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Here's a tip for those looking to refine their edging skill...have at it!

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 

post #2 of 20
Maybe, since I don't have to ski at this place I'll spend some time playing with this tomorrow. Wanted to flag you for spam, but it's a nice video. More, please.
post #3 of 20
Thread Starter 

Good luck with the drill, enjoy your season, avoid the crowds if possible :)

post #4 of 20

I embedded your video.  

Please don't post the same thing in multiple forums.  

post #5 of 20

Nice video.

post #6 of 20

Yes you gotta use the ankle joint but the joint that was being used in the video for lateral movement is the femur/hip socket. Might possibly get some articulation in the ankle side to side but locked in a rigid boot that will be minimal at best. Absolutely right about this drill won't work with a pivoting of the leg. Nice video and presentation.

post #7 of 20

Getting happy on the little toe edge is important for all turns.  The ankle movement to get you there involves the ankle doing what ankles do when we sprain them.  Only the boot saves us.   

 

We ought to do more with that from day one.  Gotta feel the love for LTE!

post #8 of 20

I totally agree LF.  That's what the ice skating did for me.  My skiing is about 10X as good as last year due to my comfort on my LTE that came from getting on the center of the skate.  (On a tilted surface the center puts the ski on the edge.)

post #9 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowbowler View Post
 

Yes you gotta use the ankle joint but the joint that was being used in the video for lateral movement is the femur/hip socket. Might possibly get some articulation in the ankle side to side but locked in a rigid boot that will be minimal at best. 

 

Because of the rigid boot, that bit of ankle tipping pressures and levers the entire boot on edge. There's a cool multiplicity effect of using joints in tandem when skiing. Much like a baseball pitcher gets a ton of force by using all arm joints and upper body, we can get tons of force by using all our lower joints. Let's not forget the ankle plays a huge part!

post #10 of 20
Thread Starter 

Couldn't agree more Metaphor.  Because the knee is a hing and only operates on the fore/aft plane, adduction of the knee must involve its omnidirectional neighbors (hip AND ankle).  Snowblower - if you are unable to role your ankle in its boot, I recommend having some punchwork done to give it room to articulate.  Then head up and try this drill, you should find it much easier!

post #11 of 20

..................


Edited by Crud Buster - 12/14/13 at 9:54pm
post #12 of 20

I'm not saying the ankle joint isn't important it is and everything starts from the bottom up. I'll take it further and say from the bottom of the toes is where I feel my contact with the snow. What I am saying and look at the video especially around 1:10-1:13 that tipping is happening with the femur, yes it might be originating down at the foot but the range of movement is femur/hip socket mobility dependent.

I don't think punching out my boot giving more room will help at translating forces from the ankle movement to the boots and ultimately to the skis would help at all. It would just lead to slop in my boots where movement / tipping might happen but it will be lost in space. What I could use is new ankles for increased range of flexibility and range of motion.

post #13 of 20
Quote:
 Couldn't agree more Metaphor.  Because the knee is a hing and only operates on the fore/aft plane, adduction of the knee must involve its omnidirectional neighbors (hip AND ankle).  Snowblower - if you are unable to role your ankle in its boot, I recommend having some punchwork done to give it room to articulate.  Then head up and try this drill, you should find it much easier!

Actually the Knee is a modified hinge joint, which means it actually can have some rotation.  The tibia and fibula can rotate independent of the femure if the knee is flexed at 90 degrees or more.  The ankle however is a hinge joint.  Meaning it CANNOT rotate at all!!!  Any perceived rotation comes from the fore-foot and it is the laxitivity of the joints located in the fore-foot. Snowbowler is 100% correct in what he is saying. The movements shown on the video are caused by femur rotation not "ankle rolling".

post #14 of 20

loki, what point are you making in context of the video or developing edging skills? I didn't mention rotating the ankle or knee. I can't see anywhere that Guy does either. 

post #15 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by loki1 View Post
 

Actually the Knee is a modified hinge joint, which means it actually can have some rotation.  The tibia and fibula can rotate independent of the femure if the knee is flexed at 90 degrees or more.  The ankle however is a hinge joint.  Meaning it CANNOT rotate at all!!!  Any perceived rotation comes from the fore-foot and it is the laxitivity of the joints located in the fore-foot. Snowbowler is 100% correct in what he is saying. The movements shown on the video are caused by femur rotation not "ankle rolling".

 

If you stretch out your foot in front of you in the air as you are sitting in a chair you can move your toes left and right. That is the ankle joint rotating. Foot moves but leg reminds stable.

post #16 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metaphor_ View Post
 

 

Because of the rigid boot, that bit of ankle tipping pressures and levers the entire boot on edge. There's a cool multiplicity effect of using joints in tandem when skiing. Much like a baseball pitcher gets a ton of force by using all arm joints and upper body, we can get tons of force by using all our lower joints. Let's not forget the ankle plays a huge part!

since you mentioned baseball Met, one of my favorite slo mo videos. I think the force is actually generated in the same place all of our force is. It is cool to see the transmission down to the fingers.  way off topic but thought you might like it.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2PBLcp9tWM

post #17 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by loki1 View Post
 

Actually the Knee is a modified hinge joint, which means it actually can have some rotation.  The tibia and fibula can rotate independent of the femure if the knee is flexed at 90 degrees or more.  The ankle however is a hinge joint.  Meaning it CANNOT rotate at all!!!  Any perceived rotation comes from the fore-foot and it is the laxitivity of the joints located in the fore-foot. Snowbowler is 100% correct in what he is saying. The movements shown on the video are caused by femur rotation not "ankle rolling".

 

If you stretch out your foot in front of you in the air as you are sitting in a chair you can move your toes left and right. That is the ankle joint rotating. Foot moves but leg reminds stable.

Hmmm

I can move my toes left and right via 2 methods:

1) By rotating my femur

2) By raising and lowering the arch of my foot

 

Sitting in my chair with a foot flat on the floor (90 degree angle)  I can rotate my toes and heels in a circular motion, but my lower leg (tibia) is also rotating.

 

It doesn't matter much what you call it as long as you teach to achieve an end result. If calling that rotating the ankle works for you, then great. Otherwise - Loki gets the prize.

post #18 of 20
Sure while sitting in your living room, with your ankle in the air you may seem to be able to some movements. I would say though that if you were really Abe to isolate the foot and name by not allowing the femur or tibia/fibula to move your results would be very different than what you think.

That's not the point though. The point is that we are talking about skiing , and what we can do in that environment . Once you put a ski boot on and have a weighted or pressured foot/ankle, the rolling and/or tipping movements have to come from somewhere else. This is important because it requires that we understand where these movements come from and if the are being applied in a way to produce the desired outcome.

Long story short. The movements happen within the hip joint and involve rotation( internal and external) and adduction/abduction, requiring disciplined pelvis alignment to create these movements. You feel it in the ankle/foot but it happens in the pelvis.
post #19 of 20

   I think it is easier for some to cue in on tipping the ankle because of the fine motor control we have there. So while the movement may come from the hip (because of the necessary femur rotation), it may not as subtle as it sometimes needs to be if we focus solely on that area. Also, tipping LTE is best accomplished before  full edge change (though edge angles have certainly been reduced by this point) and while flexing the new inside so any weight bias on said ankle should be minimal...

 

   zenny


Edited by zentune - 12/24/13 at 5:53am
post #20 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post

Getting happy on the little toe edge is important for all turns.  The ankle movement to get you there involves the ankle doing what ankles do when we sprain them.  Only the boot saves us.   

We ought to do more with that from day one.  Gotta feel the love for LTE!
Pinkie leads the way!!
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