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Line Sick Day 95 vs Armada TST (All-Mountain Ski Debate)

post #1 of 27
Thread Starter 

Hello Everybody,

 

I am considering the Line Sick Day 95's and the Armada TST's for a good new all mountain ski.  I will be doing most of my skiing in Colorado as I am a student out here, so I am looking for a ski that can perform well in all conditions.  Since the TST's are a bit wider, they should be better in pow but not quite as good carving up the groomers.  I'm wondering if anyone has input as to which ski will be the more playful, snappy, and responsive in bumps.  Also, a big factor is which ski will be the more nimble in trees.  I am 5'9" 180 lbs.

 

Fronizzdaddy

post #2 of 27

Paging qcanoe...

post #3 of 27

I'm 6' and 170.  So, pretty close to your specs and looking for something similar.  I will be demoing this year so I haven't skied any of these yet.  So take the following for what it's worth...

 

Super excited to try the Sick Day 95!  It's light and has an 18.2 m radius.  With the smaller 95 waist, it will be better in bumps than the TST.  From what I've read, it will handle not too deep pow and is good in the trees.  It is also pretty fun in the groomers.  I'd say go 179.

 

The TST is a bit wider so has more surface area and will be able to handle deeper powder than the Sick Day.  It skis short, has a medium flex and with a 16.8 m radius, will be snappier on the turns.  Probably the 183 on this one.

 

If you're not locked into these 2, there a couple others I'm looking at that might fight the bill for you:

 

The Salomon Q98, 97 waist.  Lighter than the both the Sick Day (just barely) and the TST, nimble and good in crud.  The surface area pretty much splits the difference between the two.  19.2 m radius @ 180.  And at $499, it's a steal!  Check Philpug's Steals and Deals thread.

 

Another good option would be The Ski by Scott.  Phil has a great review on this one.  Awesome in the bumps but might be a little narrow for anything over boot deep.

 

If you decide to demo these I'd be interested in your impressions.

post #4 of 27
Thread Starter 

Thanks for the info Rick, I'm looking forward to trying these skis too.  How do you plan on demoing them?  The ski shops I've looked at don't have them available for rental.  Do you know of any demo days soon in Colorado?

post #5 of 27

I'm in Nor Cal so I can't recommend anywhere specific in Colorado.  I'm working in a ski shop this winter so I will get some demos from there.  I will also demo some from shops in Tahoe or at the mountain.  Depends on where I can find what I want to try.

post #6 of 27

I just got the Sick Day and really liked it, no pow, just spring type conditions. Immediately felt at ease on the ski, it can handle speed, doesn't bounce around on groomers all while being light underfoot. Waiting to try it in snow and bumps. I'm not worried about jamming a bump and having the ski launch me. Also, easy to spin around......sidecut doesn't hold the ski up, doesn't get caught up.

I could see it as an every day eastern ski......even for eastern hardpack.

post #7 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by cc1 View Post
 

I just got the Sick Day and really liked it, no pow, just spring type conditions. Immediately felt at ease on the ski, it can handle speed, doesn't bounce around on groomers all while being light underfoot. Waiting to try it in snow and bumps. I'm not worried about jamming a bump and having the ski launch me. Also, easy to spin around......sidecut doesn't hold the ski up, doesn't get caught up.

I could see it as an every day eastern ski......even for eastern hardpack.

What are your stats?  Where were you skiing?

post #8 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickO661 View Post
 

What are your stats?  Where were you skiing?

5'9" 135 to 145 Level 1000

 

179cm Sick Day 95mm

 

Eastern skiing, so mostly firm groomers, bought the ski for the occassional snow we get but I can't tell you enough how happy I am w/the way it performed today on firmer spring type eastern conditions typical of early morning freeze/thaw cycle, not really any slush.

 

Definitely does more than my Nordica Steadfast (which I feel is a one trick pony for more firm groomed slopes even at 90mm underfoot)....Sick Day is gonna be it, I'm sure of it. Just gotta try bumps, trees, and pow, but the way it turns so easy I'm sure it's gonna be fine. And can go super fast on it and no chatter, just drop and lay over and the thing is arcing.

post #9 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by cc1 View Post
 

5'9" 135 to 145 Level 1000

 

179cm Sick Day 95mm

 

Eastern skiing, so mostly firm groomers, bought the ski for the occassional snow we get but I can't tell you enough how happy I am w/the way it performed today on firmer spring type eastern conditions typical of early morning freeze/thaw cycle, not really any slush.

 

Definitely does more than my Nordica Steadfast (which I feel is a one trick pony for more firm groomed slopes even at 90mm underfoot)....Sick Day is gonna be it, I'm sure of it. Just gotta try bumps, trees, and pow, but the way it turns so easy I'm sure it's gonna be fine. And can go super fast on it and no chatter, just drop and lay over and the thing is arcing.

Thanks!  I'm 3 in taller and 30 lbs heavier (10 lbs/in?  That's not good!).  I'm nowhere near your level; only a 7.  Great feedback though!  I'm looking at the 179 as well.  I'm thinking of using them in Tahoe as a daily do everything ski.  So knowing they handle the conditions you described is valuable as thing get pretty firm here during our dry spells.

post #10 of 27
There are several threads on epic about the TST, plus a couple on blister gear. Generally the reviews are very consistent. Do a Google search for them. Very easy, very quick, very playful, ski short, even fun on groomers as long as the snow is consistent. Excellent in the trees. Handling crud at speed is not their strength, but doesn't sound like that's a priority for you given the skis you're looking at. I like mine a lot.

I have not been on the sick day. I would, however, be wary of drawing conclusions about meaningful differences in behavior based on minor differences in specs. For example, it's probably not safe to assume that one is better in pow and worse in bumps based purely on a 5mm difference in waist width. 20mm, yes; 5mm, no.
post #11 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by qcanoe View Post

There are several threads on epic about the TST, plus a couple on blister gear. Generally the reviews are very consistent. Do a Google search for them. Very easy, very quick, very playful, ski short, even fun on groomers as long as the snow is consistent. Excellent in the trees. Handling crud at speed is not their strength, but doesn't sound like that's a priority for you given the skis you're looking at. I like mine a lot.

I have not been on the sick day. I would, however, be wary of drawing conclusions about meaningful differences in behavior based on minor differences in specs. For example, it's probably not safe to assume that one is better in pow and worse in bumps based purely on a 5mm difference in waist width. 20mm, yes; 5mm, no.

 

I disagree. There is a huge differrence all dependent on the way width is placed throughout the ski (in addition to flex).

 

For ex. the Nordica Steadfast at 90mm is hard on the my knees whereas the Sick Day at 95mm is so easy. It's so easy to arc a turn w/the Sick Day and when in the arc it doesn't feel like its pushing back at me, in addition I'm still accelerating through the turn, it's really an amazing feeling and easy to ski.

 

One thing I can add about the Sick Day is it's got a big sweet spot, skiers that sit a little in the back seat a la free"style" can appreciate that, while skiers that carve can also appreciate it's ability to lay right over and bend into the turn.

 

The Steadfast pushes back at me, isn't really bending through the turn as much, as is obvious because it's stiffer, but feels just as wide if not wider than the Sick Day when skiing, probably due to it's flex and shape.

 

I would only "complain" about the binding mount, in certain situations found I wanted to be slightly back from center, but I have a small foot so maybe someone w/a larger foot would have their heel placement further back, I just felt like I wanted more heel going toward the tail, but for me humanly impossible.

 

I wish I had the opportunity to try a few other skis to see how they compare to Sick Day but that 5mm does make a difference.

post #12 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by fronizzdaddy View Post
 

Hello Everybody,

 

I am considering the Line Sick Day 95's and the Armada TST's for a good new all mountain ski.

I am 5'10 and 200lbs.  I had the 183 TST and it skied way to short on anything firm.  In powder it was fun.  I sold it and bought the 192's, better on firm snow, but certainly not my 1st choice on anything but a modest powder day.  The TST has a bunch of tip rocker, so that on anything firm, it runs really short.  They are super fun in pow and turn on a dime, but on firm snow are pretty mediocre IMO.  Demo for sure.

post #13 of 27
Thread Starter 

Has anyone skied bumps with the sick days?  If they perform well there, it will be a major deciding factor.

post #14 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by fronizzdaddy View Post
 

Has anyone skied bumps with the sick days?  If they perform well there, it will be a major deciding factor.

I skied bumps w/em today and was all good. Little wide for bumps but easy to ski, but I was skiing 1 to 2 " of new snow that was super wet, then precip changed to ice, then light drizzle so snow was super sticky, Sick Day really started to shine when it hit some crud and lifted up right over it. Lotta pop on the jumps, super fun. I literally did have a "Sick Day" on them. They're exactly as described.

post #15 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by cc1 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by qcanoe View Post

There are several threads on epic about the TST, plus a couple on blister gear. Generally the reviews are very consistent. Do a Google search for them. Very easy, very quick, very playful, ski short, even fun on groomers as long as the snow is consistent. Excellent in the trees. Handling crud at speed is not their strength, but doesn't sound like that's a priority for you given the skis you're looking at. I like mine a lot.

I have not been on the sick day. I would, however, be wary of drawing conclusions about meaningful differences in behavior based on minor differences in specs. For example, it's probably not safe to assume that one is better in pow and worse in bumps based purely on a 5mm difference in waist width. 20mm, yes; 5mm, no.

 

I disagree. There is a huge differrence all dependent on the way width is placed throughout the ski (in addition to flex).

 

For ex. the Nordica Steadfast at 90mm is hard on the my knees whereas the Sick Day at 95mm is so easy. It's so easy to arc a turn w/the Sick Day and when in the arc it doesn't feel like its pushing back at me, in addition I'm still accelerating through the turn, it's really an amazing feeling and easy to ski.

 

One thing I can add about the Sick Day is it's got a big sweet spot, skiers that sit a little in the back seat a la free"style" can appreciate that, while skiers that carve can also appreciate it's ability to lay right over and bend into the turn.

 

The Steadfast pushes back at me, isn't really bending through the turn as much, as is obvious because it's stiffer, but feels just as wide if not wider than the Sick Day when skiing, probably due to it's flex and shape.

 

I would only "complain" about the binding mount, in certain situations found I wanted to be slightly back from center, but I have a small foot so maybe someone w/a larger foot would have their heel placement further back, I just felt like I wanted more heel going toward the tail, but for me humanly impossible.

 

I wish I had the opportunity to try a few other skis to see how they compare to Sick Day but that 5mm does make a difference.

 

You say you disagree with me, but your story actually proves my point perfectly. On paper, the Steadfast, which is 5mm narrower than your Sick Day, should be easier on the knees, but you say it's not. You go on to say that it "feels just as wide if not wider than the Sick Day ... probably due to its flex and shape." That's precisely my point: 5mm doesn't tell the story.

 

Finally after describing the differences you feel on two quite dissimilar skis, you conclude that "that 5mm does make a difference." Huh? Do not understand that conclusion. You offer no proof that it was the 5mm and not one of a handful of other design parameters - some of which you name - that affect how one experiences a ski.

post #16 of 27
Thread Starter 
Thanks cc1... Does it seem like they will perform welll in powder?
post #17 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by qcanoe View Post
 

 

You say you disagree with me, but your story actually proves my point perfectly. On paper, the Steadfast, which is 5mm narrower than your Sick Day, should be easier on the knees, but you say it's not. You go on to say that it "feels just as wide if not wider than the Sick Day ... probably due to its flex and shape." That's precisely my point: 5mm doesn't tell the story.

 

Finally after describing the differences you feel on two quite dissimilar skis, you conclude that "that 5mm does make a difference." Huh? Do not understand that conclusion. You offer no proof that it was the 5mm and not one of a handful of other design parameters - some of which you name - that affect how one experiences a ski.

I totally understand that these are 2 different breeds of skis. If I skied a 90mm Sick Day (if they made one) my guess is it would perform even better in bumps/glades (assuming everything else is kept the same in proportion along the ski) because it would turn quicker (ie. from the narrower waist). 

 

It's impossible to know exactly how a 95 vs 90mm Sick Day would perform since they don't make a 90mm.

 

I guess what I learned is that for me the flex is more important than the width when it comes down to 5mm differences in models.

post #18 of 27

To the OP.......

 

Both skis you have selected are light, fun and playful feeling and both are soft snow biased. Either will be adequate on firmish western snow but neither excels at it as neither is particularly grippy nor damp. Both skis ski a bit short but the TST notably so. In fact the 183 TST felt shorter to me than the 179 SD. This is due to the long rise and taper at the tip. I have skied the TST quite a bit over the last two years and in a lot of conditions and find that it is quite nimble for my 220 lbs even when skied in the 192 size. I skied the SD 95 at industry events and then several times later in the spring with a loaned demo. Both skis are very nimble and quick turning and while I don't venture into fully formed and firmed bumps if I can help it, I found both skis to be very easy in half formed mixed up conditions with soft clumps that are beginning to coalesce. I did not find the extra width of the TST to be a disadvantage in tight spots nor a notable difference on firm snow. If forced to specify which of the is better on firm snow, I'd say the SD by a touch but the deciding difference IMO was, not the width. Neither is really great at demandingly firm conditions, so not a big deal regardless.

 

These two skis are more similar than they are different and have roughly the same skill set so don't agonize too much over the choice. Both are going to be great for what you want and since you intend to demo them, go for the TST/183 and SD/179. I think you'll like both but one will probably ruffle your skirt a bit more than the other and that should be your choice.

 

SJ

post #19 of 27

I've been on both (TST brief demo last season, own a SD95) and to sum it up the SD95 is a more balanced and complete ski. All of the design elements of the SD95 work together and are not singularly noticeable whereas the TST's more extreme rocker and 5 dimension shape are dominating characteristics. The TST is less stable and much more twitchy due to the bigger rocker, shorter running length and relative sidecut. The SD95 is quicker edge-to-edge and handles a larger variety of turn shapes, it has enough contact when laid over in longer turns that it stays quiet. I haven't been in powder or much crud with the SD95 and so I can't make a comparison there. I also haven't been in zipper line bumps yet but spaced moguls are a blast on the SD95, they are also great billygoating skis due to the light weight tips and tails, super easy to pivot and hop around on. TST's ski much shorter than their length (feel about 7-10cm less) and the SD95 ski just a little bit shorter than their length (feel about 2-3cm less). As for overall feel and flex the both are 'poppy' but in a different manner, the TST is stiffer, like a diving board that immediately springs right back and the SD95 feels like a diving board with a deeper bend that releases in a smooth, consistent release. I am always skeptical of the awards (bought the SD95 strictly on design, before the magazines/reviews came out) but it has been living up to the praise thus far.

post #20 of 27

Ah, when I posted a new thread with my question on the SD95 I didn't see there was already a good thread here on it.  Now that the season is here, guess I have to stop my "drive by" postings....   :rolleyes

 

Have any of you skied the SD95 back-to-back with the Volkl Bridge?  If so, what were your impressions?  Am I wrong to think they might be similar?

 

Also, SJ, you mentioned that the SD95 is not really great at "demandingly firm" conditions -- which we do get here in the East sometimes.  On the SkiNet test scores, the SD95 got a 3.78 in "hard snow grip".  Compare that to 3.27 for the Kendo and 3.77 for the Atomic Crimson.  Is that just grade inflation for the new kid on the block?

 

Entering now my second season of Hamlet-esque demo-ing, what I'm looking for is: finesse on moguls and in trees, guts in crud, and stick-to-the-mountain-if-needed in cue-ball hardpack.  Last week I was thinking the K2 AMP Rictor 90 might be a good compromise of these attributes, and then a guy at my LSS held up the SD95s and said I ought to check them out.... 

 

Thoughts?

post #21 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimski View Post
 

Ah, when I posted a new thread with my question on the SD95 I didn't see there was already a good thread here on it.  Now that the season is here, guess I have to stop my "drive by" postings....   :rolleyes

 

Have any of you skied the SD95 back-to-back with the Volkl Bridge?  If so, what were your impressions?  Am I wrong to think they might be similar?

 

Also, SJ, you mentioned that the SD95 is not really great at "demandingly firm" conditions -- which we do get here in the East sometimes.  On the SkiNet test scores, the SD95 got a 3.78 in "hard snow grip".  Compare that to 3.27 for the Kendo and 3.77 for the Atomic Crimson.  Is that just grade inflation for the new kid on the block?

 

Entering now my second season of Hamlet-esque demo-ing, what I'm looking for is: finesse on moguls and in trees, guts in crud, and stick-to-the-mountain-if-needed in cue-ball hardpack.  Last week I was thinking the K2 AMP Rictor 90 might be a good compromise of these attributes, and then a guy at my LSS held up the SD95s and said I ought to check them out.... 

 

Thoughts?

 

 

Can't answer that as I don't write or review for ski net. IMO......TIFWIW..........I think scoring the SD higher than a Kendo on hard snow and equivalent to the Crimson ARC is preposterous. Now a Stockli SR 95 will run with the best of the 88 'ers on hard snow but the SD is not that kind of ski at all.

 

SJ

post #22 of 27

Jim, have you found the TST with all that rocker requires a little different "tune"?  I found they worked best with the edge rolled over from the front contact point forward.

post #23 of 27

SJ -- sorry, false alarm.  SkiNet is the website for both Ski magazine and Skiing magazine.  Although they both use the same format for testing skis, apparently they use different testers.  The figure I gave you for LD 95's hard snow grip (3.78) was from Skiing magazine, but the figures for hard snow grip for the other two skis were from Ski magazine.  Here's an apple-to-apples comparison:

 

                          LD 95           Kendo

Ski magazine       2.63              3.27

Skiing mag           3.78             4.08

 

This confirms what you said.  A separate question is whether figures like this (down to the 1-hundredth place!) are a bit misleading....


Edited by Jimski - 12/12/13 at 9:54am
post #24 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoJo23 View Post
 

Jim, have you found the TST with all that rocker requires a little different "tune"?  I found they worked best with the edge rolled over from the front contact point forward.


Very good question and I can deliver this feedback. When the ski has a lot of tip rocker, it's hard to get the tip to engage anyway unless maybe you're Ted Ligety. When you add a fair batch of taper as well, getting the tip to really engage is like......"Dude...not hapnin'" So, keeping the tip area rather benign in tuning makes sense to me for sure. I don't know about rolling it over but even on my Bonafides, I soften the edge forward of the rocker point with fine paper.

 

SJ

post #25 of 27
I ski everything hard, all mountain and spend a ton of times in moguls. I really didn't like my 183cm TST in bumps at all, I thought I was going to but I didn't. That ski to me felt like a 2x4 compared to my 177cm original Kendo and no comparison to my 185cm pivoty JJ in bumps. I have a 180cm bonafide and would ski it all day in any size of moguls over my old tst any day! There is no way that the new sick day 95 isn't just a complete ripper in the bumps. The rocker profile and side cut just spell easy, smeary, quick, not hooky, just plain fun in my mind. Deep snow the tst will get the award but I'm sure with as much tip rocker the sick day has you will be just fine. Just my two bits but if you are a lighter skier that spends as much time in the bumps as your body can handle then sick day over tst for sure!
post #26 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimski View Post
 

Ah, when I posted a new thread with my question on the SD95 I didn't see there was already a good thread here on it.  Now that the season is here, guess I have to stop my "drive by" postings....   :rolleyes

 

Have any of you skied the SD95 back-to-back with the Volkl Bridge?  If so, what were your impressions?  Am I wrong to think they might be similar?

 

Also, SJ, you mentioned that the SD95 is not really great at "demandingly firm" conditions -- which we do get here in the East sometimes.  On the SkiNet test scores, the SD95 got a 3.78 in "hard snow grip".  Compare that to 3.27 for the Kendo and 3.77 for the Atomic Crimson.  Is that just grade inflation for the new kid on the block?

 

Entering now my second season of Hamlet-esque demo-ing, what I'm looking for is: finesse on moguls and in trees, guts in crud, and stick-to-the-mountain-if-needed in cue-ball hardpack.  Last week I was thinking the K2 AMP Rictor 90 might be a good compromise of these attributes, and then a guy at my LSS held up the SD95s and said I ought to check them out.... 

 

Thoughts?

I have to say...I skied the Sick Day, untuned out of the box on east coast ice, and it gripped just fine. As a matter of fact, after skiing 5 or 6 days on it I decided a tune was in order for the slick am session coming....should have just let them be because they were too grippy after the tune, I did side 88 or 2 degree bevel. 

 

Have to say I really like this ski, it's become my go to ski...so comfy feeling.....no decisions about what ski to use...just grab n go.

post #27 of 27
I have a pretty good quiver of skis but your comment on not thinking about what ski to take for the day becomes very appealing. Just grab and go is the kind of ski I've been looking for. When the entire big family is in the car, or going to a hill where switching skis isn't convenient I always find myself struggling to decide on which pair to take for the day. If it's firm pack groomers then Kendos, if it's a good powder day then JJ's. It's the in between days that I ponder a little. Thats where the one ski quiver in the 95-98mm category wins I think. The bonafide is exactly that ski except for the fact that my bad knee takes a beating with the swing weight halfway through the day. I got to try the Sick days or possibly the Atomic Theory. Tough decisions for gear freaks.
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