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What resorts get tracked out lesser than others? - Page 3

post #61 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

Personally, I'm a huge fan of sloppy seconds.

 

You know, with certain comments, you get to feel that you may suddenly know somebody a bit better than you wish.

post #62 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Kopperud View Post
 

Vail is the holy land for a reason.  Massive lift and massive terrain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayT View Post
 

 

:rotflmao:

 

And massive crowds.  Please tell me you were joking?

 

The Expert Skier is proud to invite everyone to his home area of Vail.

 

The Real Skier tells everyone to go ski Vail.

post #63 of 86

 

Nice training day a few years back!! The straight line was a lift attendant heading to his station before we showed up.

post #64 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Kopperud View Post
 

Vail is the holy land for a reason.  Massive lift and massive terrain.

You might want to be careful about that assertion on a continent that includes Whistler and Jackson Hole.

post #65 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by lonewolf210 View Post
 
Yeah there are definetly some places that I would rather not be the first down so someone else can do the hard trail breaking for the traverse back

 

I would have given anything 2 weeks ago for somebody to have followed my tracks down so they could help me break trail. 5 feet of windloaded, unsupportive, upside down snow. Being chest deep in snow that isn't supportive enough to keep 118 waist skis off the bottom straight lining a 25* downhill SUCKS.  It took my two hours to get about 300 feet back into tracks.

 

And all because I got greedy and made a bad call about my ability to ski back into tracks before I ran out of momentum, but everything else I was skiing that day was "only" ~24" of fresh until I get onto the face that got some crazy windloading.

post #66 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhcooley View Post
 

You might want to be careful about that assertion on a continent that includes Whistler and Jackson Hole.

 

And Squaw.  And Kirkwood.  And Snowbird.  And Taos.  And Mammoth.  And Telluride.  And Crested Butte.  And Kicking Horse.  And Revelstoke.  And Alyeska.  And Big Sky.

 

I could go on and on.  Vail would be pretty low on the list.

post #67 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayT View Post
 

 

And Squaw.  And Kirkwood.  And Snowbird.  And Taos.  And Mammoth.  And Telluride.  And Crested Butte.  And Kicking Horse.  And Revelstoke.  And Alyeska.  And Big Sky.

 

I could go on and on.  Vail would be pretty low on the list.

 

The reason so many people bag on Vail so hard is because it is really hard to nail down what quality aspects it has brought to the sport.  At best, its the cheap all you can eat Chinese buffet where the soggy sesame chicken still tastes decent if you get a fresh tray. Only, to abuse this analogy, it is the really EXPENSIVE buffet... You get tons of quantity, but from a terrain standpoint, it is amazingly far down on the list.

 

The high speed lifts aren't what makes Vail expensive- those lifts have long been paid for. Most have been there for 20+ years, and the rate that they replace them means the lift cost is a drop in the bucket of operations expenses.  Vail's lift ticket price has always gotten funneled into financing non-skiing development.

 

As said in countless other threads, the only thing I see really innovative about Vail is their development of the cheap season pass/ridiculous day pass pricing scheme, will allows them to price discriminate tourists at will while still being the dominant player in the day skier market by offering the cheap season pass. Great for us established skier that gets great season pass deals, but it seems to be at least one driving factor that is keeping newcomers out of the sport to an extent not seen in the pre epic pass days.

post #68 of 86

Seeing the broken record Vail trashing bait….

Sniffing the bait…

Swimming away from the bait…

 

Getting stoked that NW flow is forecasted through the weekend. Translation: Vail could be slammed.

 

If it sucked, nobody would go there, right ? :D

post #69 of 86

Vail doesn't suck.  It's just not the motherland of skiing the way some people talk about it.  Anyone who's been around to other places knows better.

post #70 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayT View Post
 

Vail doesn't suck.  It's just not the motherland of skiing the way some people talk about it.  Anyone who's been around to other places knows better.

Yes and no.

 

For intermediate/advanced skiers (AKA, a vast majority of the snowsport population) it is a top choice for snow and terrain.  Maybe they’re not regarded by some as “real skiers” (although I never understood that term and find it very silly and borderline condescending), but lots of people love the place…

 

For experts, yes it falls short.  Still pretty fun, but lacking in the gnar. All those places you mentioned I would rank higher.


Edited by COBillsFan - 12/17/13 at 11:07am
post #71 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by anachronism View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayT View Post
 

 

And Squaw.  And Kirkwood.  And Snowbird.  And Taos.  And Mammoth.  And Telluride.  And Crested Butte.  And Kicking Horse.  And Revelstoke.  And Alyeska.  And Big Sky.

 

I could go on and on.  Vail would be pretty low on the list.

 

The reason so many people bag on Vail so hard is because it is really hard to nail down what quality aspects it has brought to the sport.  At best, its the cheap all you can eat Chinese buffet where the soggy sesame chicken still tastes decent if you get a fresh tray. Only, to abuse this analogy, it is the really EXPENSIVE buffet... You get tons of quantity, but from a terrain standpoint, it is amazingly far down on the list.

 

The high speed lifts aren't what makes Vail expensive- those lifts have long been paid for. Most have been there for 20+ years, and the rate that they replace them means the lift cost is a drop in the bucket of operations expenses.  Vail's lift ticket price has always gotten funneled into financing non-skiing development.

 

As said in countless other threads, the only thing I see really innovative about Vail is their development of the cheap season pass/ridiculous day pass pricing scheme, will allows them to price discriminate tourists at will while still being the dominant player in the day skier market by offering the cheap season pass. Great for us established skier that gets great season pass deals, but it seems to be at least one driving factor that is keeping newcomers out of the sport to an extent not seen in the pre epic pass days.

Well I guess one man's soggy sesame chicken is another's Bouchon Roasted Chicken by Thomas Keller. Apparently for many Vail is quality.

post #72 of 86

mikewil, that pic is nice. The only difficult portion is keeping kids off the lines.  Maintaining speed on that pitch must have been a concern

post #73 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhcooley View Post
 

 

The Expert Skier is proud to invite everyone to his home area of Vail.

 

The Real Skier tells everyone to go ski Vail.

 

 

Not if the Real Skier want's his buddies to have ski jobs. 

post #74 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Kopperud View Post
 

mikewil, that pic is nice. The only difficult portion is keeping kids off the lines.  Maintaining speed on that pitch must have been a concern

 

It was early morning prior to public opening during training. The group was all Level 3's and higher. The issue with this trail was the upper portion was usually very scrapped off and slick so you never knew what was just under the pow. Plus the "extreme" pressure of not being the one to screw up and endure the ridicule of your peers!

post #75 of 86

tball liked your definitions.  They were right on the mark.  And then there is this definition of tracked  out:

 

 

IMG_0784.JPG

 

Just sort depends on your perspective I guess.  I was 2nd one down so I would have rated it as "slightly" torn up.:)    OH yes I must add this isn't Vail - it is closer to Cooleys neck of the woods.

post #76 of 86

good banter!  Untracked is untracked.  End of story, then there's lightly tracked which means you can still ski your line in fresh, after that, its broken which leads to tracked....

 

 

last week we got a surprise foot of super blower. Everyone was waiting for the ropes to drop on a new section, since it was pretty much all locals, I headed over to a section of blue cruisers that are the visitors favorites that had been groomed the night before so there was about a foot of completely untracked over the corduroy . No one was in the area, I mean no one.  It was totally surreal just cruising down on runs that are normally tracked out first in about an hour. I was skiing with another guy, we were seriously wondering if the lifts were spinning!  We made 3 runs before anyone else showed up.  

post #77 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finndog View Post

good banter!  Untracked is untracked.  End of story, then there's lightly tracked which means you can still ski your line in fresh, after that, its broken which leads to tracked....


last week we got a surprise foot of super blower. Everyone was waiting for the ropes to drop on a new section, since it was pretty much all locals, I headed over to a section of blue cruisers that are the visitors favorites that had been groomed the night before so there was about a foot of completely untracked over the corduroy . No one was in the area, I mean no one.  It was totally surreal just cruising down on runs that are normally tracked out first in about an hour. I was skiing with another guy, we were seriously wondering if the lifts were spinning!  We made 3 runs before anyone else showed up.  
Amazing! That's midweek eh?
Now...did you lay down some crazy pattern?

Is Billy Kidd still around there skiing?
post #78 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowbirdDevotee View Post

Alta - The LEGEND is true!  Even though i've spent a little less time there than at next door Snowbird, where I appreciate the terrain more, i've had many more great powder days at Alta. 
You know, SnowbirdDevotee, I sometimes get the distinct impression that your intentions aren't pure. Methinks you're just boosting Alta to preserve your fresh tracks in Mineral Basin. Hmmmmmm?? tongue.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by tch View Post

I'm 100% with your definitions.  Some folks are purists and would see #3 as completely tracked out ....but either they're ski pros used to virgin heli-dumps or snobs.biggrin.gif
Like the desert rats I knew down south whose day would be ruined if they so much as saw a sign of another human being on a backcountry trail. Very tiresome.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

Personally, I'm a huge fan of sloppy seconds.
beercheer.gif I hated chopped up anything for ages before I learned to turn through it, but now it's kinda fun. But I'm anything but a purist. rolleyes.gif
post #79 of 86
Went to solitude last year and had a couple of nice days after fresh dumps with plenty of untracked areas hiding in plain sight. I remember riding a lift where I would look over at the Paradise lost area which is plain view and I kept wondering why no one was skiing it. I was with my wife who is more of an intermediate so I was just cruising around with her but eventually I couldn't take it and hopped over for a run. I must have stared at it for two hours before i went and hit it. This is one example, but in general I could find a lot of untouched terrain with minimal effort at Solitude. This was during the week though
post #80 of 86
Thread Starter 

Hey Everyone, Thank you for all of your posts, very informative.  Pretty much the main reason I am going to Breck this year, is a friend of mine lives there.  I  have not seen him in well over ten years.  Since he is a local I am sure he knows of some secret stashes.  Plus my pass is good for other Vail resorts.  So not worried about the crowd this year.  However, for the future I am wanting to  try some other resorts.  Someone had a good suggestion of storm chasing.  My grand plan is to go out west for the entire season, in a camper.  I have heard that ski towns are getting more and more rv friendly.  I figured it would be cheeper and I would be more mobile.

post #81 of 86
Quote:

For intermediate/advanced skiers (AKA, a vast majority of the snowsport population) it is a top choice for snow and terrain.  Maybe they’re not regarded by some as “real skiers” (although I never understood that term and find it very silly and borderline condescending), but lots of people love the place…

 

For experts, yes it falls short.  Still pretty fun, but lacking in the gnar. 

+1 And if Vail has the snow and the place with the gnar doesn't  (Crested Butte comes to mind), I'll take my chances with Vail.

 

tball's pics are a good illustration.  My usual objective is to ski #2's as far into the day as possible.   If you're a purist and start slogging out to the obscure places early to ensure #1 runs, I find up you wind up with less powder skiing by the end of the day.

post #82 of 86

Here's my take, having lived in Colorado and Utah.

 

LCC and BCC have steeper pitches (in general) so after a big dump, the resorts open in "phases".  First, this lift will open while they keep bombing, then in the afternoon that lift will open.  Or not open until the next day.  So, you often find powder for days as the resorts phase their lift openings.

 

In Colorado, every single lift is usually opened at once and everything gets tracked out hours after a dump. So, you have to try harder to find tight spots that are hard to get to.

post #83 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by lnester View Post

Here's my take, having lived in Colorado and Utah.

LCC and BCC have steeper pitches (in general) so after a big dump, the resorts open in "phases".  First, this lift will open while they keep bombing, then in the afternoon that lift will open.  Or not open until the next day.  So, you often find powder for days as the resorts phase their lift openings.

In Colorado, every single lift is usually opened at once and everything gets tracked out hours after a dump. So, you have to try harder to find tight spots that are hard to get to.

1. Several places in Colorado stagger openings while they do mitigation. WC is one.

2. I don't agree that staggered openings are better. My view is staggered openings on a big time days lead to mad crazy rushes whenever the rope drops. Plus that means all day more skiers are concentrated on the open areas of the mountain tracking up open terrain more thoroughly. Then when the ropes drop, every skier on the mountain knows exactly where to go to get the fresh snow. This may mean you get an additional powder run in the afternoon when the rope drops, but more powder skiing altogether vs. Somebody that can spend all day harvesting stashes with a spread out skier concentrations? Unlikely.
post #84 of 86

I think given the number of people at Alta or Snowbird on a powder day, the staggered openings are better.  There are enough people that if everythjng opened at once the wide open lines would all get tracked in an hour or two.  Well timed plans will get you a few terrain openings on the staggered schedule.  If the avy control is particularly difficult you can wind up with only 1/3 of the terrain open for more than half a day.  In that scenario you do run out of powder and have to wait for something else to open.  This is one reason to hedge your bets with the AltaBird pass on a powder day: more flexibility if you guess wrong what's going to be opened when.

 

I will concede these problems are likely completely foreign to anachronism's current home turf.


Edited by Tony Crocker - 12/26/13 at 8:15am
post #85 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by tball View Post

 

I also think conditioning and technique is key to skiing pow.   So many folks are toast after a couple pow runs.  On a free refills day or if the trees are skiable that usually leaves plenty of untracked lines for the rest of the day, even at the busier resorts.

 

Staggered openings is another reason to emphasize conditioning, adding to my point above.   

 

Most folks don't have the endurance to ski all the powder available with multiple staggered openings.   Folks that are in shape get a lot more pow than those that are done after the first morning of powder.   And, being in shape allows you to ski non-stop top to bottom and rest on the lift.   Just doing that gets you at least another run of freshies, especially on a high speed lift.

 

How to get in shape to ski powder?   Ski bumps!   Can you ski a whole day in the bumps?   If not, you probably can't ski a whole day in deep powder.   Spend a few days skiing bumps all day and you'll be ready when those few and far between big powder days come along!

post #86 of 86

Of the Vail Resorts in Colorado, Breck is the most likely to have staggered openings, somethings more than a day or two, depending on the storm cycle, wind, visibility, and avy conditions.

They have the most lifts and terrain that is above tree line and suspect to control work.

 

Keystone has a little bit in the North Peak / Outback bowl areas.  Beaver Creek has almost nothing except for the Royal Elk Glade areas.

 

Vail usually does not, unless they have to do control work on Lovers Leap in BSB or the cornice in the back bowls above the Teacup Express lift.

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