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Rossignol Super 7 Series Hot Box Testing.

post #1 of 23
Thread Starter 

I finally got some of these newfangled skis to play with.  Check it out for the results.  Will it explode?

 

post #2 of 23

 You think outside the box. :D

I'd have never thought to hot box a powder ski.

post #3 of 23
Ya might want to check if there's any grease left in those binders after all that cookin. Jus sayin.
post #4 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trekchick View Post
 

 You think outside the box. :D

I'd have never thought to hot box a powder ski.

I am with you, why on earth would you hotbox a POW ski or any 116M waisted ski. 

 

That  1/100th speed increase skiing down NW Express will really help you toast your buddies!

post #5 of 23

i thought you hotbox naked skis, no? (no bindings, possibly no plates) :confused

post #6 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post

Ya might want to check if there's any grease left in those binders after all that cookin. Jus sayin.


I have never had any grease drop.  The other set has the FKS's and there was a lot of excess grease on those.  I bit of wiping the extra and in they went.  Seems it takes a lot more heat to drop grease.  They are all cooking now.  I will pray for no explosions!

post #7 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jzamp View Post
 

i thought you hotbox naked skis, no? (no bindings, possibly no plates) :confused


No.  I box everything.  I have boxed many plate skis.  I have seen some "goop" smoosh out a tiny bit, but no harm.  As with any ski maintenance one must check binding screw torque while being sure by hand to never over tighten a screw!  
We are only heating to 150 to 158 degrees F.   It's not THAT hot.  That's why it is a safer way to do it than a way too hot iron in the "wrong" hands. 

To base prep. a ski with a hot box takes much less work than by iron. 

Base preparation is everything to a sintered base, if you want it for performance and longevity.

post #8 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trekchick View Post
 

 You think outside the box. :D

I'd have never thought to hot box a powder ski.

I am with you, why on earth would you hotbox a POW ski or any 116M waisted ski. 

 

That  1/100th speed increase skiing down NW Express will really help you toast your buddies!


Because you need good hard wax for most powder.  To get that to "stick" the base must be prepared.  It is through the three cycle hot boxing progression that allows the hardest waxes to adhere.  If one does not know good waxing science, they will see an unwaxed base as being better in powder.  Why?  Because they don't know yet how it is done.  Biggest mistake I see is folks who leave wax on the ski base from lack of scraping and proper brushing.  With cold dry snows brushing is just as important as with wet snow.  Bla bla bla

BTW the runouts are long and flat for quite a bit of the Northwest Territories at Mt. Bachelor.  Wax on ski base=no glide.   Bla bla bla

 

Edit:  Just because you say they are POWDER skis does not preclude folks from rippin' the groomers on them!   They will slay the tilled snow on these!

post #9 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post
 

I am with you, why on earth would you hotbox a POW ski or any 116M waisted ski. 

 

That  1/100th speed increase skiing down NW Express will really help you toast your buddies!


Because if i'm gliding better than the guy beside me, i may get the goods first. It's pretty shortsighted to think people on pow ski's wouldn't like to glide well.

post #10 of 23
The other day I had to contact the Volkl race dept re: hot boxing a pair of new consumer race skis with the UVO thingy. I wasn't sure if it was safe to do, but they said they had done hb on these skis successfully, without any issues. They also said that removing the binding is mandatory (I always remove bindings anyways for hb) to avoid the binding grease from liquifying. I know all the other manus rec removing binders prior to hb.

I see nothing wrong with hb non race skis. It's just another method of waxing, and one of the other benefits is more durability from the glide layer.
post #11 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecimmortal View Post
 


Because if i'm gliding better than the guy beside me, i may get the goods first. It's pretty shortsighted to think people on pow ski's wouldn't like to glide well.

Hotboxing is certainly not mandatory nor even needed  to glide well nor ski fast. :rolleyes

post #12 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post
 

Hotboxing is certainly not mandatory nor even needed  to glide well nor ski fast. :rolleyes


It certainly is not required. But if you have the means, why wouldn't you?

post #13 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post

The other day I had to contact the Volkl race dept re: hot boxing a pair of new consumer race skis with the UVO thingy. I wasn't sure if it was safe to do, but they said they had done hb on these skis successfully, without any issues. They also said that removing the binding is mandatory (I always remove bindings anyways for hb) to avoid the binding grease from liquifying. I know all the other manus rec removing binders prior to hb.

I see nothing wrong with hb non race skis. It's just another method of waxing, and one of the other benefits is more durability from the glide layer.

 

Thanks for that Chenzo!.  I hadn't even thought about the UVO thingy but I have anew pair of 188/30s I need to prep and HB this week.

 

I have not removed bindings in the past though and not seen any issues with the grease

post #14 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotsSkier View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post

The other day I had to contact the Volkl race dept re: hot boxing a pair of new consumer race skis with the UVO thingy. I wasn't sure if it was safe to do, but they said they had done hb on these skis successfully, without any issues. They also said that removing the binding is mandatory (I always remove bindings anyways for hb) to avoid the binding grease from liquifying. I know all the other manus rec removing binders prior to hb.

I see nothing wrong with hb non race skis. It's just another method of waxing, and one of the other benefits is more durability from the glide layer.

 

Thanks for that Chenzo!.  I hadn't even thought about the UVO thingy but I have anew pair of 188/30s I need to prep and HB this week.

 

I have not removed bindings in the past though and not seen any issues with the grease


Okay, think about it.  My max hot box temp. would be only 158 F.  How hot might a pair of ski get in a really hot car on a hot day?  How hot will they get in an attic in summer? 

I have never removed a ski binding to hot box a ski.  You are looking for more trouble if you do. 

Like I said, I always check screws for tightness after any treatment.  I have never had an issue one; ever.  I have never seen any grease drop either.  Really 150 F is not that hot.  Plus when you heat the entire ski and binding it is all expanding and contracting together.  With a super hot iron I would not say that.

Anyway, I cooked all the rest of the 7's and will go to see if any of them exploded here real soon.  The ones with the FSK bindings has the lowest melt point grease I've ever seen so if they did not drop grease, I doubt it will ever be an issue.  As a matter of fact some heat while the skis are upside down may actually help the grease to move a bit in the binding and help more than anything.

post #15 of 23
Bottom line is the race dept at k2 recommends to remove bindings prior to hot box processing.

That trumps any opinion including cat loving home tuners. Haha
post #16 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post

Bottom line is the race dept at k2 recommends to remove bindings prior to hot box processing.

That trumps any opinion including cat loving home tuners. Haha

The K2 race department is probably talking about bindings mounted on plates of RACE ski's. Not bindings mounted flat. I'm sure K2 would not recommend the removal of bindings screwed in to the wood.

post #17 of 23
A binding is a binding. On a properly installed flat ski binding, a skilled tech can install/uninstall a binding several times. How many times depends on the construction of the ski.
post #18 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post

Bottom line is the race dept at k2 recommends to remove bindings prior to hot box processing.

That trumps any opinion including cat loving home tuners. Haha


I've boxed a ton of K2's multiple times.  No issues. 

post #19 of 23
Thread Starter 

Okay folks, the Rossignol 7's I got to box up have been through the second cycle with temps up to 150 F.  Still no problem.  Not one drip of grease from even the white lithium grease.  (I think that's the type).  

 

For laying down the "blue" wax for the final cycle, I put my iron up to about 200 F.   This last cycle saw temps as high as 155 F.  I just need to get them out today and do a final inspection.

I'll come back again after I do that.

post #20 of 23
Thread Starter 

What is Hotboxing, and what does it do?

The idea of the box lies in the fact that wax absorption is more a function of time than of heat. By far the majority of the skis I see have been heat-damaged by ironing too hot, for too short a time. The truth is, the entire ski must be held at a given temperature for several minutes for wax absorption to be anything more than superficial.

Testing has borne out these results, and the subjective impression is that skis prepared with the Hotbox are now faster than before, and retain glide to an impressive degree.

 

Identical skis. One pair boxed up good. One pair iron wax only. Properly ironed that is. When returned for service it was easy to see which ones were which. One pair was dry looking, the other still looked shiny and fresh. (after brushing out both pairs)
The other main thing is NEVER leave your skis without a layer of wax for the off season. With the layer on, put you ski in your attic where it gets really hot. After several months it will soak it up. Works good with soft wax or even better with Dominator Base Renew waxes.

post #21 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques View Post
 


I've boxed a ton of K2's multiple times.  No issues. 

Marker is under the k2 umbrella(thats why I had to contact k2) and their bindings are used by other brands like blizzard, volkl, and nordica.

 

You say no issues, so did you do a test with a calibrator?

 

Unfortunately when people are injured skiing, some will pursue a civil suit.  As many parties will be named in the suit as possible - ie: the ski hill operator, the manufacturer of the ski equipment, the shop where the skis were serviced.

 

Marker (k2) position is to remove bindings prior to hotbox.  If it was discovered that the bindings weren't removed, and subsequently failed a calibration test, this can have an impact on the suit.

 

This is irrelevant for the home tuner, that performs maintenance on personal skis.  But, you have to be careful when opening yourself up to liability when you are providing a service.  A waiver can be a powerful document, and can save a commercial business's ass.  Insurance is a good idea as well.

post #22 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques View Post
 


I've boxed a ton of K2's multiple times.  No issues. 

Marker is under the k2 umbrella(thats why I had to contact k2) and their bindings are used by other brands like blizzard, volkl, and nordica.

 

You say no issues, so did you do a test with a calibrator?

 

Unfortunately when people are injured skiing, some will pursue a civil suit.  As many parties will be named in the suit as possible - ie: the ski hill operator, the manufacturer of the ski equipment, the shop where the skis were serviced.

 

Marker (k2) position is to remove bindings prior to hotbox.  If it was discovered that the bindings weren't removed, and subsequently failed a calibration test, this can have an impact on the suit.

 

This is irrelevant for the home tuner, that performs maintenance on personal skis.  But, you have to be careful when opening yourself up to liability when you are providing a service.  A waiver can be a powerful document, and can save a commercial business's ass.  Insurance is a good idea as well.


Yea, everyone I tune for signs a release and hold harmless.  If they set their bindings too tight that's their fault.  I always recommend low DIN settings.  Myself?  I never go over 6.  Most of my skis I run at a 5. 

 

I would say if a binding spring can't handle 160 F, it must be a piece of garbage.  

post #23 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques View Post
 

Okay folks, the Rossignol 7's I got to box up have been through the second cycle with temps up to 150 F.  Still no problem.  Not one drip of grease from even the white lithium grease.  (I think that's the type).  

 

For laying down the "blue" wax for the final cycle, I put my iron up to about 200 F.   This last cycle saw temps as high as 155 F.  I just need to get them out today and do a final inspection.

I'll come back again after I do that.


  After the third cycle at temps. up to 155 F the 7's look fine.  The bases took wax very well.  So I would say to folks, don't be afraid to hot box your Rossi 7's!

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