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rough Atomic bases

post #1 of 19
Thread Starter 
I have noticed that the bases on my Beta Ride 10.20's are turning a grayish white towards the edges. They have a roughish feel in these areas too. If I run my hand from the tail to the tip the base does not feel smooth but kind of raspy(like there are a lot of little hairs). It doesn't seem that this is the way they should be from a season of really good snow conditions. My skis have 15-20 days on them. Eastern powder skiing for the most part (what a year). Is anyone else having a similar problem? Any ideas/suggestions?

Thanks all.
post #2 of 19
Sounds like you need a tune or at least a wax. Do you know if the skis had a stone grind or belt sand the last time they were worked on.
The condition you describe happens to most skis when the wax is depleted on the bases.
the little hairs I think are from belt sanding. If done correctly this should not cause a problem provided they are kept waxed. A stone grind I have found seems not have the little hairs problem but the bases do turn grey/white if you don't keep wax in the bases.
Did you have these skis waxed anytime recently?

15-20 days with no wax jobs is a long time.

The way to keep this from happening is to do regular tunes and waxes. depending on how much you ski and on what kind of snow the interval will change. I wax my skis every 2-3 days of skiing. If I'm skiing on icy harsh conditions I sometimes have to wax every day. Just to give you an idea.<FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by dchan (edited April 17, 2001).]</FONT>
post #3 of 19
You might be able to remove teh hairs yourself. Tognar Toolworks (www.tognar.com) has some abrasive pads and a base shaver to remove hairs. If you opt for a stone grind on the bases, research this website for articles on Atomic bases especially those responses from Betaracer. There were some last year, and recently (last month) as well. The edges need special attention.

I have a question for Betaracer in case he sees this. Much has been said about the need for ceramic edge finishing and the fact that it is not a problem if the bases are slightly concave on Atomic skis. If you get the stonegrind with appropriate edge finishing, is there ay change in performance as the skis get less concave? Just curious.
post #4 of 19
Dont blame the ski's for your lack of waxing them. Dchan was right on the money. Buy a tuning book so you learn how to maintain your ski's. Before stone grinding them i would try a scotch brite pad on them to see if you can remove the oxidation on the ski's and if successful then hot wax them. If not take them to a shop for repair.
post #5 of 19
a Scotch Brite pad should work. The other way to remove the hairs is a sharpened metal scraper. I have a metal Toko scraper, that I run the long edge across a flat file, at a bit of an angle, and get it sharp. This will take off hairly p-tex after sanding, and will flatten high bases. But you need to be careful.
post #6 of 19
The Swix wax manual suggests that you iron in a very hard wax in a strip about one cm wide along the inside edge of the skis for about one-half the length, centered at the center. Scrape and then iron in the usual wax for the day. This will protect the bottoms from abrasive snow.
post #7 of 19
Thread Starter 
Its been six or seven skiing days since the last waxing. That has, in the past, not been a problem with skis for me, especially with the snow conditions I have been skiing this season. The Betas apparently need more frequent TLC than my old skis. Live and learn. <FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by loafer (edited April 17, 2001).]</FONT>
post #8 of 19
As I mentioned before, depends more on the base prep than the manufacturer. I would suspect that the shop that put the most recent tune used a belt sander or sanding pad. Use a scraper or scotch pad as suggested and clean up the bases and then have a hot wax put on. each day when you are done skiing, inspect the bases and put a couple of drops of water on the base. If it beads, you are probably ok for another day. if it sheets off, or doesn't bead, time for wax. Don't think it's an Atomic problem but just conditions that you need to stay on top of.
post #9 of 19
Loafer- Your bases are probably a sintered base. They have become oxidized. I just looked it up in my manual which I received during a Toko waxing clinic I attended. Here's an excerpt from my book:
It is often incorrectly assumed that the modern sinter bases do not need waxing.The contrary is true, however, as these bases get brittle very fast and start to oxidize without wax.
The hard wax suggestion at the edges sounds like a good idea. In the East I understand you tend to get a lot of cold snow and ice.
The lower the temperature of the snow the more friction there is. lower temp=higher friction.
There are many kinds of snow. New, artificial, marbled, old, and wet. Decisive factors for optimum gliding are:
1-skier, 2-ski, 3-running surface, 4-wax, 5-struture, 6-edges, 7-snow/weather conditions.
Get your skis reground and ask the shop to put a fine structure not a course structure if you are skiing in cold snow or icey conditions.
I wrote an article on how to wax and tune your skis. It discusses the basics since there is so much to this art. Using just the basics I discuss in this article I had at least 3 or 4 guys ask me what the hell I did to my skis one day(since we all came off a run at the same speed onto a flat trail back to the lodge and I was passing them up at about 5 mph, not polling or skating... and they were!) and I said, "E-mail me and I'll tell ya." jyarddog@spiritone.com If anyone wants this article, e-mail me. Then send back your suggestions on what to do in certain conditions of weather and snow, or any special tricks you have learned. The more I learn, the more I can share with others, and the more gooderer I be.

Life's a pain... then you nap. Cat philosphy
<FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by jyarddog (edited April 17, 2001).]</FONT>
post #10 of 19
The 'Whitening' of the base along the edges is common if regular waxing is not done. With modern shaped skis, there is a greater amount of pressure as the ski carves it's short arc. If there is not enough wax to lubricate, the base starts to burn. Ideally, a very hard wax should be used along the edges about 1cm wide. Scrape off, and then apply a full coat of wax for the day's conditions. Waxing every day prevents burning, as well as helps keep skis in top shape.

To remedy the present whitening do either of the following.

1. If there is no other damage to the base or edges, P-Tex over the whitened areas, and scrape off, and then wax. We do this after every run with Downhill and Super-G skis, and every 2 runs with GS and Slalom skis.
2. If you need a major service, a run through a stone grinder, and then a ceramic edge refinish, followed by a wax will restore everything back to normal.

***Note, waxing refers to melting wax onto the base and then ironing it on, scraping it off when cool, and then using a brush at the end. Use of shop rollers is useless.

Only you will be able to determine how often your skis need waxing. If you carve on ice, you will start to notice drying out along the edges in a few hours of skiing. As the snow gets softer, it will take longer for the wax to wear off. Learning how to maintain your own skis, and purchasing the required tools will save you money and frustration in the long term.
post #11 of 19
I assume the shop roller you are talking about is the ones that heat the wax in a well and then rolls it onto the ski?
I have one of those and it really speeds up the waxing process. I use it to apply wax and then iron it into the base.

Thanks for the other info. I never realized that it was speed that caused the whitening. I guess I never went that fast before for any sustained amount of time. Very interesting.<FONT size="1">

[This message has been edited by dchan (edited April 17, 2001).]</FONT>
post #12 of 19

That doesn't heat up your bases enough to allow the wax to get into the pours.
post #13 of 19

How do you ptex the entire length of a ski? Do you use one of those ultra-hot irons and somehow melt it in like wax? Won't that much heat damage the skis? Also, do you have to shred the ptex in a food processor to put flakes onto the bases to melt them in, or what?? I've never heard of re-ptexing the whole length of a ski.
post #14 of 19
JohnH, dchan said he irons it in after he rolls on the melted wax. That works and lasts a long time. I see nothing different in "melting the wax on" - the roller just makes melting the wax on quicker. If dchan irons immediately after, what's the dif?
post #15 of 19
You're right oboe. I misread dchan's post. Sorry D.
post #16 of 19
It's ok johnh
I expect you to really start mis reading stuff after the kid comes along. working with only a couple winks a night will not help your mental prowess much.

Yeah I iron. I just got tired of burning my fingertips on the iron when I was trying to use that last small chunk of wax
post #17 of 19
Thread Starter 
all good info and insights. can someone please tell me what a "very hard wax" is and how it is different from what I would normally iron into the base.
post #18 of 19
When I P-tex the burnt base, I do it for the whole length if required. No point in only doing half of it. I use P-tex stick, and do the 'Burn and Drip' method.

Wax hardness can be related to temperature. Hard wax is for cold temps, and (D'uh) as temps go up, the wax gets softer. Different companies have different colors, so look at packaging for the temp index.

The wax rollers I was refering to are the heated brillo pad where wax is rubbed onto the bristles and the ski is run over. Most shops use this and call it a hot wax, but it is basically a polish of the base.
post #19 of 19
Swix, Toko, and Holmenkol make a wax powder for this purpose, but it is a bit expensive (Swix: $17 for 40 grams from Tognar Toolworks, 800-299-9904). You can use a wax for below zero F such as Swix CH4. I have been using up some Swix Polar Extreme (14 F -> -24 F).
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