or Connect
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › General Skiing Discussion › The mysterious boiler plate, does this qualify?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

The mysterious boiler plate, does this qualify?

post #1 of 57
Thread Starter 
I keep hearing/reading boiler plate this, boiler plate that, but never seen anything that looks like it. Today the local mole hill went through a thaw/freeze and this is what I've found (only this particular section, others has been regroomed, it's a bump at bottom of the run that they use to teach boarders)

Anyway here are the photos, the last one is what 200lb worth can press into it, if the angle looks weird it's because I carved 180° back up the bump after coming down the run, the two lines are from two different attempts.

m226.jpg


q7lz.jpg


j5aw.jpg


So, qualify as boiler plate? Still not hard enough?
post #2 of 57
You can't see through it... :-D
post #3 of 57

Holly crap!!! Literally. I guess Ive never skied boiler plate but that looks like what I imagined it to look like and I pray to Ullr I never encounter it. What I consider icy many prob consider firm packed. I wouldn't even sled down that!!!!

post #4 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

You can't see through it... :-D


or at least it should be blue

post #5 of 57
Thread Starter 
Yeah, but that would need need fresh water, here all we have is dirty old snow. frown.gif

So I take it it's still not hard enough to qualify?
post #6 of 57

That looks terrifying. 

 

Hey, Head Icon TT 80's?  I have a pair of those myself.  Love them.  :)

post #7 of 57
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbiebug View Post

That looks terrifying. 

Hey, Head Icon TT 80's?  I have a pair of those myself.  Love them.  smile.gif

Yep, my new ice skates, so far love them too. smile.gif

It's not as bad as it looks, a sharp edge will hold without problem. Although if I were looking at 1000 ft of it, I might think differently.
post #8 of 57

Looks boilerplate to me.

Must have been noisy.

post #9 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by jzmtl View Post

Yeah, but that would need need fresh water, here all we have is dirty old snow. frown.gif

So I take it it's still not hard enough to qualify?

Looks like qualifying boilerplate to me.

 

It's somewhat conjectural as to whether that 200# should be able to leave a visible track in "true" boilerplate, but as far as I'm concerned that's about as close as you ever want to get.

 

Nice photos!

post #10 of 57
Thread Starter 
Thanks, now I know what boilerplate is. biggrin.gif Next step shall be blue ice.

It is noisy, hell on legs too, the foot wide ridges keep wanting to bump me off the surface and I really had to press down to make it hold.
post #11 of 57

Wait until you've skied frozen slush with groomer tracks.  That's when you're glad you have a solid heavy ski.

post #12 of 57

In the East, that is called frozen granular on a firm base! :¨) It only becomes "ice" once you cannot score it with an edge or plant a pole.  "Boilerplate" is only encountered out west.  But if these pictures had been taken west of the Mississippi, that would indeed be boilerplate.

post #13 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pacobillie View Post

 

 "Boilerplate" is only encountered out west.

 

I haven't encountered true boilerplate since I've lived out west.  Back east you'd know when you hit it because you'd go from turning to falling on your butt in the blink of an eye.  Actually, correction...Triple Treat at Copper always develops a boilerplate patch in the spring but patrol ropes it off.

post #14 of 57

That's loud powder and it looks carve able. Now go get your Powder skis and try it.:jedi:

post #15 of 57

I'd call that boilerplate.  This is the stuff us Easterners talk about to our friends in the West.  Now THIS is the fun we get in the EAST people!!! :D

 

I've had days like this at Mount Snow and Mont Tremblant.  Not fun.  Chewed up my edges pretty fast.

post #16 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pacobillie View Post
 

In the East, that is called frozen granular on a firm base! :¨) It only becomes "ice" once you cannot score it with an edge or plant a pole.  "Boilerplate" is only encountered out west.  But if these pictures had been taken west of the Mississippi, that would indeed be boilerplate.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abox View Post
 

 

I haven't encountered true boilerplate since I've lived out west.  Back east you'd know when you hit it because you'd go from turning to falling on your butt in the blink of an eye.  Actually, correction...Triple Treat at Copper always develops a boilerplate patch in the spring but patrol ropes it off.

I was being facetious and making the point that on the least coast, ski areas tend to "embellish" their conditions.

 

 

Here is a comparative lexicon:

 

East                                                                                     Western equivalent

 

Fresh powder                                                                         Powder

Loose powder                                                                         Crud

Powder                                                                                  Snow that still has a crystalline structure, whatever its age might be

Packed powder                                                                       Firm to icy base

Firm base                                                                               Ice

Icy                                                                                         Boilerplate.  .

Ice                                                                                         Bulletproof blue ice.  Impossible to hold an edge on. Unsafe to ski

Machine worked frozen granular                                               Death cookies


Edited by Pacobillie - 12/7/13 at 8:48am
post #17 of 57
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post

Wait until you've skied frozen slush with groomer tracks.  That's when you're glad you have a solid heavy ski.

That's when I say $&%# it I'm looking for another way down!
post #18 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post

 

Must have been noisy.

One of the worst ski days of my life.  I'm at Okemo Mt. on a Saturday b/c of family/friend requirements.  I'm riding the first lift up, and the whole mountain is LOUD.  I mean you can just hear this ongoing scraping, sliding, scratching sound -- so loud I think "I'm gonna need earplugs".  I've since learned to evaluate eastern snow conditions by the background volume.  Not a "skill" that is particularly applicable out west.

post #19 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pacobillie View Post
 

In the East, that is called frozen granular on a firm base! :¨) It only becomes "ice" once you cannot score it with an edge or plant a pole.  "Boilerplate" is only encountered out west.  But if these pictures had been taken west of the Mississippi, that would indeed be boilerplate.

That reminds me of when you go to check condition reports on a ski resort's website. It kind of reads like North Korean propoganda. "We may have some non-frozen precipitation, but all hail the glorious snow makers at Stratton resort who make conditions excellent."

post #20 of 57

Your pole was planted in the snow in the first picture (or being held up by a munchkin). Not boilerplate.

 

That is refrozen snow. It has air content as evidenced by the overall white color. Air content improves its edge-ability.

 

Boilerplate looks like a skating rink at an angle. Boilerplate chips when you attempt to plant a pole in it.

 

edit:

 

I'm not saying I'd enjoy skiing on the snow you photographed. I once taught a tele lesson on snow very similar to your snow. I first taught self-arrest techniques.

post #21 of 57

In the day, before grooming was very refined, broke a Scott pole below the basket in snow kind of like that.  Planted in a hole where a bamboo pole had been pulled out and put too much weight on the plant.  At the time you could buy a new shaft at the shop, so all ended well.

 

First race camp I went to was coached by a couple of old Austrian racers.  They took a fire hose the side of a steep pitch and that is where they set the gates.  The surface held up very well that week, very shallow ruts.  That was boilerplate, that was not fun.

post #22 of 57

Call me weird but occasionally I like the challenge of skiing horrible conditions. It's an outdoor sport deal with it.

post #23 of 57

I think of it as boilerplate if no tracks can be set, if no pole can penetrate it, not even 1/32 of an inch, if it's shiny (it can still be white; doesn't have to be see-through to be boilerplate), and it's very very loud, as in rattle rattle rattle clackety-clack.  There is no traction should one fall.    

 

The next level is "glare ice," through which one might read a newspaper.  Gray and transparent.  Same noise factor; clackety-clack.


Edited by LiquidFeet - 12/7/13 at 7:18pm
post #24 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by MastersRacer View Post
 

Your pole was planted in the snow in the first picture (or being held up by a munchkin). Not boilerplate.

 

That is refrozen snow. It has air content as evidenced by the overall white color. Air content improves its edge-ability.

 

Boilerplate looks like a skating rink at an angle. Boilerplate chips when you attempt to plant a pole in it.

 

edit:

 

I'm not saying I'd enjoy skiing on the snow you photographed. I once taught a tele lesson on snow very similar to your snow. I first taught self-arrest techniques.


Well in fairness we don't know how much effort or what size sledge or drill he used to get the pole to penetrate.  On the other hand I love skiing in those conditions, provided my edges are sharp.

post #25 of 57
Did someone mention sharp edges?

Skiing would get boring if we didn't have a variety of surfaces to ski. It's all good (except when too much mud and rock is mixed in.)
post #26 of 57

I agree that variety is the spice of life. I must admit that I am pleased with myself after skiing down Loveland's Twist at a NorAm race; they hose the snow and it is solid, 'chips when you strike it with a pole' ice.

 

I prefer my ice shaken with gin. What are you drinking now? :-)

post #27 of 57

Worst boilerplate I ever saw was when they held the NCAA National Championships on Stowe's Hayride. It rained a day or two before, then dropped well below zero and blew like 100 mph. I could barely stand up on it on fresh tuned SL skis, let alone ski on it. The worst part for the racers was that they all needed finishes for the team score so some of them would ski out and hike 4 or 5 times in a single run. Kids were finishing with times of like 8 minutes.

post #28 of 57

The bumps shown in the original pictures make it loud but they also give you something to grab onto.  A few years ago I was on Liftline at Stowe after a thaw-groom-refreeze cyle.  It wasn't quite boilerplate, but it was also completely smooth.   When I tried to stop I slowed down to walking speed but no slower.  What finally worked was to point 'em downhill, and then very gently carve across the hill, being careful not to let the edges break free.

 

The other alternative was to slide into the jumbled refrozen chunks on the side of the trail.  That stopped you in a hurry.

post #29 of 57

When you hit a patch of true boilerplate, you can't turn on it.  You just keep your skis flat until you pass over it.

post #30 of 57
Thread Starter 
Dang, looks like I'll have to keep looking, would like to experience all the conditions at least once, good or bad.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: General Skiing Discussion
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › General Skiing Discussion › The mysterious boiler plate, does this qualify?