards the top of the stone or file and then place your thumb over the stone or file down lower directly over where it contacts the edge and wrap your other fingers around and the under the tool. 

 

this gives you the clamp pressure plus your thumb pressure which is directly over the edge and this ensures the stone/file is secure in the tool and flat against the tool. Also is much more difficult to have the stone file to roll off the edge and screw up your freshly tuned edge!

It sounds like you're trying to apply as much pressure as the clamp to hold the stone flat. I need to avoid doing this, due to tendinitis in my hands, I can't apply that much pressure.

 

It seems L&AirC's solution is the best up to now.

post #7 of 21
Maybe a guide that did the clamping for you? Like this type

539_1_.jpg

Or

svst-pebc-beveler-clamp3__68451.1323977241.350.318.jpg
post #8 of 21
+1 ^^^^^
post #9 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post



svst-pebc-beveler-clamp3__68451.1323977241.350.318.jpg

hmm... might have to get that...

post #10 of 21

You already have the guide and one clamp.  Just need another clamp. Works great and the tools are doing the work instead of you (with regards to holding the stone flat).

 

 

The key is rotating the clamps so it is comfortable for your hand.  These particular clamps hold on with a death grip!  There is no way I can maintain that pressure for that long. All I have to do is slide the guide back and forth.  You also need to make sure that where the clamps apply pressure is a spot that is flat on both sides.  Some guides have a gap towards the center and clamping these clamps over that spot might cause the stone to bend.

 

 

And no I don't sharpen without a brake retainer.  It's a mock picture.:D

post #11 of 21

For diamonds only, this is a bit of overkill. After you are done with file (of course for files this is perfectly fine question), you just "glide" diamond over edge (on base and then on side) to get rid of bur and that's it, and you can easily do it handheld without guide.

post #12 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by primoz View Post
 

For diamonds only, this is a bit of overkill. After you are done with file (of course for files this is perfectly fine question), you just "glide" diamond over edge (on base and then on side) to get rid of bur and that's it, and you can easily do it handheld without guide.

 

 

   You can, but it takes a fair amount of experience to develop the necessary touch to hold the diamond at the correct angle in your hand without it dulling the "point" you have created. I would recommend newcomers stick to the file guides. Plus, many here like to refresh the tune with diamonds only using a grit progression in order to preserve edge material (like on a thin-edged stock ski, or an older used ski that has been filed many times already). If you do a lot of skiing but plan on keeping the same pair for say, 3 years or so, filing after every (or every other) time out may not be an option...

 

    zenny

post #13 of 21

Yes it is overkill but it has never slipped, had the pressure between the stone and guide vary and never has the position changed unless I forcibly changed it.  It is exact each and every time (no matter how many Oatmeal Stouts I've had :beercheer:

 

Ken

post #14 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by zentune View Post
I would recommend newcomers stick to the file guides.

Agree :) I somehow always forget it actually does make difference if you did 10.000s of skis or just 5 through your life :) As far as not using file and just using diamonds goes, I would say it's a bit expensive way, unless you get diamonds for free :) I would use stone (or whatever should be right English word for this) instead of diamond for this. It's much cheaper option, as diamonds don't last all that long, especially when you really would do "sharpening" with them.

post #15 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by nemesis256 View Post
 

hmm... might have to get that...

It doesn't work very well and is a pain to change the files and tools. A clamp is the best bet!

post #16 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by nemesis256 View Post
 

It sounds like you're trying to apply as much pressure as the clamp to hold the stone flat. I need to avoid doing this, due to tendinitis in my hands, I can't apply that much pressure.

 

It seems L&AirC's solution is the best up to now.

You don't need to apply pressure. you just loosely hold it since the clamp is solidly on the file/stone. 

 

I tried the self clamping stuff and have not used it in years!


Edited by Atomicman - 12/31/13 at 8:33am
post #17 of 21

Quote:Sounds to me like you are pressing way too hard with your diamond stone. You are supposed to be polishing and letting the diamonds do the work not bludgeoning the side edge!

you don't need a bunch of pressure. 

 

Originally Posted by L&AirC View Post
 

You already have the guide and one clamp.  Just need another clamp. Works great and the tools are doing the work instead of you (with regards to holding the stone flat).

 

 

The key is rotating the clamps so it is comfortable for your hand.  These particular clamps hold on with a death grip!  There is no way I can maintain that pressure for that long. All I have to do is slide the guide back and forth.  You also need to make sure that where the clamps apply pressure is a spot that is flat on both sides.  Some guides have a gap towards the center and clamping these clamps over that spot might cause the stone to bend.

 

 

And no I don't sharpen without a brake retainer.  It's a mock picture.:D

post #18 of 21

AMan,

 

I'm not pressing on the ski.  The pressure I'm talking about is between the stone and the guide - they become one.  I just slide them back and forth and let the tool work.

 

Ken

post #19 of 21

Quote: With the one clamp up at the top of the angled stone/file it takes little to no pressure with your thumb and my stones and files don't move around at all. You already have your thumb and hand on the guide like I do  except it's way up the stone and file because your 2nd clamp is in your way.  Looks to me like you are just making it more difficult and awkward with that 2nd clamp, which I deem unnecessary! 

 But with everything in life. To each his own:D

 

 

Originally Posted by L&AirC View Post
 

AMan,

 

I'm not pressing on the ski.  The pressure I'm talking about is between the stone and the guide - they become one.  I just slide them back and forth and let the tool work.

 

 

post #20 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by nemesis256 View Post
 

It sounds like you're trying to apply as much pressure as the clamp to hold the stone flat. I need to avoid doing this, due to tendinitis in my hands, I can't apply that much pressure.

 

It seems L&AirC's solution is the best up to now.

Totally awkward and unneccesary . I use no pressure. I play a ton (like 4 days a week and sometimes twice on a couple of those days)of singles tennis, so my right hand, arm and elbow take a ton of abuse! so I hear you there! But it is not the case. Having that other clamp in the way changes the angle you can hold the tool to somehting that looks  unrelaxed and unnatural for me. I totally relax my hand. Again you don't need any pressure on the tools nor the stone!


Edited by Atomicman - 12/31/13 at 5:03pm
post #21 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post

 

Quote: With the one clamp up at the top of the angled stone/file it takes little to no pressure with your thumb and my stones and files don't move around at all. You already have your thumb and hand on the guide like I do  except it's way up the stone and file because your 2nd clamp is in your way.  Looks to me like you are just making it more difficult and awkward with that 2nd clamp, which I deem unnecessary! 

 But with everything in life. To each his own:D

 

It really isn't awkward.  The picture is staged and I'm trying to hold my stupid phone steady and operate it with my left hand.  That was awkward.  The second clamp isn't in the way since it is turned to be inline with the guide.  The reason I started doing this is when I put a clamp on one end, I notices the stone was light on the other and could swivel side to side and now and again, especially on junior skis, the stone would move and bump the brake or something when I changed grip when flipping the ski over to the other side.  I understand that your hand and thumb will hold it in place so it won't, but I'd rather have the tools do that.  All I have to do is make sure the guide stays against the base and the set up goes back and forth.  The only effort I exert is clamping and un-clamping; that and taking another sip of beer.

 

The real issue here is you won't admit I'm more anal than you are :duel::D

 

By the way -

 

http://www.epicski.com/t/121831/gs-ski-pole-length/90#post_1663662

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