Originally Posted by Tog
Yes, I don't get how angulate does anything other than increase edge angle and hold onto the turn more. It is the opposite of anything that will cause release.
Angulation is nothing more than bending the upper body outwards (or if you have some counter, then bending forward). It is a balancing mechanism. It counter balances the fact that your skis are tipping and moving your CoM towards the ground. Angulation allows you to create more edge angle yes, while still maintaining outside ski bias in balance.
Making a move to create more angulation does not really in and of itself create more edge angle. You have to tip your skis inside, move your knee inside, etc...and angulate the upper body outwards at the same time, thus maintaining balance while creating more edge angles.
Now what happens if you angulate your upper body out WITHOUT tipping your feet more? What if you angulate a bit more even while your skis are starting to flatten? You lose balance to the outside. If you lose balance to the outside, you begin to release.
FWIW, this move is very very helpful when doing white pass drills.
Originally Posted by Tog
Went and reread SD72's post. We're talking about the same mechanisms. I'm talking using body to make lower legs go from inclined much less inclined- enough to release. It may not be vertical to slope.
Well the problem with this statement is that you're forgetting that your legs are connected to your body mass which has to be moved also. How do you move that body mass outwards?
if you have a lot of knee angulation like you do in the anticipation photo, you can un-inclinate that outside ski a small amount, by moving your knee outwards, but if you do that without moving your CoM along with it and changing your state of balance along with it, you will become inside biased...the ski will either skid away or you could even fall to the inside. It does the opposite of toppling you across. un-inclinating your knee angulation will not move your CoM out at all!
Originally Posted by Tog
Note, while we're at it. Photo under "Anticipation". An example of up-unweighting to release while flexed. but not releasing by flex. Might have been some tipping of downhill foot, but main mechanism - allowing body to go over, after the check, flattens the downhill ski.
Anticipation-Release; skier: "Tog" at Arapahoe Basin Photo Bob Barnes
I'm very happy to see a proper depicition of anticipation here in these BB/Tog photos!
Anticipation itself doesn't cause a release as we've been discussing. In this case I think BB is refering to the release of the anticipation windup, not the release of turn forces. Release of anticipation windup causes pivoting, very useful sometimes. But that anticipation release won't even happen until the edges are released. The edge release happens when you either flatten your skis or unweight your skis.
So how did you make your skis go flat here? In particular the uphill ski is not going to go flat until your CoM moves out and down the hill. It has to be released.
There are a lot of missing photos to see all your actions, but LF's observation is probably relevant about lightening your downhill ski. You can see in the first image your downhill ski is edged a lot more and bearing most of the load and you have a lot of anticipation and angulation over the outside ski there. You can see your knee higher in the second photo. If you changed your weight platform to the uphill leg by relaxing the downhill leg and even retracting it up, then your body mass would have toppled you down the hill and your legs would have un-inclinated to flat skis, then finally anticipation would unwind you with a strong pivot. As you say, you don't recall tipping or flexing your downhill leg. Ok fine, there are missing frames to see the whole story, but LF is right, your left leg is bent more in the second frame which means you did flex it. Perhaps you were not aware you were doing it and perhaps aggressive tipping of that foot was not happening.
But just lightening may have been enough also, given you had established so much angulation and downhill ski weight bias in the first frame.
However there is one more thing here, your downhill leg has a lot of knee angulation going on in frame 1. So yes, if you have a lot of loaded knee angulation like that there you could potentially move the knee out, which would help to flatten the ski, but it would not move your CoM out at the same time. If you did that, you would actually lose toppling, your CoM would topple inside and/or that downhill ski would skid away, without other combined actions.
So I do not believe you did that without also doing some of the other things we have discussed, probably lightening your downhill foot to remove load is huge part of what you did there, which does contribute to toppling your CoM.
Edited by borntoski683 - 11/12/13 at 11:22am