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Upright boots for chicken shins

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 

I have been in a pair of Nordica Pro 130's for around four years now (26.5 - 9.5 street shoe). Liners are Zipfit World Cups with Aline inserts. The fit was very good, right out of the box. But I have had to do some work to get in a more neutral stance. I have 4mm shims that are integrated into the toe piece of my VIST bindings. And I have 3mm toe shims on the boots. I put an instaliner (?) shim in the tongue because I have chicken shins to go along with my very low volume feet. I took the rear spoiler out as well.

This setup has served me well, but it seems that my style of skiing has changed. Over the past two seasons, I have been broadening my terrain from fast groomers, to some off piste, trees and moguls . Been going out west for powder experiences as well. I find that the aggressive stance and stiffness of the Pro's is not as suitable for these more varied conditions. I get the feeling that I am too locked into an aggressive stance for these more mixed conditions. Quad issues as well - not from backseat driving either.

My thought is to either soften the Pro's and do something that can give me a more upright stance, or get into a different boot. Have been looking at the RS 110 from Lange that boasts a more natural stance wit a softer flex (me-175lbs). I have fit well into Technica's in the past. But the Nordica 97mm last has fit me like a dream, so I would be inclined to stay with that line. Other boots I should consider?

Thanks for the advice.

D1

post #2 of 13

why not just try to soften the boots you have, that you like, that you have done a BUNCH of work too?

post #3 of 13
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mntlion View Post
 

why not just try to soften the boots you have, that you like, that you have done a BUNCH of work too?

Of course, that is the easy part. But what of the upright part?. Suggestions?

Tx.

D1

post #4 of 13

Oh,  they are STILL not upright enough?

 

with chicken legs, do you have slop around the top of the boot still?   sometimes adding a power strap about the liner only, will help to pull the sin back into the boot and get ride of any play at the boots top

 

 

also, one of the guys here, does a mail order "uprighting" boot service.    I forget who right now....

post #5 of 13
Thread Starter 

Yep. Already have the Power Straps to take up the slop.

I will look for the guy with the boot "rack." I have seen his posts as well.

Tx.

D1

post #6 of 13

Adjusting boot forward lean = 50.00 plus shipping----we do it all the time.

 

see the tool here----- http://southernski.com/toe-jam-spreader-ultimate-cuff-stretcher.html

 

will need info---pm me with leg circumference at top of liner, then ship the boots, 2 day turnaround.

 

miket

post #7 of 13
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by miketsc View Post
 

Adjusting boot forward lean = 50.00 plus shipping----we do it all the time.

 

see the tool here----- http://southernski.com/toe-jam-spreader-ultimate-cuff-stretcher.html

 

will need info---pm me with leg circumference at top of liner, then ship the boots, 2 day turnaround.

 

miket

pm coming.

D1

post #8 of 13

your approach to this problem is like when a skier comes into my shop and telling me that he needs a toe punch and during assessment you discover that the boot is 2 sizes too large. code named "don quixote syndrome"

 

where is the assessment that has you raising your boot externally, your binding delta to 0, pulling your leg back with an eliminator tongue and a booster strap?

 

i think your stance is jacked, and you are going the wrong direction.

 

the operative clue is that you have designed your stance for railing groomed slopes.and that you are needing to use muscle tension to overcome your jacked up stance. the other tell is that you have very skinny legs.

 

it is real easy to set the boot up up for very one dimensional skiing. expand that to varied terrain, snow types, or the real world of skiing and all of a sudden the unnatural stance that you have gravitated into no longer allows the engine of the train, your ankle joint, to do what it does best.

 

i went back to find the thread where you were asking about the zeppa relative to your 0 delta binding and your gas pedaled boot. not once did anyone try to establish with you what the range of motion in your ankle joint is like. unless you have an ankle joint that is so loose you can touch the knee to the floor while keeping your foot flat, or so locked that you have no dorsiflexion, the set-up you are skiing with is for someone else. if you straighten the boot or soften the boot, you are making fixes for the mistakes you have made in the very first move which is balancing the zeppa/FL to the ROM of your ankle. if you get that part correct and put a neoprene collar around your thin calfs, you will be much closer to a good skiing set-up.

 

stop, assess, and start over!

 

or get your boots softened, and straightened up further, and add two more variables into the mix before you discover what your real needs for balance are.

 

jim


Edited by starthaus - 11/9/13 at 12:36pm
post #9 of 13
Thread Starter 

Jim,

I appreciate your input. Since I do not speak the technical lingo so well, some of the geometry/physiology was lost on me.

I get the part about how I have tweaked the boots to maximize a single kind of skiing terrain. And how, you suggest, my stance has adapted to that  in a way that is not compatible with more varied terrain.

Since you have made a diagnosis, what changes to these boots (addition or subtraction) should I make to address my "jacked stance."  How does one balance "the zeppa/FL to the ROM of your ankle."  And, if you will, what does that do? Essentially, what should I do to "start over." All ears here.

Much obliged for your help.

David


Edited by deliberate1 - 11/10/13 at 8:03am
post #10 of 13

i have made an assumption based on what i can read in your words on epic.

 

your words describing what you have done to your boots read like a recipe to a cake that has been prepared over multiple seasons.

 

what is missing from the recipe is any evaluation of your body and your skiing that would lead you to soften your boot, straighten your boot, add an external toe lift, eliminate the delta on your ski, put a hunk of foam in front of your thin legs, and add a booster strap.

 

for all the right reasons those moves could be solutions to all sorts of problems. because i could not track back to any threads where you actually describe a problem that needed any of these solutions it is impossible to know how to help you from here.

 

my recommendation is that you seek out a competent fitter and let them do an assessment of your feet/lower legs, and your boot set-up. be open to starting over to get you properly balanced over your skis.

 

jim

post #11 of 13
Thread Starter 

Jim,

Thanks for your interest and input.

D1

post #12 of 13

david,

 

here are 2 posts from back in 2011 that helps to explain the importance of starting inside the boot with ankle joint as your most important fore/aft adjustment. the thread is titled "how to match ankle dorsiflection to boot forward lean?" the guy that was the OP had ankle ROM that was in the normal range. 

 

jim

 

ankle ROM is the critical element in boot fitting and boot set-up. good news for you, with 14 degrees of ankle ROM, yours is in the average or normal range.

 

if it was limited, low, or locked, you may need to make adjustments to your set-up, like ramp angle, forward lean, flexibility, shell height modification, footbed, alignment, external shell lifts or binding delta change, booster strap, tongue shim, etc.........

 

if was high, excessive, or gumby like, you may need to make adjustments to your set-up, like ramp angle, forward lean, flexibility, shell height modification, footbed, alignment, external shell lifts or binding delta change, booster strap, tongue shim, etc.........

 

if it is normal like yours, you may need to make adjustments to your set-up, like ramp angle, forward lean, flexibility, shell height modification, footbed, alignment, external shell lifts or binding delta change, booster strap, tongue shim, etc.........

 

a boot fitter that has talents in alignment and balance will guide you through the set-up of your boots. or you can get a guided exploration with awesome on hill coaching like Chris Fellows, with NASTC, or Bud Heishman, with Synergy Camps, or you can do all the work yourself with exploration on the mountain with shims and lifts.

 

jim

 

 

one thing i forgot to mention is that all your boot set-up has to do is allow for enough movement in the ankle to be able to re-center your hips over your feet.

 

with proper boot set-up, this can be accomplished over the entire range of human ankle ROM. blocked to sloppy, you just need to adapt the boots characteristics to allow for that subtle balancing movement. how much is enough, is absolutely as individual as snowflakes.

 

jim

post #13 of 13
Thread Starter 

Jim,

I came across that post as I did my due diligence before posting and appreciate you bringing it back to life for the benefit of others. Yesterday I spent some quality time on the phone with Mike Tambling (above) who was extremely generous with his time and knowledge. With some measurements, we determined that the forward lean I am dealing with, even with the 3mm toe riser is about 65 degrees. While we talked about potential adjustments, it all seemed rather involved for a pair of boots that had more than 100 days on them. I have decided to start fresh with a pair of Lange RX130 which are reported to have a more upright stance out of the box. If changes to them need to be made, I can be a bit more systematic.

Again, most obliged for all you do here.

David

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