or Connect
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › General Skiing Discussion › Friend want to learn to ski, what to do?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Friend want to learn to ski, what to do? - Page 3

post #61 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by marznc View Post

Umm . . . I wouldn't say that most women are afraid of speed.  Although I would agree that those who learn to ski as adults over 30 take longer to gain enough confidence to really enjoy speed.  I think it's more that men who are afraid of speed are very unlikely to admit it.  Have you heard of Mermer Blakeslee's book about fear called A Conversation With Fear?

Where do you ski the most?
Really? I have yet to see an out-of-control female ski bomber in the typical weird half-squat stance ready to mow down people on the slopes...I'm not much of a reader. What does it say?.. SS for convenience and mammoth for quality/quantity.
post #62 of 82

not again....

post #63 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by nochaser View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by marznc View Post

Umm . . . I wouldn't say that most women are afraid of speed.  Although I would agree that those who learn to ski as adults over 30 take longer to gain enough confidence to really enjoy speed.  I think it's more that men who are afraid of speed are very unlikely to admit it.  Have you heard of Mermer Blakeslee's book about fear called A Conversation With Fear?

Where do you ski the most?
Really? I have yet to see an out-of-control female ski bomber in the typical weird half-squat stance ready to mow down people on the slopes...I'm not much of a reader. What does it say?.. SS for convenience and mammoth for quality/quantity.


Is this a deliberate troll?

 

Maybe you ski at very different places than the admittedly few I've been to.   Around here, teenage girls on either skis or snowboards are perfectly willing to bomb slopes.  Screaming all the way, sometimes, but not like they're actually upset.  Lots of wedges down what passes for black runs here in MN, but some out-and-out straight-liners, too.   I'd grant that they're maybe less prone to try to look like they're "racing" than the boys the same age.  But they're not going a whole lot slower.

post #64 of 82
Not at all. Let me clarify what I mean.

Compared to beginner skiers, beginner snowboarders, male, female, young or old, seem to be in less control and more prone to build up speed unintentionally and crash into people on the slopes.

The profile I was referring to is reckless skiers that I come across more often than not that are just starting to get a hang of ski control that purposefully fly down the slope at high speed. They think they are in control but they are not...male skiers in my experience. I got rear ended by one of these before.
post #65 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by nochaser View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by marznc View Post

Umm . . . I wouldn't say that most women are afraid of speed.  Although I would agree that those who learn to ski as adults over 30 take longer to gain enough confidence to really enjoy speed.  I think it's more that men who are afraid of speed are very unlikely to admit it.  Have you heard of Mermer Blakeslee's book about fear called A Conversation With Fear?

Where do you ski the most?
Really? I have yet to see an out-of-control female ski bomber in the typical weird half-squat stance ready to mow down people on the slopes...I'm not much of a reader. What does it say?.. SS for convenience and mammoth for quality/quantity.

My point was simply that I disagree with a generalization about women based on your personal experience.  As an older women who skis in a lot of different regions, I try not to make assumptions based on gender or age.  Blakeslee's book has examples of both men and women who deal with fear on the slopes.

 

Any way, sorry for the hijack.

post #66 of 82
Got it. I was simply asking about the book because I just didn't know. At the end of the day, I just do my best to ski safely for myself and others.
post #67 of 82
Thread Starter 
Well hopefully I won't have any need for that book. If she plateaus due to fear I'm not going to push it.
post #68 of 82
Thread Starter 
Oh I would also like to thank everyone who offered advice, I did read them all and was careful on what to do/say (lots of compliment, no negatives).

Also I was glad that she didn't fall once while getting off the lift. biggrin.gif Okay the first two times I had to cheat and hold her up, but after that and some reminder on weight distribution, it was no longer necessary.

Next time I'll try to get some video for MA.
post #69 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by jzmtl View Post

Well hopefully I won't have any need for that book. If she plateaus due to fear I'm not going to push it.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzmtl View Post

Oh I would also like to thank everyone who offered advice, I did read them all and was careful on what to do/say (lots of compliment, no negatives).

Also I was glad that she didn't fall once while getting off the lift. biggrin.gif Okay the first two times I had to cheat and hold her up, but after that and some reminder on weight distribution, it was no longer necessary.

Next time I'll try to get some video for MA.

You are doing a great job!  Appreciate the updates.

 

Those who need a book to deal with fear are sometimes adults or older teens who go with friends to a ski hill and then the friends leave them on their own after the first lift ride.

 

I suggest you get her permission before you put up a video for MA.

post #70 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by marznc View Post
 

I suggest you get her permission before you put up a video for MA.

 

Yup.  

Better yet, don't ask permission and don't put up a video of your friend here.

 

You know how people sometimes have strong feelings about a photo of themselves that they don't like?

It works the same with videos of themselves skiing.  

Then imagine complete strangers pointing out all the weaknesses, without a bit of congratulatory affirmation. 

 

When you get video of her skiing, let her watch it privately first. 

Don't watch it with her until she comes to terms with it and asks for your response.

Just answer her questions at first, testing out how she feels about what she sees.

Make sure you point out the strengths in her skiing first and last in your discussion.

Sandwich suggestions for improvement in between, and keep devoting words to describe for her the good stuff she is doing.   


Edited by LiquidFeet - 1/7/14 at 9:30am
post #71 of 82
Definitely let her watch it alone. If she wants your help understanding what she sees, fine. But only if she asks.
post #72 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

I remember 20 years ago, a Friday evening at Camelback. Top of the mountain and a girl is sobbing. Her boyfriend took her up the chairlift to the top, she had never been skiing. And proceeded to take off, leaving her. I told her I would get Ski Patrol to come get her (there was no way she could have skied it, horrid ice and lots of young people being drunken idiots). I also told her she needed to realize this guy was NOT HER FRIEND and to dump him. She was probably the worst case I've ever seen, but certainly not the only one, where some yahoo really doesn't want to put up with a beginner as soon as they realize what it really means to forego your own pleasure to help the newbie. They forget their own shakes and assume that their memory of their prowess should be indicative.

You never know. The girl might have really pissed off her boyfriend/friend. Students need to be coachable too. There are only a very few mean jerks in this world that would leave their GFs like that. People usually are helpful and nice when treated as such. Also, he would've probably come back later. If there is something totally absurd going on, there is a good reason why. Remember it takes two to tango.

If you're gonna put yourself into a unpleasant or difficult situation and put up with it, you better know why and what your intended outcome is. This is why I don't attempt to teach my wife. I'm not the best of a teacher. It's just not worth it for me at this stage of her ski development. I'd rather pay professionals to do it right and check in on her every now and then.
post #73 of 82
There might be some other side to that story, but I'm not going to debate it.
post #74 of 82

Men call it the Baptism of Fire, sink or swim approach.  But it's like taking a brand new recruit with no skills and no training onto a highly active battlefield, giving them a gun and expecting them to survive.  A very few do, but most are nothing more than cannon fodder.  And so it is on the ski hill.  If you have no regard for the safety or general well being of the other person, then that might be a reasonable approach to you. 

 

The irony is that in general women are more teachable than men - no ego involved, just give me the skills that I need to be safe and do the things I want.  They are better listeners.  Their motives are not the same as yours, guys. 

 

I get those students 10 years later when they finally get over the trauma and decide to try again - without their spouse as their teacher.  And they are still pissed at him.  :-)

 

Surfdog

post #75 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by nochaser View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

I remember 20 years ago, a Friday evening at Camelback. Top of the mountain and a girl is sobbing. Her boyfriend took her up the chairlift to the top, she had never been skiing. And proceeded to take off, leaving her. I told her I would get Ski Patrol to come get her (there was no way she could have skied it, horrid ice and lots of young people being drunken idiots). I also told her she needed to realize this guy was NOT HER FRIEND and to dump him. She was probably the worst case I've ever seen, but certainly not the only one, where some yahoo really doesn't want to put up with a beginner as soon as they realize what it really means to forego your own pleasure to help the newbie. They forget their own shakes and assume that their memory of their prowess should be indicative.

You never know. The girl might have really pissed off her boyfriend/friend. Students need to be coachable too. There are only a very few mean jerks in this world that would leave their GFs like that. People usually are helpful and nice when treated as such. Also, he would've probably come back later. If there is something totally absurd going on, there is a good reason why. Remember it takes two to tango.

If you're gonna put yourself into a unpleasant or difficult situation and put up with it, you better know why and what your intended outcome is. This is why I don't attempt to teach my wife. I'm not the best of a teacher. It's just not worth it for me at this stage of her ski development. I'd rather pay professionals to do it right and check in on her every now and then.

Oh whoah there buddy.  You are so wrong about how the never-ever person must be coachable and can be to blame for not learning as fast as the "friend" wants.

 

It is quite common for people who have been skiing their whole lives to forget the learning process and think that skiing comes naturally.  So they take their noobie friends to the top and tell them it's not rocket science, just turn left then right.  When it doesn't work, they shout the same instructions again, and eventually when that doesn't work they leave to have a nice day on their own, frustrated at how stubborn or uncoachable the newcomer to skiing is.  This provides lots of good stories for the rescuers to tell later, and I've heard lots of those and been a rescuer myself.  Nope, it's the "teaching" friend who is the problem.  

 

You are right to not try to teach your spouse.  However, you sound rather fed up with how much time it's taking for her to learn.  I hope I'm wrong, and there's some compassion there.

post #76 of 82

Start with a small hill and a few lessons. Unless they have an incredible fear of heights they should be able to handle it. Never take someone to the top of a big hill and dump them off. A tow bar is a good start if you can find one these days. Plowing snow is always the first step and then take it from there with a bunny hill. Lots of patience is required to and a little apres ski doesn't hurt to keep it fun. 

post #77 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post

Oh whoah there buddy.  You are so wrong about how the never-ever person must be coachable and can be to blame for not learning as fast as the "friend" wants.

It is quite common for people who have been skiing their whole lives to forget the learning process and think that skiing comes naturally.  So they take their noobie friends to the top and tell them it's not rocket science, just turn left then right.  When it doesn't work, they shout the same instructions again, and eventually when that doesn't work they leave to have a nice day on their own, frustrated at how stubborn or uncoachable the newcomer to skiing is.  This provides lots of good stories for the rescuers to tell later, and I've heard lots of those and been a rescuer myself.  Nope, it's the "teaching" friend who is the problem.  

You are right to not try to teach your spouse.  However, you sound rather fed up with how much time it's taking for her to learn.  I hope I'm wrong, and there's some compassion there.
Hmm not quite. It was a speculation about the possibility of relationship troubles that could've been in play unrelated to skiing. Nobody knows what caused the dude to behave like that.

You're are probably correct about the underlying agenda on my personal approach about teaching in general being implied in my statement. At the end of the day, patience is clearly is a virtue.
post #78 of 82
The victim in that instance did not confess to a fight. But the general situation was not any different than a number of others I've come across in forty-two years.
post #79 of 82
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post

Yup.  
Better yet, don't ask permission and don't put up a video of your friend here.

You know how people sometimes have strong feelings about a photo of themselves that they don't like?



It works the same with videos of themselves skiing.  



Then imagine complete strangers pointing out all the weaknesses, without a bit of congratulatory affirmation. 



 



When you get video of her skiing, let her watch it privately first. 
Don't watch it with her until she comes to terms with it and asks for your response.
Just answer her questions at first, testing out how she feels about what she sees.
Make sure you point out the strengths in her skiing first and last in your discussion.
Sandwich suggestions for improvement in between, and keep devoting words to describe for her the good stuff she is doing.   

Good point, I won't do it then. smile.gif
post #80 of 82

Sounds like it's going well.

Going forward, be careful of overterraining. Even a short steep pitch on a green/blue can undo a lot from fear. If it does happen, go back to the flat slopes and make turns.

For video, you could post in "Ask a Ski Pro" thread which is restricted for commenting. That would prevent her video from becoming an argument about something else. If you youtube it, then take it down, it doesn't show up any more. (I believe.)

post #81 of 82
Thread Starter 
I don't plan to go pass green this season, so overterrain shouldn't be a problem. If she's okay with the video thing, I'm not going to show her the thread, just any useful bits that I filtered out.
post #82 of 82
Thread Starter 
Out for the 4th time today. I think the reason it didn't end up in disaster is that the main goal for us is to have fun just like going to a movie or such, not teaching/learning, so we are both laid back and there's no goal of what needs to be learned,

Anyway I think she's doing great, can link turns well and handle steeper greens without problem. When mentioned in conversation she's okay with me put video up for some third opinions. I'll post a thread in a moment. biggrin.gif
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: General Skiing Discussion
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › General Skiing Discussion › Friend want to learn to ski, what to do?