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Bindings DO protect knee's

post #1 of 26
Thread Starter 

I've seen quite a few threads on here saying regular bindings don't protect knee's. Mostly the knee binding threads and for some reason the ski inury web page says the same thing. What a load of crap. BINDINGS don't protect from certain type of phantom foot slow twisting rearward falling acl injuries, which are rare compared to mcl injuries anyway. MCL's are the most common. They do protect from many other knee injuries. What do you think happens if the front of your ski catches an inside edge and you fall over? If that binding doesn't release your mcl can be sheared off like a hot knife through butter. It also obviously protects you from a severe spiral fracture(a very serious injury and every bit as serious if not more serious than an acl tear. Just ask lazinger.), A sever spiral fracture can also blow the mcl/acl. 

post #2 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo Snowmen View Post
 

I've seen quite a few threads on here saying regular bindings don't protect knee's. Mostly the knee binding threads and for some reason the ski inury web page says the same thing. What a load of crap. BINDINGS don't protect from certain type of phantom foot slow twisting rearward falling acl injuries, which are rare compared to mcl injuries anyway. MCL's are the most common. They do protect from many other knee injuries. What do you think happens if the front of your ski catches an inside edge and you fall over? If that binding doesn't release your mcl can be sheared off like a hot knife through butter. It also obviously protects you from a severe spiral fracture(a very serious injury and every bit as serious if not more serious than an acl tear. Just ask lazinger.), A sever spiral fracture can also blow the mcl/acl. 


I was always under the impression that bindings protect your legs from fractures, not knee injuries.

post #3 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by huhh View Post
 


I was always under the impression that bindings protect your legs from fractures, not knee injuries.

Yeah I know. TOTAL misinformation spread online. Bindings don't protect you in one type of fall.(phantom foot acl injury). That's what the knee binding was supposed to protect again. There's many different types of falls that can hurt a knee. A ski that releases properly CAN and will save your knee as long as the binding setting isn't too high in many different types of falls other than phantom foot.

 

Think about it. Stick your inside edge of the ski into the snow and press inward. That's the mcl stretching. Think rg3. That ligament holds the knee together. The leg only bends one way. You bend the wrong way you blow the mcl. You apply even more force and you have a tib/fib fracture AND an mcl tear. A ski binding will release when you catch an inside edge of the front of your ski, thus saving you from an mcl injury.

post #4 of 26

The last thing this forum needs is yet another knee injury/binding thread. Unless you have something new to contribute why don't you just read the hundreds, if not thousands, of posts on the subject, rather than starting another thread. Between this thread and the ski area lies thread it seems you're here to complain and argue.

post #5 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldgoat View Post
 

The last thing this forum needs is yet another knee injury/binding thread. Unless you have something new to contribute why don't you just read the hundreds, if not thousands, of posts on the subject, rather than starting another thread. Between this thread and the ski area lies thread it seems you're here to complain and argue.

I did just contribute something NEW. I'm saying that people are posting wrong information that regular bindings do NOT prevent knee injuries whatsoever. This is blatantly false.

post #6 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldgoat View Post
 

The last thing this forum needs is yet another knee injury/binding thread. Unless you have something new to contribute why don't you just read the hundreds, if not thousands, of posts on the subject, rather than starting another thread. Between this thread and the ski area lies thread it seems you're here to complain and argue.

 

Why else would someone post here?

 

What you call bitching, I call content!

post #7 of 26

While I'm all for bitching threads, Trying to set the record strait, or tell this group of skiers what to think is like pissing into the wind. Fact of the matter is skiing is hard on the knees. You ski long enough chances are as some point you will have an issue. Are the current form of bindings full proof? No. Are they better than bolting your boot to the ski? Yes. 

post #8 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SVmike View Post
 

While I'm all for bitching threads, Trying to set the record strait, or tell this group of skiers what to think is like pissing into the wind. Fact of the matter is skiing is hard on the knees. You ski long enough chances are as some point you will have an issue. Are the current form of bindings full proof? No. Are they better than bolting your boot to the ski? Yes.

It also depends on HOW you ski obviously. Hucking off cliffs? Big air freestyle skiing? Racing the super G with din set to 26? Those will guarantee serious injury eventually. Or ar you Just messing around on crusiers in a little pow? Fact is releasable bindings reduce many type of falls that can cause knee injury. As well they reduce leg fractures rates by around 1200%. Amazingly effective at that. Of course if you have the binding set too high(26 is basically non-releasble) then you negate the effectiveness of a releasble binding.

post #9 of 26

OP thanks for adding something new to the discussion:cool

post #10 of 26

You should have been around when bindings meant just that....bindings.

I never broke my leg or hurt my knee using Geze toes and Marker Rotamat longthong heels.....with real leather longthongs to bind you right proper.

Then you could have added a lot to the discussion.

Now, not so much.

post #11 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dakine View Post
 

You should have been around when bindings meant just that....bindings.

I never broke my leg or hurt my knee using Geze toes and Marker Rotamat longthong heels.....with real leather longthongs to bind you right proper.

Then you could have added a lot to the discussion.

Now, not so muc

You can drive drunk and "no one got hurt". It's all about probablity. Look at the fracture rates back then vs now. Also, obviously leather boots were a ankle fracture waiting to happen.

post #12 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by dakine View Post
 

You should have been around when bindings meant just that....bindings.

I never broke my leg or hurt my knee using Geze toes and Marker Rotamat longthong heels.....with real leather longthongs to bind you right proper.

Then you could have added a lot to the discussion.

Now, not so much.

Actually, I did hurt my knees on those, though. Once on Gezes, once on Sollies. And once on Marker toes combined with cable heels. :eek The Rotamat was actually pretty knee friendly, though, if you could keep it from flying apart. 

 

Think OP has a point that has been obscured by the endless Knee Binding fecal flinging. OTOH, he could calm down and stop assuming no one else here gets it. Or that with his 39 posts he's the first one to bring it up. Which would involve actually wading through all the binding threads, which would lead to a new kind of injury, EID (Epic-Induced Dementia). 

post #13 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo Snowmen View Post
 

Also, obviously leather boots were a ankle fracture waiting to happen.

Yep, watched my dad brake his ankle right in front of me wearing nice knee friendly leather boots and cable bindings. Heard it snap. It was never quite right after that, either; ankle injuries back in the day usually involved lot of soft tissue damage. But, hey, no one's ever faced the hazards we do. Things were soooo much better back in the rose-tinted day...:cool 

post #14 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post
 

 

Think OP has a point that has been obscured by the endless Knee Binding fecal flinging. OTOH, he could calm down and stop assuming no one else here gets it. Or that with his 39 posts he's the first one to bring it up. Which would involve actually wading through all the binding threads, which would lead to a new kind of injury, EID (Epic-Induced Dementia). 

lol....I only read a few of those threads. I don't have a month or two to dedicate to it.

 

The whole problem with the "knee binding" concept is that you have to have a lateral release with the heel pressed down in order to mitigate a rearwards falling acl phantom foot injury. Well how is the binding supposed to know if you're falling backwards vs just laying down a carve? You're putting pressure while your heel is pressed down underfoot. I would think you would get all kinds of pre-release. A regular binding doesn't release when pressure is underfoot or your heel is down. But to be fair, I've never used it. When they were marketing it, why didn't they do FREE demo days at major resorts rather than coming onto an online forum and debating? I think that would have been a lot more effective way to market a product. People would see if it pre-releases(the biggest fear) without having to invest hundred's of dollars. If it worked well, people would start using it and then you would eventually see injury data/widespread use and then if it really was proven to work every binding manufacturer would pay to be able to use that tech in their own binding.

 

Ok, really not trying to start a knee binding thread up again. I'll stop. lol Just giving my 2 cents.

post #15 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post
 

Yep, watched my dad brake his ankle right in front of me wearing nice knee friendly leather boots and cable bindings. Heard it snap. It was never quite right after that, either; ankle injuries back in the day usually involved lot of soft tissue damage. But, hey, no one's ever faced the hazards we do. Things were soooo much better back in the rose-tinted day...:cool 

Getting an ankle injury from a ski in soft boots is brutal(and used to be common). One of the worst injuries you can sustain. Easily end up with a limp/pain the rest of your life. Thank god for hard boots.I never bitch about them.(ie snowboarders saying how comfy their boots are) I actually find my ski boots comfy :) Their strapped in with both legs. Very different than being in ski's obviously where you can twist all different kinds of ways.

post #16 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo Snowmen View Post
 

 Fact is releasable bindings reduce many type of falls that can cause knee injury. 

This is pretty much the opposite of fact. It was most likely stated wrongly, I can imagine it was meant to read "releasable bindings can reduce soft tissue damage in some types of falls that could otherwise cause knee injury", which would be true. I'd suggest proof reading anything you state as 'fact' to prevent looking silly.

 

Even the best bindings have no ability to prevent a fall.

 

Reducing falls with a mechanical device is going to require someone smarter than the ski industry attracts, maybe Dean Kaman isn't too busy???

 

 

 

 

edit- had to proof read my own sh*t, but looking silly is sort of my thing.


Edited by Whiteroom - 12/24/13 at 7:24am
post #17 of 26

Don't want the entanglement, but I believe KB was invented to prevent the ACL injuries traditional bindings don't prevent.  The most common of which is the rearward twisting phantom foot fall.  The company (and KB's inventor) are clear that it doesn't prevent other injury mechanisms, just the one that causes 70% of the ACL injuries skiers seem to suffer.  No talk of meniscus.

 

And people who own them haven't reported pre-release, not that I know of, during a carve or otherwise.  Anecdotal evidence isn't much use, though.

 

 

Really, devote the necessary months to reading all that earlier material.  KB thread = black hole.

post #18 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by huhh View Post
 


I was always under the impression that bindings protect your legs from fractures, not knee injuries.

That's funny.....I was under the impression that bindings were designed to interface the boot with the ski.

 

Silly me. :D

post #19 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trekchick View Post
 

That's funny.....I was under the impression that bindings were designed to interface the boot with the ski.

 

Silly me. :D

 

Silly you.

post #20 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post
 

 

 

Even the best bindings have no ability to prevent a fall.

 

Stop being anal. You knew exactly what I meant

post #21 of 26
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ricardo Snowmen View Post

 

Stop being anal. 

 

There's the pot calling the kettle black.

post #22 of 26

It will never be possible to build bindings that prevent every injury due to forces from the ski using mechanical means.

Now, if someone wants to make some bindings with force sensors, accelerometers, etc and a potent microprocessor then it just might be possible.

They would cost thousands.

I have been hurt more times by skis that released when I didn't want them to than I have by release failures.

post #23 of 26

Never say never.  All we need is a sensor to monitor the electromagnetic field created by our own nervous system and trigger release based on sensations at the knee.

 

Bindings were designed to prevent legs from breaking.  As a side effect they do prevent some soft tissue knee injuries.  They don't prevent all soft tissue knee injuries, and they don't even prevent all leg-breaking injuries. Almost everybody here knows these facts.

post #24 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
 

Never say never.  All we need is a sensor to monitor the electromagnetic field created by our own nervous system and trigger release based on sensations at the knee.

 

Bindings were designed to prevent legs from breaking.  As a side effect they do prevent some soft tissue knee injuries.  They don't prevent all soft tissue knee injuries, and they don't even prevent all leg-breaking injuries. Almost everybody here knows these facts.


I think you could do it with an anal pressure sensor.

post #25 of 26
Chuckle smile.gif
post #26 of 26

See?  Aspersions cast, GI references, IQs denigrated -- must be a KB thread.  

 

Or a helmet thread.

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