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Calling all Minnesota Epicskiers - Page 13  

post #361 of 676
That is a bummer, hope they still ski well for you Nillon.

Has anyone had work done on their skis at Welch? I have a beat up pair that could use some love. The prices at Pierce are fierce!
post #362 of 676
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaconMeCrazy View Post

That is a bummer, hope they still ski well for you Nillon.

Has anyone had work done on their skis at Welch? I have a beat up pair that could use some love. The prices at Pierce are fierce!

 

For stonegrinding I don't think pierce is any higher than anyone else.

post #363 of 676

I was quoted $60 for a stone grind and edge tune at Pierce.  I see that Welch offers a stone grind and edge tune for $20. Maybe the price difference due to the structuring on the base grind? I believe they both use the same machines. 

post #364 of 676

I seriously doubt that Welch has the same machine as Pierce ;)  I think that Hoigaards just finally got one.

 

$60 sounds around right.  I think I paid $50 + $20 for the upgraded base pattern and another $20 for sidewall planeing since the skis had not been run before.

 

Pierces machine - Montana Challenge

http://www.pierceskateandski.com/service/montana

http://www.montana-international.com/en/products/machines/robots/challenge/

 

Does look like Welch has a decent enough edging machine though

http://www.montana-international.com/en/products/machines/side-edge-grinding/crystal-edge/

 

 

Edit - not sure where you are getting $20 from - looks like $45 for a bare bones stonegrind and edge

http://welchvillage.com/tuning.cfm

post #365 of 676
Hoiggards got a new machine, the Montana Crystal Edge competition, cant remember the name. Looks as elaborate and as big as the one at pierce. Vail, inc dropped it off after they were merged into vail, inc. one of the techs told me when i asked him if it was similar to pierce's, he said it was simalar machine, but on steroids. For whatever that is worth. I still get my skis worked on at pierce and will do so. Only time we use hoiggards for work needed on skis is when we re-lease kids equipment which is part of the package deal.
post #366 of 676
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldjeep View Post
 

I seriously doubt that Welch has the same machine as Pierce ;)  I think that Hoigaards just finally got one.

 

$60 sounds around right.  I think I paid $50 + $20 for the upgraded base pattern and another $20 for sidewall planeing since the skis had not been run before.

 

Pierces machine - Montana Challenge

http://www.pierceskateandski.com/service/montana

http://www.montana-international.com/en/products/machines/robots/challenge/

 

Does look like Welch has a decent enough edging machine though

http://www.montana-international.com/en/products/machines/side-edge-grinding/crystal-edge/

 

 

Edit - not sure where you are getting $20 from - looks like $45 for a bare bones stonegrind and edge

http://welchvillage.com/tuning.cfm

 

Very cool, thanks for doing the research I was too lazy to do.  Same company different machine I guess.

 

On the Welch page it says Crystal Edge, $20 + Stone Grind under "other tuning services". 

post #367 of 676
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaconMeCrazy View Post
 

 

Very cool, thanks for doing the research I was too lazy to do.  Same company different machine I guess.

 

On the Welch page it says Crystal Edge, $20 + Stone Grind under "other tuning services". 


Yup and in the same spot it says Stone Grind $25

 

$20+$25 = $45  ;) And pierce charges something like $50-$60 for that

post #368 of 676
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldjeep View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaconMeCrazy View Post
 

 

Very cool, thanks for doing the research I was too lazy to do.  Same company different machine I guess.

 

On the Welch page it says Crystal Edge, $20 + Stone Grind under "other tuning services". 


Yup and in the same spot it says Stone Grind $25

 

$20+$25 = $45  ;) And pierce charges something like $50-$60 for that


im not versed in the self-tuning of skis (yet) and have always depended on pierce for 90% of our needs. is it worth the extra $5-$15 savings at welch vs pierce, i.e. chance welch could mess things up more so than pierce given pierce's history, expertise, etc? or with these machines is it just a matter of strapping the skies in and pressing a few buttons, machine does the rest type of system w/o to much human ingenuity/touch to it?

post #369 of 676
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwestfabs View Post
 


im not versed in the self-tuning of skis (yet) and have always depended on pierce for 90% of our needs. is it worth the extra $5-$15 savings at welch vs pierce, i.e. chance welch could mess things up more so than pierce given pierce's history, expertise, etc? or with these machines is it just a matter of strapping the skies in and pressing a few buttons, machine does the rest type of system w/o to much human ingenuity/touch to it?


I'm guessing that Welch would do a fine job, but I've got experience having Pierce do my skis and $5-$15 doesn't mean much when they are messing with $1000 skis.

post #370 of 676
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldjeep View Post
 


Yup and in the same spot it says Stone Grind $25

 

$20+$25 = $45  ;) And pierce charges something like $50-$60 for that

 

Ah yes, that makes more sense.  Good thing I have you to explain this stuff to me ;)

 

The reason I ask is because Pierce is not very convenient for me and I'm at Welch all the time.  Unfortunately, Welch's stone grinder is on the fritz, so I may end up heading to Pierce anyway.

post #371 of 676
Great night of skiing last night. Edges of the runs at Welch were excellent. Found spots with 6-8" of light powder... Just amazing skiing for the midwest... No one there either...
post #372 of 676

Hoigaards upgraded to a new Wintersteiger machine, it only competes with Montana's products on the number of skis/boards per hour they can do.  The quality of the tune/grind is not at the level Montana is putting out.

 

Welch has the Crystal Edge machine, they don't have the full Challenge machine that Pierce has.  They can do a side edge at 2 or 3 degrees, but they can't do a base at .5 or half a degree.  Welch's capabilities are not near what Pierce has for stone grinds either.

 

If you just need a new bevel edge set, Welch is fine, or you never tune your own, and want the sides sharpened.  But it you want a new base grind and the base set at a half, avoid Welch.

 

If you want something done decent, the new equipment at Hoigaards will do ok, but it won't be at the same level a racer would like to have from Pierce.

 

Additionally no matter how good this equipment is, if the person operating it sucks, whatever service you have done will suck too.

post #373 of 676

Hi,

 

I'm new here. I get a season pass @ Spirit Mountain every year (for the money, it can't be beat). I am usually @ Spirit on the weekends, as I live in Minneapolis. (I don't really care for anything around here). Except Trollhaugen, where I will go on Friday Nights (10pm - 3am Lift Ticket = $15). I love night skiing, and Trollhaugen is great for that, plus...very little lift lines after 11pm (when everybody else hits the Skollhaugen Bar). 

I have been to Afton, Welch, Buck, Wild. All are okay, but the view from Spirit Mountain is priceless. I get my Mountain Skiing Fix in @ Big Sky, MT. I still need to find time to get to Giants Ridge and Lutsen. Someday! 

I am always down to meet up with people on the hill, as I rarely find friends that are brave enough to hit the slopes. I hope to meet you on the hill!

Peace

 

-Headstyle

post #374 of 676
Welcome Headstyle...

I've done the 10:00 pm skiing at Troll before, and it can be quite fun but boy you feel out of place without a snowboard... I'd bet when I went a few years ago 95% of the people there were on snowboards. many of them were flat out jerks as well to be honest. I also find trollhaugen pretty boring at this point, especially with how long the drive is from St Paul. Troll is great area for family skiing though. Their Thursday family night special is the best deal in the area IMO.

I had a buddy who did Spirit on the weekends from Alexandria with a season pass but only for one season as the drive got old for him quickly. Once I went to Lutsen I didn't think Spirit was worth the 2 hour drive each way, as Lutsen is so much better (SO much better) and only 90 minutes more driving each way. If you think the views at Spirit are amazing wait until you see Lutsen...

How much was the spirit season pass this year? I love the place... skied there since I was in 9th grade. i with they had more terrain though. They don't have a huge number of runs. it also gets CRAZY busy on the weekends. Almost too busy to enjoy, similar to Afton...

I heard last Saturday was Welch's busiest day ever, FYI. It was packed, but still not so busy you were waiting in a 20 minute long lift line lie you'll see at Spirit or Afton.
post #375 of 676

I hear you completely regarding Troll @ Night, Focker. I ignore them...and they ignore me. I go because it's easy..and cheap. It is a way to get my fix...especially if I know I can't make it to Spirit that weekend.

Spirit for me, is an easy, relaxing, drive. I have very close friends up there with a door is always open policy, where I can spend the night. I get to Spirit for first chair on Saturdays whenever possible, as it's not bad at all (but, I'm also frequently on Gandy Dancer\Chair) It's super quick, most families stick to the four-pipe area chair (which is horrible on the weekends after 11am)...so, I stick to both triple chairs, and have no problems. 

I've never been to Lutsen, because I generally ski alone...but I JUMP at the chance to ski there. I need to...it must be done. 

The season pass this year, had a slight increase (I always buy the early bird pass, as it's cheaper if you buy before the end of October, granted...it's a roll of the dice, but...for roughly $200...you can't go wrong). Last year, the price for early bird was $139!!! (Not a misprint) As they are very aware, in order to compete with Mpls slopes, they gotta get us to drive up there. I am happy to do so...as I don't drive for work Monday - Friday (I take the bus). 

 

If you can handle extreme cold, like it was on Saturday (-3 degrees at 9am, without much wind), you have the whole run to yourself, it seems like. It was a perfect day, snow was great this past weekend, and nobody was really there, compared to normal weather days @ Spirit on Saturday. I am always down to ski...and would love to find some more folks to roll with...

Big Sky can't get here fast enough, as I just picked up brand new Soul 7s (Me likey!!!)

 

Take Care Der Ya know!

 

-Headstyle

post #376 of 676
Quote:
Originally Posted by focker View Post


I heard last Saturday was Welch's busiest day ever, FYI. It was packed, but still not so busy you were waiting in a 20 minute long lift line lie you'll see at Spirit or Afton.

 

That was the busiest ever? Not bad. If you ignored the hordes of racers it seemed like most any other Saturday. Unfortunately Lookout was closed for most of the time I was there due to them.

post #377 of 676
Not Saturday this last weekend but the one before it. The lift lines weren't that bad at all. I heard the back bowl was pretty crowded. After lunch there was a LONG line at the triple that leads back there, like 100+ people long. I've never seen a line that long at Welch, especially for that triple... The only lift I really ever see a big line for it the quad on the west side that leads to the green runs. That lift is constantly shutting down as kids fall getting on/off.
post #378 of 676
Skied Welch today and it was the least crowded I've seen it in a while. The weather was great and lines were short. My wife and I were discussing the snow conditions. Lookout's snow felt too loose. Found it hard to really carve my turns.
post #379 of 676
Quote:
Originally Posted by voghan View Post

Skied Welch today and it was the least crowded I've seen it in a while. The weather was great and lines were short. My wife and I were discussing the snow conditions. Lookout's snow felt too loose. Found it hard to really carve my turns.

 

 

Corn?

post #380 of 676

No Corn yesterday....

 

I don't know how it was too loose for carved turns, especially on lookout. I saw people cranking huge super fast big cranking carved turns all day on Look Out yesterday, I might have been one of them.  

 

In my opinion I thought the snow was amazing, especially given the warm temps.  A little slush and the snow was too soft on the back side, but out front it was about as good as Welch gets.

post #381 of 676
Quote:
Originally Posted by msprace View Post

No Corn yesterday....

I don't know how it was too loose for carved turns, especially on lookout. I saw people cranking huge super fast big cranking carved turns all day on Look Out yesterday, I might have been one of them.  

In my opinion I thought the snow was amazing, especially given the warm temps.  A little slush and the snow was too soft on the back side, but out front it was about as good as Welch gets.
I could not trust the snow would hold when I really turned over my skis. It was easy to skid your turns or smear them.
post #382 of 676

Don't forget that the 59.95 price for general consumers and the 49.95 price for pro's and racers at Pierce also includes wax future passes on the base as to properly layer and impregnate the bases' with wax. I am sure that the welch price does not include that.

post #383 of 676
Quote:
Originally Posted by skixtremedude View Post
 

Don't forget that the 59.95 price for general consumers and the 49.95 price for pro's and racers at Pierce also includes wax future passes on the base as to properly layer and impregnate the bases' with wax. I am sure that the welch price does not include that.

 

Well, it is sort of $49.95 - before you add on the cost of the upgraded structure.  I wasn't aware that they made any passes with the wax future unless you requested it.  My skis didn't seem to have any wax at all on them when I picked them up.

post #384 of 676


If the base's weren't oxidized and or rough and dry and the structure was clearly visible and there was some shine to it they were waxed. The waxing is part of the crystal glide finish tune. Always ask a tech if you are unsure and or unsatisfied with the work. I am sure they will gladly discuss and or improve the situation for you.

post #385 of 676
Quote:
Originally Posted by skixtremedude View Post
 


If the base's weren't oxidized and or rough and dry and the structure was clearly visible and there was some shine to it they were waxed. The waxing is part of the crystal glide finish tune. Always ask a tech if you are unsure and or unsatisfied with the work. I am sure they will gladly discuss and or improve the situation for you.

 

I wasn't dis satisfied, didn't expect them to do any waxing - maybe they did.  I did about a dozen cycles at home after I got them.

post #386 of 676

Last couple times out I've seen people skiing wide skis at the local hill.  I'm curious what is the ski width people here are using on Minnesota hills.  My skis are 75 under foot.  I'm wondering if I should go 88+ on my next set.

post #387 of 676
Quote:
Originally Posted by voghan View Post
 

Last couple times out I've seen people skiing wide skis at the local hill.  I'm curious what is the ski width people here are using on Minnesota hills.  My skis are 75 under foot.  I'm wondering if I should go 88+ on my next set.

 

I use either a 66 or 81 underfoot here at home.  Wide skis IMO are for western conditions and only come out for travel, which is probably why my technique takes a big step backward whenever I get on wider skis  :mad


Edited by gregmerz - 2/3/15 at 6:41am
post #388 of 676

I ski either 80 twin tips (when skiing with my kids) or 86 underfoot.   I love the 86's to be honest, and haven't felt that the extra width has been a hindrance at all.   I've skied them in 2" and 4" of fresh this year and they were very fun in the soft snow.    Good edge hold on hard snow as well.

post #389 of 676

I have skis in 72, 81, 102 waist widths.  The 102's are mostly for use out west.

 

For my money (solid intermediate, and I don't sell skis for a living), focker's right: width doesn't matter as much for skiing around here as having a fairly tight turn radius and good edge hold.  The guys who do sell skis (e.g., SierraJim, dawgcatching, philpug) have posted lots of reviews and overviews stating that many wider skis these days are torsionally stiff enough to do just fine on hard snow.   I just checked, and the 2015 Atomic Blackeyes (81 mm waist) are characterized on skis.com as "narrow."   Not compared to the 68mm-waist carvers I started on...

post #390 of 676
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowObstacle View Post
 

I have skis in 72, 81, 102 waist widths.  The 102's are mostly for use out west.

 

For my money (solid intermediate, and I don't sell skis for a living), focker's right: width doesn't matter as much for skiing around here as having a fairly tight turn radius and good edge hold.  The guys who do sell skis (e.g., SierraJim, dawgcatching, philpug) have posted lots of reviews and overviews stating that many wider skis these days are torsionally stiff enough to do just fine on hard snow.   I just checked, and the 2015 Atomic Blackeyes (81 mm waist) are characterized on skis.com as "narrow."   Not compared to the 68mm-waist carvers I started on...

 


Skier enjoyment surveys don't agree with your statement.  Skiers in the Midwest (where the frontside / on piste is about all you get, excluding those who ski in the terrain parks) are significantly happier with their skis, and skiing experience when they are on front side carving skis.  There are exceptions to this, but for the majority being on a narrow waisted medium to short radius carving ski provides the most enjoyment for the highest number of skiers in the Upper-Midwest.

 

83 or less was found to be the ideal waist for the Upper-Midwest, this information was presented at SIA in 2012, and they touched on it again last week.

 

Wide waist and tight turn radius are opposites, edge hold is also tougher the wider the ski. Torsional flex is greater while carving on a ski that is wider with the same stiffness, thus the ski won't hold.  Think of a 1x1 pine board, at 1 foot the wood flexes very little.  Now imagine a board 10 feet long at 1x1 inches still, hold it at one end and look at the flex.  (this is exaggerated, but the same effect happens)

 

It's not that someone on a 88 or a 102 waisted ski can't have fun in our limited vertical on-piste environment, but could they ski better, and enjoy it more on a ski more appropriate for the conditions?  The answer is yes they could not only ski better, but easier, and enjoy it more.  The skier retention numbers speak volumes about this, as people buying wide waisted skis in MN, WI, MI, and IL mostly skied less after purchasing wide skis, while those who purchased narrow skis ended up skiing more in the year following the purchase.

 

So @voghan it depends on where you are going to ski the most, and the conditions.  If you ski around home very little, head out west a lot, ski the back country and chase the POW, get the wider ski.  If you mainly ski around here, get a ski designed for the conditions you mainly ski, and rent when you need the wider ski when you will be skiing those conditions, and just bring your boots with you.  That's my opinion anyway for what it's worth.

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