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East Coast 2 Ski Quiver Needed - Advice Would Be Much Obliged

post #1 of 28
Thread Starter 

So after lurking here for a while and getting some feedback I think I have a some choices outlined.  Still not sure which way to go.  Here are my stats: 

 

Ski location - primarily Eastern (northern Vermont/Gore Mountain NY)

 

Height 5' 10" Weight 210.  Age 47 (2 knee surgeries to repair the ACL in left knee)

 

Ability - Advanced (I ski most expert terrain out here but I wouldn't call myself an expert)

 

I ski groomers and in the woods as often as I can.   Not a big fan of the bumps/jumps since the knee surgeries and don't need a high speed ski.

 

I was skiing on 170 Rossi S86's with the infamous KneeBinding.  The combo was working well until the ski's were damaged.   So  now Im in the market for a new daily driver and soft snow/ powder ski.  I think the following ski characteristics are what I want: easy going/easy to turn, moderate flex, forgiving, damp.  

 

Below is a compilation of some of the suggestions I have garnered to date.

 

Hard Snow  

 

Blizzard Brahma - the stiffest of the bunch?

Nordica Steadfast - 

Rossi Experience 88 - got a lot of mixed feedback on these. 

2012/2013 Head Rev 90 - saw for $349 in a 170 or 177 

Head Rev Pro 85 - everybody seems to like these.  Saw these for $479 in a 177

Line Prophet 90 TT - saw these in a 172 on sale for $359

Blizzard Bushwacker - saw a crazy good deal on these in a 166. To small but I bet they would be fun in the woods

Kastle - should I consider anything ? seem like they are big $$$ even on sale

 

I'm leaning toward the Head's

 

Soft Snow (not sure how wide to go here, my understanding is that the wider the ski the more pressure on the knee.  Then again these will not be a daily ski)

 

2012/2013 Rossi S7 - saw these on sale for $369 in a 178/188. 

Rossi Soul 7 - saw some positive feedback on these - go 180/188? 

Nordica Patron - saw good feed back on these,  what size?  

Fischer Watea- 101-  Size 182/192 for $269

 

Any advice from you folks would be much appreciated!

 

Thanks!

post #2 of 28

I would go with a cheater GS ski for hard snow , and go with a mid 90 softer ski for eastern powder days and spring skiing . Watea 94 are a good all around soft snow ski. Going over 78 under foot for a hard snow ski is a poor choice hear in the east. Just watch good skiers on a man made frozen New England powder and watch how they ski and what they are on. Very few can grip and carve on a ski over 80+. Good luck

post #3 of 28
^^^

OP says "don't need a high speed ski." Take him at his word. He was on an S86. Cheater GS does not make sense to me.
post #4 of 28

My 2-ski east coast quiver was a 71mm Head SuperShape Magnum and an 88mm Kastle BMX88, which I found skis similarly to the Blizzard Bushwacker.

 

I agree with Brad that a cheater GS ski makes sense. For most days, you're going to want something below 80mm for optimal carving. It's not about high speeds, it's about edge to edge quickness. 

 

Quite honestly, I don't think there are many days in the east where an 88mm is too narrow. If you're worried, something in the 90s would be a good option, too.

post #5 of 28

What I have found in the last three years of trying new skis and updating my 1 ski quiver is:

 

70 mm skis are a lot of fun on small hills and harder, icy conditions. They aren't the most relaxing when you ski man made clumpy snow and heavy wet snow.  I bought a Rossi Slant Nose slalom ski. It is good in icy conditions and good snow.

 

80 ish skies seem to be pretty good all around. Some are really good carvers, most are good in man made clumpy snow  and not too bad in heavy wet snow. They don't have much float in deeper snow, but aren't hard to handle either. I demo'd the Brahma and I loved it. It carved, it handled clumpy snow, easy to pivot if I wanted, and had good grip. It had a relaxed feeling to it that was really enjoyable. 

 

90-110 skis will have some float, which is nice in deep and heavy snow. They definitely ski wide compared to the other catagories. You know you are on a wide ski. I have a pair of Ullr's Chariots from SkiLogik. I use them a lot if the snow is soft or heavy. They carve and hold an edge really well. They also have some float which is also nice in deep snow. 

 

My advice is buy a 80 ish ski that suits your skiing style. You will use it almost all the time. You can then try different wide skis to see what you like. 

 

I found that there are a lot of used racestock skis for sale at really good prices. They are typically 3 years old, but they can fill out your quiver and be a really good hard conditions option. If you are a good skier, racestock skis are just better than any others. I like my 192 Blizzard GS racestocks better than any other skis in the right conditions. In the wrong conditions they are a handful.

post #6 of 28

If you don't go very fast and want something relatively easy on the knees, take a look at the Fischer Motive 80. Carves really well (though not a cheater GS ski, of course), but handles crud and steeps very well. I loved the stable yet forgiving feel.

post #7 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by qcanoe View Post

^^^

OP says "don't need a high speed ski." Take him at his word. He was on an S86. Cheater GS does not make sense to me.

The ski's he is looking at are almost as skiff as cheater GS with way to much width under foot for eastern hard snow conditions, with his weight at 210 he can handle them, In those hard snow conditions he will be better off with a ski that will challenge him somewhat to make solid turns, other wise he will be terminal skidding turns forever. Its not a matter of high speed its a matter of torsional stiffness in holding on hard snow. also rocker is useless in these conditions unless you are looking for a ski easier to initiate a skidding little control turn. Don't go with the hype go with what has worked for years.

post #8 of 28

I didn't buy them because i wanted something a little fatter (line prophet 90) but you should think about the volkl rtm 88. Was a really good northeast ski and felt like a detuned race ski. I demoed the watea and wanted to love it but found it too quick to turn. Given what you have said about the knees I'd want a driver in crud. The Kastle's rock and my buddy just got a great deal on some slightly used 2 year old models. I'm 5 9 and 50 yrs old. I'd at least demo something longer that 172's. When i bought mine last year i got a ton of good advice here about going longer. I ended up with 178's. All personal preference  but I hope this helps. 

post #9 of 28

Sadly, there aren't a whole lot of review sites angled at east coasters. For hard snow I'd echo other posters saying look at stuff under <80mm, and for soft I wouldn't look much beyond 100mm width. I did a similar thing as you and picked up a 2013 K2 A.M.P Charger for a hard snow (74mm stiff flex a little shorter with a nice big camber), and Blizzard Bushwacker (88mm softer flex longer length and much more rocker) for a soft snow and I'm pretty happy with how they've been skiing in these early conditions so far. I'm not a super expert like some of the posters on here so take this with a grain of salt.

post #10 of 28

From your list I would recommend the Brahma at 173 or 180 and the Patron at 185 (it skis very short). The Brahmas will be a great all mountain hard snow ski and the Patron is a very versatile soft snow ski even for the East, very easy to ski everywhere and it doesn't need to be a powder day for them to be fun.

post #11 of 28

I have 2 soon to be 3 to telemark on....

 

Line prophet 90 --90mm

K2 Backup -- 81mm

Soon to be SL race ski65-70ish

 

As far a alpine I have just ONE, I don't alpine much but my atomic black eye ti (81mm underfoot) do the trick

Hope this helps

post #12 of 28

This is easy, hands down, the Steadfast.

 

I'm a Volkl guy, I love my Kendos. I ski the whole mt. Slow or fast they are awesome, light weight too.

 

Saw a pair from Totem Pole ski shop in Ludlow at the Okemo ski swap last weekend for $375 in 170 cm. They was also a pair of Mantra's with them.

 

May be call Kenny or Torin at Totem Pole and see what they have. They a have selection of skis, even the newer name brands.

post #13 of 28

for where you say and your skill level

 

180cm Bushwacker

185cm Patron

 

both do well in many condition and would be a great 2 ski quiver for a off piste biased skier who is not going fast although niether are bad at high speeds.

post #14 of 28

If I could only have two skis for the East, one would be a Fischer WC SC, or similar semi-race SL ski from Atomic, Rossi, Head or Stockli, no question.  I'm one of those guys who can be happy with a solid and damp power ski or a light and lively finesse ski, so long as it has a sub 70 mm waist,  a 13 m - ish sidecut, moderate to firm longitudinal stiffness and strong torsion resistance, and is able to damp out bad vibrations.

 

The other would be something like a Bushwhacker, or Soul 7, but for that ski, I'm going on what I've read, not what I've skied.

post #15 of 28

Most of you guys (with the notable exception of Josh, among one or two others) appear to be recommending what YOU would like to be on, not what the OP actually asked for. Ghost, you recommend that Fischer SC to everyone, no matter what. :rolleyes  DMAN, it would totally be fun for you to TRY a couple of these kinds of skis, and you SHOULD, if you have the opportunity, but I wouldn't plunk down money for one without having done that.

 

Quote: DMAN19

Ability - Advanced (I ski most expert terrain out here but I wouldn't call myself an expert)...

 

...I ski groomers and in the woods as often as I can ...

 

I was skiing on 170 Rossi S86's ... was working well until the ski's were damaged ...   So  now I'm in the market for a new daily driver and soft snow/ powder ski.  I think the following ski characteristics are what I want: easy going/easy to turn, moderate flex, forgiving, damp.  

 

 

Highlights above are mine. I have skied the S86 (as well as several SL and cheater GS skis). DMAN's description immediately above ("easy going/easy to turn, moderate flex, forgiving, damp") fits that ski extremely well. Sounds like he knows what he wants. Race carvers do not fit that description, unless you are a more ambitious and experienced skier than the OP appears to be. Especially in the woods. His own list of candidate skis seems much more on target than what some of you are talking about.

 

DMAN, Josh's suggestions sound reasonable to me, but the 166cm Bushwacker you mention specifically is probably too short for your weight, as you seem already to know. So many reliable people seem to like the Rev 85 that that would also seem to be a safe choice.

 

I would consider an 88 the absolute max for width for the narrow end of a two-ski eastern quiver - which is probably what some of the race-ski advocates are thinking - but just because you stay on the narrow side does not mean you have to go for a technical ski. If you wanted to go a little more groomer-oriented than the fine choices above, there are plenty of options without going all the way to a hard-snow specialty ski. Lots of Bears seem to like the Blizzard Magnum 8.0 in that niche, although some describe this as a fairly demanding ski. An acquaintance at Saddleback - who is a big guy like you, and a very accomplished skier, but with no need to prove anything to anyone re: his quiver - uses his humble Rossi E83s all over the mountain under all conditions and loves them. (They do have more shape than your S86s, so would probably not be as friendly in the woods as, say, the Bushwacker.) I'd also be willing to bet the Dynastar Outland 80 is a really nice ski, although I haven't tried it, just because my experience has been that they make consistently solid, fluid, high-performing skis that reward but do not demand precise technique. For that matter, you can still get previous years' Dynastar Sultan 85s for a song. I have skied them back-to-back with the S86 and would describe the Sultan as being quite similar but with more backbone and better carving chops.

post #16 of 28

 

I weight the same as you and would not recommand the bushwacker. As for the rev pro 85, I own a 177 cm and I over power it easily... if you want it, go for the 184...or wait till I sell mine...;-)

Steadfast? really love this ski in trees and bumps; this is my main ski when I go to Jay...

post #17 of 28

I won't comment on the soft snow ski because I'm almost 60 lbs lighter than you.  As for the hard snow, your choices are really all mountain East Coast skis, not hard snow skis.  But then you mentioned tree skiing in your hard snow ski, so???  I wouldn't hesitate to take any of those in EC fresh (or WC for that matter, these were wide 10 years ago).  I go with other posters in recommending <80mm for your hard snow ski.  Closer to 70mm would be better.  I do see Ghost recommending WC SCs for everyone, but in this case, a good recommendation.  Truly hard snow, though, not for the woods.  At your weight, something with at least one layer of metal in it seems like a good idea for hard snow.

post #18 of 28

Question for you Dman 19: do you plan of bringing one pair of skis  or you don't mind bringing 2 and maybe change skis during the day?

I'm asking because if you plan bringing only one ski for the day, then you could go for an all mountain hard snow bias  and an all mountain soft snow bias...

But if you can bring more than one, you could go for something more towards 100% piste and an all mountain ski that is 50/50 or else to your taste... Like bringing a radical 9 sl or a fire arrow 84 edt for the groomer and an Elan amphibio xti 88 (or a steadfast,  mx88 , fx84,...) for everything else!

post #19 of 28

Check out the Rossignol Pursuit line of skis for Eastern skiing.  I have the Pursuit 18 in 170 cm (122-76-102).  Preliminary tests in the hard, artificial snow/ice on the runs this season in Summit County, CO give easy turning and good grip.  Sad to report: it doesn't snow two feet every two days in Colorado. 

post #20 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by qcanoe View Post
 

Most of you guys (with the notable exception of Josh, among one or two others) appear to be recommending what YOU would like to be on, not what the OP actually asked for. Ghost, you recommend that Fischer SC to everyone, no matter what. :rolleyes  DMAN, it would totally be fun for you to TRY a couple of these kinds of skis, and you SHOULD, if you have the opportunity, but I wouldn't plunk down money for one without having done that.

 

 

I see what you're saying, the reason I (and others) are recommending 70-ish carving skis and then something in the 80s/90s for woods/soft snow is that it just makes more sense. It's easy to hang around on these forums or go to a ski shop these days and think that an 86mm ski is a dedicated carving ski and to forget that skis in the 60s and 70s even exist. Maybe the OP hasn't been on a cheater GS ski, and demoing something like a Head Rally or a Dynastar Course Ti might be a revelation for him. Those skis make east coast carving fun as hell. 

 

But I will agree with you that he should demo before buying. That's always the best idea to find out what works for you.

post #21 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by qcanoe View Post
 

Most of you guys (with the notable exception of Josh, among one or two others) appear to be recommending what YOU would like to be on, not what the OP actually asked for. Ghost, you recommend that Fischer SC to everyone, no matter what. :rolleyes  DMAN, it would totally be fun for you to TRY a couple of these kinds of skis, and you SHOULD, if you have the opportunity, but I wouldn't plunk down money for one without having done that.

 

 

Highlights above are mine. I have skied the S86 (as well as several SL and cheater GS skis). DMAN's description immediately above ("easy going/easy to turn, moderate flex, forgiving, damp") fits that ski extremely well. Sounds like he knows what he wants. Race carvers do not fit that description, unless you are a more ambitious and experienced skier than the OP appears to be. Especially in the woods. His own list of candidate skis seems much more on target than what some of you are talking about.

 

DMAN, Josh's suggestions sound reasonable to me, but the 166cm Bushwacker you mention specifically is probably too short for your weight, as you seem already to know. So many reliable people seem to like the Rev 85 that that would also seem to be a safe choice.

 

I would consider an 88 the absolute max for width for the narrow end of a two-ski eastern quiver - which is probably what some of the race-ski advocates are thinking - but just because you stay on the narrow side does not mean you have to go for a technical ski. If you wanted to go a little more groomer-oriented than the fine choices above, there are plenty of options without going all the way to a hard-snow specialty ski. Lots of Bears seem to like the Blizzard Magnum 8.0 in that niche, although some describe this as a fairly demanding ski. An acquaintance at Saddleback - who is a big guy like you, and a very accomplished skier, but with no need to prove anything to anyone re: his quiver - uses his humble Rossi E83s all over the mountain under all conditions and loves them. (They do have more shape than your S86s, so would probably not be as friendly in the woods as, say, the Bushwacker.) I'd also be willing to bet the Dynastar Outland 80 is a really nice ski, although I haven't tried it, just because my experience has been that they make consistently solid, fluid, high-performing skis that reward but do not demand precise technique. For that matter, you can still get previous years' Dynastar Sultan 85s for a song. I have skied them back-to-back with the S86 and would describe the Sultan as being quite similar but with more backbone and better carving chops.

I am defending Ghost with the Fisher WCSC that is my eastern hard snow ski, It does have a relatively small sweet spot but with some practice he will have a well built, long lasting ski , that at his weight will be easy turning ,and will not wash out in typical eastern scraped off conditions, please give them a try or something similar before you make a mistake, Build up that knee, wear a brace and let it rip , I ruptured my ACL 16 years ago and am fine with no repair, do not let that hold you back,after you build the knee up.  

post #22 of 28
Thread Starter 

Thanks everybody. I have read over everyones responses a few times and learned quite a bit.  So now I'm inclined to expand the quiver to 3 sets of skis.  

 

All Mountain - I ordered the Head Rev Pro 85 2012/2013 with that fugly graphic last night as my all-mountain ski as a replacement to the Rossi S86.  

 

Icy East - For the icy East scraped off conditions (when I usually ski down that 3 foot wide snow lane pushed off to the side of every trail), you guys say go low to mid 70's for some hard snow/ice actual grip.   In that category, what would be some choices for the advanced but non-expert (easy going, easier to turn, forgiving, damp)?  Is there maybe a line of skis that fit that category more than others?  

 

Powder - for the occasional real powder day, I hear a lot of votes for the Patron in the reviews and 185 seems to be the size for me. Anybody like anything else?  The Rossi S7 is being discounted heavily from what I can see. Either to make room for a new line, or its not a big seller maybe.

 

Again - thank for the advice!

post #23 of 28

Any suggestions should be viewed as skis to demo.  When you do, be sure that the skis are decently tuned.  The Rossignol Pursuit 18s I suggested in a previous post were tuned to race standards (ten coats of base wax topped with Swix LF 6, edges set to 0/2 degrees, etc., etc.) which skied like you requested: "for the advanced but non-expert (easy going, easier to turn, forgiving, damp)?" but that's for me, not you.  Demo so you get the skis for you. 

post #24 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMAN19 View Post
 

 

Icy East - For the icy East scraped off conditions (when I usually ski down that 3 foot wide snow lane pushed off to the side of every trail), you guys say go low to mid 70's for some hard snow/ice actual grip.   In that category, what would be some choices for the advanced but non-expert (easy going, easier to turn, forgiving, damp)?  Is there maybe a line of skis that fit that category more than others?  

 

 

Was, having the same conundrum earlier. The skis I was looking at were:

k2 A.M.P Charger (ended up going with this one in the end)

Dynastar Course ti (heard nothing but good things and was contending for my wallet with the charger)

Fischer Progressor 800

Blizzard Ultrasonics

post #25 of 28

DMAN19,

 

I had a pair of Fischer Progressor 9+ as my east coast ski and they were fantastic on hard pack and ice.  I couldn't recommend them highly enough to anyone who asked about a ski for those conditions.  Then I started to ski more often in northern Vermont in more mixed snow conditions and I found them to be a lot of work.  I thought that I'd go with a 2 ski quiver and after a lot of reading and a demo I ended up with a pair of Kastle MX88's.  I figured I'd use these when I skied in northern Vermont and the Fischer's everywhere else.  The MX88's are so good in mixed conditions and are about 90% of the performance of the Progressors on hard pack that I sold the Fischers and only have the MX88's.

 

Others with more experience may disagree but if it was me I'd demo a pair of MX88's and see if they work for you in both hard and soft snow conditions.  If not then I'd consider them for hard snow because they do so well in mixed conditions as well and on any given day you're likely to run into both types of snow.

post #26 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by qcanoe View Post
 

Most of you guys (with the notable exception of Josh, among one or two others) appear to be recommending what YOU would like to be on, not what the OP actually asked for. Ghost, you recommend that Fischer SC to everyone, no matter what. :rolleyes  DMAN, it would totally be fun for you to TRY a couple of these kinds of skis, and you SHOULD, if you have the opportunity, but I wouldn't plunk down money for one without having done that.

 

Quote: DMAN19

Ability - Advanced (I ski most expert terrain out here but I wouldn't call myself an expert)...

 

...I ski groomers and in the woods as often as I can ...

 

I was skiing on 170 Rossi S86's ... was working well until the ski's were damaged ...   So  now I'm in the market for a new daily driver and soft snow/ powder ski.  I think the following ski characteristics are what I want: easy going/easy to turn, moderate flex, forgiving, damp.  

 

 

Highlights above are mine. I have skied the S86 (as well as several SL and cheater GS skis). DMAN's description immediately above ("easy going/easy to turn, moderate flex, forgiving, damp") fits that ski extremely well. Sounds like he knows what he wants. Race carvers do not fit that description, unless you are a more ambitious and experienced skier than the OP appears to be. Especially in the woods. His own list of candidate skis seems much more on target than what some of you are talking about.

 

DMAN, Josh's suggestions sound reasonable to me, but the 166cm Bushwacker you mention specifically is probably too short for your weight, as you seem already to know. So many reliable people seem to like the Rev 85 that that would also seem to be a safe choice.

 

I would consider an 88 the absolute max for width for the narrow end of a two-ski eastern quiver - which is probably what some of the race-ski advocates are thinking - but just because you stay on the narrow side does not mean you have to go for a technical ski. If you wanted to go a little more groomer-oriented than the fine choices above, there are plenty of options without going all the way to a hard-snow specialty ski. Lots of Bears seem to like the Blizzard Magnum 8.0 in that niche, although some describe this as a fairly demanding ski. An acquaintance at Saddleback - who is a big guy like you, and a very accomplished skier, but with no need to prove anything to anyone re: his quiver - uses his humble Rossi E83s all over the mountain under all conditions and loves them. (They do have more shape than your S86s, so would probably not be as friendly in the woods as, say, the Bushwacker.) I'd also be willing to bet the Dynastar Outland 80 is a really nice ski, although I haven't tried it, just because my experience has been that they make consistently solid, fluid, high-performing skis that reward but do not demand precise technique. For that matter, you can still get previous years' Dynastar Sultan 85s for a song. I have skied them back-to-back with the S86 and would describe the Sultan as being quite similar but with more backbone and better carving chops.


There are reasons I always recommend the Fischer WC SC for someone who is skiing hard snow/icy conditions and is not looking to be speeding down the hill making large GS turns:

1) The ski is very forgiving (with the base tuned to the stock 1 degree bevel), so anyone from intermediate on up can ski it without getting beat up by it;

2) The ski has enough grip and beef in it that they won't out grow it, and if they make a mistake and get going a bit to fast it has the chops to maybe save their adz by making a turn up hill instead of vibrating and rattling nearly off their feet before dumping them on their head (how my brother, who did not take my advice to get a decent ski decided he didn't want to play skiing any more);

3) While it is a bit too stiff form bumps or soft deep snow, at a short 165 cm (an ideal length for that type of ski), it is easy enough to manage in any type of moguls (even by me and I suck at moguls);

4) At 13-m radius and soft enough that you don't need a big hill to wind it up, you can make a lot of turns per run and they are easy to make;

5) With it's slim waist, you will have the light quick feeling when switching back and forth making turns,  that feeling, that radius, that grip, that ease, all combine to make it a joy to ski on hard packed groomers; you may not think you like to do anything with groomers except ski along the ungroomed snow at the side of them, but once you discover how much fun it is to make good hard carved turns every which way all over the hill, quickly changing directions, you will enjoy the entire width of the groomers, no matter what the conditions are.

 

Note: I do not recommend the SC to everyone.  It is not a deep snow ski, and not the best choice for a foot and a half of wet tracked out snow.  Also if you are advanced to expert and not a lightweight and not stuck  on a 250' vertical hill you would enjoy the SL or GS better, or some other ski that is in between but stiffer than the SC.  If you prefer long turns to short turns and have at least 400' vertical, I would be recommending the RC (or GS if you like speed and are near to expert).

post #27 of 28

If I were you, I would ski the Head Revs that you've already purchased to see how they do under icy conditions before I went out and bought another ski that is specific to those conditions.  I don't personally see a significant need for soft snow skis at Gore (I'm not talking about Jay, or off-trail at Mt. Mansfield, or a powder day at MRG), I think all mtn. skis do just fine.  YMMV.

 

STE 

post #28 of 28

Dman19,

 

I was a one ski quiver person all my life and 2 years ago I became a 3 ski quiver person. Knowing what I know now, I would buy a Brahma for 90% of my skiing and something wide for the 10% new snow days and spring skiing mashed potatoes. A ski like the Brahma, or the MX88, or a few others are so good and versatile, its not worth the hassle of changing skis. When you get to ski a dump or really soft spring conditions, you "might" want a wide ski, but its not absolutely necessary.

 

I have demo'd the Head Rev 85, I am not sure if it was the Pro model, not sure what Pro model means. I am 6'4" and 250lbs. They were good skis, but compared to the Brahma I demo'd the same day, they felt like intermediate skis versus Brahma's expert level. They had no real vices, just not really lively or great grip or quickness edge to edge. This is my opinion, so take it for what its worth. 

 

Maybe the Pro model is a bit stiffer and more lively, I don't know. I think you are in the right size and style of ski with the Head, and you can take your time and demo if you want. If you are trying to take advantage of current sales, a wide ski I have been thinking about is the Atomic Bent Chesley (sp), sopposedly a good all around wide ski.

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