Originally Posted by tanscrazydaisy
Adding in these days, (and continue the discussion with stability control), the stability control can do a better job then no-braking, as it can selective brake a wheel (even better if the ABS system is 4-channel), to correct a skid.
Skidding is from having a traction differential, front to rear, side to side. You can drive in a straight line, and start to skid without even touching the brakes in the snow.
ABS computers can react faster than our brain and foot, so during the fraction of the second it's not braking, you have your traction you NEED to turn.
This gets back to tire designs integrating with electronic systems. A really good tire should gain traction as it slips by packing snow in the right way, even just small amounts on icy surfaces. If you have that type of tire, ABS actually defeats the traction of the tire.
When a tire is designed to work with ABS, getting back to breakaway threshold, once it goes the ABS system is now attempting to address traction that is not being quickly regained. This is why I won't run studless can winter tires. Too many breakaway failures, ABS happily pumping away.
I know you've seen me post this before that I took last year, comparing a 2007 Nissan Quest with studded winter tires and 1995 Land Cruiser. It is slick - the Quest could barely get back up this hill (I won't post that vid again). First is the Quest, and you can tell when ABS engages (it slips immediately). Second is the Cruiser, and definitely obvious when ABS engages, but admittedly that is also a not so tight recirculating ball steering system.
After that it is all Cruiser, ABS off, mashing the throttle and the brakes. Look at the tire track as I back up at the very end. The tire has consolidated a little bit of powder on top of the ice, and what happens from the driver's perspective is the slide slows, and them comes to a quick reassuring thunk once the tire pulls in enough of that powder surface. The winter tires never do that. The studs create about an equal level of bite, but without them all of the studless winter tires I have used will more or less keep on going until friction, gradient, or grippier conditions prevail.
You can steer in a controlled slide with a little bit of throttle input when the vehicle is actually coming to a stop. I get that this is too much of an ask for how we train drivers, but I don't think last drivers will steer around an accelerating ABS engagement, either. So it is either a tire designed for traction in the absence of electronic controls or studs for me, because those are the only two things that overcome threshold breakaway problems in modern systems.