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EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Tuning, Maintenance and Repairs › Setting the DIN: Boot IN or OUT?
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Setting the DIN: Boot IN or OUT?

post #1 of 23
Thread Starter 

The forward pressure is set. Now, what is a proper way to adjust the DIN: with a boot in the binding, or no boot, or either? Any difference for different brands? I noticed technicians in many demo centers would set the the DIN when the boot is out. Is it just convenience? Thank you.

post #2 of 23

Maybe you should have this handled by a pro?

post #3 of 23

Agree.

post #4 of 23

OUT !  Do you know how to set the AFD clearance, the right DIN and do you know how to realease check your own outfit ?

post #5 of 23
Also if your not sure, pay the tech at the shop to set them up. Think of it as, it's better then the co-pay at the ER.
post #6 of 23
DIN = Boot in! Forward Pressure = ALWAYS Boot out, you can easily strip the cam screw if the boot is in.
post #7 of 23
Thread Starter 
Thanks everyone.
Sending the skis to the shop is always a good idea for most of the skiers, but I just want to confirm that what I do is correct.
- AFT is required to adjust on newer models of the DH bindings? I saw that on some older models, but was sure the newer models follow the DIN standards. Am I wrong?
- Forward pressure - boot OUT. Yes, don't want to strip the screw. (And some bindings have a lever that to be lifted so the locking teeth are disengaged from the bottom plate. It's not posssible to set the forward pressure with the boot in.)
- DIN boot IN: thanks for advice.
- There are tables with the weight, height and skiing abilities of the skier. Ski tech use those tables to set up correct DIN. I cannot do that myself? Do I miss anything important?
Some people do love to repair their cars...
Thanks again
post #8 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Makar View Post

Thanks everyone.
Sending the skis to the shop is always a good idea for most of the skiers, but I just want to confirm that what I do is correct.
- AFT is required to adjust on newer models of the DH bindings? I saw that on some older models, but was sure the newer models follow the DIN standards. Am I wrong?
- Forward pressure - boot OUT. Yes, don't want to strip the screw. (And some bindings have a lever that to be lifted so the locking teeth are disengaged from the bottom plate. It's not posssible to set the forward pressure with the boot in.)
- DIN boot IN: thanks for advice.
- There are tables with the weight, height and skiing abilities of the skier. Ski tech use those tables to set up correct DIN. I cannot do that myself? Do I miss anything important?
Some people do love to repair their cars...
Thanks again


It is not rocket science.  There are charts everywhere and handy calculators all over the Internet like this one: www.dinsetting,com .   You have to use common sense when you (or your kids) are in between the stuff on the chart.   BTW, it is a good idea to make sure all the mounting screws are tightened when you adjust the DIN settings. They shouldn't loosen, but you never know.   On some bindings (e.g., Look Pivots) the visible forward tension mark isn't that accurate, so it can't hurt to have a shop test it with a machine.  Word of caution from my experience:  If the mount or binding settings came from a big box store, don't trust it.  I'd rather drive an hour or two to a dedicated ski shop than ever make a mistake again.


Edited by quant2325 - 12/18/13 at 7:25am
post #9 of 23
Thread Starter 
Thanks for your advice.

A friend of mine has a rather simple way to zero-in to correct DIN setting for your mass and skiing style.
- Start with a lower setting
- Every time the binding releases prematurely, turn the DIN one click up.
- Do it again until seems ok
- Every week (month - depends on how often you ski) turn the DIN one-two clicks down
- Click up again if required ...and so on

Kind of make sense to me
post #10 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post

DIN = Boot in! Forward Pressure = ALWAYS Boot out, you can easily strip the cam screw if the boot is in.

lots of techs adjust FP boot in...
 

post #11 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Makar View Post

Thanks for your advice.

A friend of mine has a rather simple way to zero-in to correct DIN setting for your mass and skiing style.
- Start with a lower setting
- Every time the binding releases prematurely, turn the DIN one click up.
- Do it again until seems ok
- Every week (month - depends on how often you ski) turn the DIN one-two clicks down
- Click up again if required ...and so on

Kind of make sense to me

 pointless (and potentially dangerous!) exercise Thumbs Down

post #12 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotsSkier View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Makar View Post

Thanks for your advice.

A friend of mine has a rather simple way to zero-in to correct DIN setting for your mass and skiing style.
- Start with a lower setting
- Every time the binding releases prematurely, turn the DIN one click up.
- Do it again until seems ok
- Every week (month - depends on how often you ski) turn the DIN one-two clicks down
- Click up again if required ...and so on

Kind of make sense to me

 pointless (and potentially dangerous!) exercise Thumbs Down

What he said, either have a shop set it if you don't know what you are doing, or set it and keep it there. if you pre-release turn it up, but make sure you are not pre-releasing because something else is wrong forward pressure/snow in the binding/etc.

post #13 of 23
Blowing out of your skis unexpectedly can be very bad indeed.....
post #14 of 23

 Pete from No Idaho,  how does one check AFD clearance?  As well as release check your outfit?

post #15 of 23

OK, heres my self binding check.  First, follow the charts-what the shops use for your DIN.  But for me I know my DIN, which is 8.  So I will tell whoever is mounting my bindings to set them at 8 (and then I sign a waiver releasing them from setting them wrong/at my age they want to set them lower).

 

Place the boot into the binding, pull backwards on Boot., use a  thin credit card or special made plastic card to check the AFD clearance.  Card should slide through/under the boot with slight resistance.  A lot of things can effective this process.  I lube my AFD with pure silicone pretty regularly, if you have a poor condition boot sole this can also hinder the correct working of the AFD.  Get new boots or sand them smooth, I have cat tracks so I don't trash my boot soles when walking through the park lot etc.

 

Here is how I personally check my release.

 

1.  Set my DIN at 8.  Using my strongest leg (R) get into the binding/ski.  Be on carpet.  Wife stands on the tail.  WITH KNEE BENT forcefully go forward.  Heel should release, not to easily and not to hard.  

 

2.  Get back into binding, while wife stands on front of ski, WITH KNEE BENT, twist foot/toe to inside and boot should release, some times wife will have to tap lightly on boot.

 

DO THIS WITH KNEE BENT OR YOU WILL HURT YOURSELF.

 

Binding releases too easily.  Don't move  1 whole number, move half a number until release is right.  1/2 number at a time is fine, don't move 1 whole number that is a big movement, too much either way.

 

Example:  Have always used right on 8,  Last new skis/bindings I bought and release checked I moved the bindings release 1/4 turn down from 8 and yes I can feel the difference in the release.

 

Doing this by skiing and seeing how you like it is a bad idea. Premature releases at speed, next to a cliff, next to or in the trees can mean serious injury - bad idea.  And vice-versa a slow fall or a big crash and you don't release can mean ACL etc.

 

Would it be better if I did this at a shop with all the right equipment - sure but know my DIN  and how ski should release and feel when it does.  Experience counts, if you have no idea try this and if you still are hesitant or in the dark, go to a shop.

 

One thing about living 1.5 hours (one way) from any  shop is I do some things myself.

post #16 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by GorgeSkier View Post
 

Maybe you should have this handled by a pro?

If you know the process then why not tell how to do it? Or are you just giving this advice because you don't know how to adjust bindings?

 

What is the big deal? It's a forum....you're not touching the bindings. Tell how to do it then tell the guy to take it to a shop to have it double checked.

 

How many shops acutally have a device to check the torque? Few.

 

I'd rather do it myself and know it's done correct, it's not rocket science.

post #17 of 23

For my Marker bindings, yes, I know how to set them....sometimes knowing a ski shop owner who is retiring is a good thing.

 

The Marker Technical Manual 2012-2013 states for my model of bindings "Note: To Set and Adjust the Release Value on all Marker Bindings the boot should be locked into the binding with the correct forward pressure." i.e DIN setting = boot in locked position. Forward pressure, for my model, is stated as "Place the boot into the binding and adjust the Forward Pressure Adjustment Screw until the boot is in the correct position to close the heel of the binding. Lock the boot into the binding." i.e. Set the pressure with boot in the unlocked position.

 

Since one could seriously be harmed by faulty or improperly set bindings, I will not go into detail just as I would not go into detail about rebuilding car front and rear brakes systems, which I also routinely do, on an internet forum.

post #18 of 23
It probably wouldn't make a difference if it were done just a few times. Repeated over time though, adjusting forward pressure with the boot out will minimize wear and tear.

The same goes for DIN setting. Doing it with the boot out will minimize wear and tear...at least based on my observation of how the Look toe binding is constructed.

http://www.epicski.com/t/119829/help-dynastar-omeglass-px-bindings-installation/30#post_1602000
Edited by nochaser - 12/25/13 at 11:03pm
post #19 of 23
Thread Starter 

Generally, I  agree with minimize wear and tear approach. However, in a recently found http://atomiccertification.net/manuals/2013-Atomic_Tech_Manual.pdf

the Forward Pressure setting ( p.9): "With the boot in the binding (closed position), adjust the forward

pressure to align the top of the head screw with the back of the heel track."

post #20 of 23
Yes. I, by no means, try to sound like an expert, but, on all of the bindings by Tyrolia, Look and Marker I own, forward pressure is relative to the BSL so it has to be measured with the boot in. The point is, turning the FP screw or else could be done boot-out in attempts to minimize wear. Having said that, I don't mess with FP once it's set, so I just set FP boot-in as it's easier and quicker. The same goes for DIN.

Most paramount thing for OP to know is that DIN reading especially on old bindings can be misleading and that torque machine testing is the most accurate way to read/set the right DIN on the binding, which is my recommendation. In the mean time, keep reading and learning things about bindings. Take apart one or two scrap ones to learn and appreciate the mechanics of how they work. Then maybe try DIY on equipment he's very familiar with at his own risk.
post #21 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Makar View Post

Thanks for your advice.

A friend of mine has a rather simple way to zero-in to correct DIN setting for your mass and skiing style.
- Start with a lower setting
- Every time the binding releases prematurely, turn the DIN one click up.
- Do it again until seems ok
- Every week (month - depends on how often you ski) turn the DIN one-two clicks down
- Click up again if required ...and so on

Kind of make sense to me

Exceptionally bad idea. Pre- releasing out of your binding at 30-40 mph isn't a safe exercise. If your idea above kind of makes sense to you, this is exactly why you should have the shop adjust and test your bindings. Tough love sent with respect. Stay safe! smile.gif
post #22 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post


Exceptionally bad idea. Pre- releasing out of your binding at 30-40 mph isn't a safe exercise. If your idea above kind of makes sense to you, this is exactly why you should have the shop adjust and test your bindings. Tough love sent with respect. Stay safe! smile.gif

Additionally, pre-release more often than not has NOTHING to do with the release setting. 

 

Many reasons skis come off, least of which is DIN setting!

 

I've posted this multiple times. Always a good read!

 

http://www.vermontskisafety.com/vsrfaq5.php

post #23 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by salmonsoup View Post
 

 Pete from No Idaho,  how does one check AFD clearance?  As well as release check your outfit?

AFD clearance (toe height) is adjustable on some bindings, not on others. On models where it adjustable--Solly STH driver toe for example--the clearance should be 0.5mm--the thickness of your average business card.  With the boot in the binding you should be able to pull the card out from between the boot and AFD with resistance. They make cards specifically for this purpose--doesn't look like they are available to the public. You should be able to obtain plenty of business cards from your orthopedist. Release checking is done with specialized tools in a ski shop. Some people have home methods to do an approximate test--I haven't used myself.  The purpose of a release check is to see that the binding opens with the amount of force specified for the particular DIN setting. Bindings can deteriorate over time due to corrosion from road salt and sand, weakening of the springs, etc. I believe demo shops generally check every binding yearly--doesn't need to be done with each DIN change.  

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