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What Skill Level

post #1 of 19
Thread Starter 

I realize there is (and should be) overlap, but how would you sort this list from least skilled to most skilled?

 

1.  Comfortable and confident on all blue square and easier black diamond terrain, including moderate moguls and ungroomed snow.

2.  Can modify your technique and tactics from a growing quiver of options, linking dynamic carved turns with consistent rhythm on blue groomed terrain.

3.  Usually ski parallel, with effective pole use. 

4.  Ski with confidence and flair, with offensive tactics and techniques on most terrain.

5.  Can carve arc-to-arc turns on easier groomed runs.

6.  Can handle moderate mogul runs with consistent speed and rhythm.

7.  Competent, if not always confident, in moderate ungroomed conditions

8.  Can handle all but the most extreme in-bounds terrain. 

post #2 of 19
3, 5, 2, 1, 7,6 ,8 ,4

A guess.
post #3 of 19

That's going to be difficult to do.

 

Some of these are terrain-defined (can "handle"...).  

Some depend on self-perception of confidence & comfort (I've known confident and comfortable people who misjudge their abilities).  

Others describe specific skills (which may be misperceived when self evaluation is involved - see the pass rates on Level III exams thread).

Some use terms whose meanings have been debated at length here on Epic ("offensive," "dynamic," "carve").

 

Building a hierarchy with this list will involve comparing apples to frying pans!  ... but it might be fun anyway. 

 

I'd put 3 first, 4 last, just like sibhusky did.

post #4 of 19
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post
 

That's going to be difficult to do.

 

Some of these are terrain-defined (can "handle"...).  

Some depend on self-perception of confidence & comfort (I've known confident and comfortable people who misjudge their abilities).  

Others describe specific skills (which may be misperceived when self evaluation is involved - see the pass rates on Level III exams thread).

Some use terms whose meanings have been debated at length here on Epic ("offensive," "dynamic," "carve").

 

Building a hierarchy with this list will involve comparing apples to frying pans!  ... but it might be fun anyway. 

 

I'd put 3 first, 4 last, just like sibhusky did.

Lots of truth to what you say which is why I said there is "overlap"  

 

FWIW, this came from descriptions of different levels of skiers (with each level having more than 1 of my above numbered sentences).  I posted because I thought a few seemed out of place for the level described (relative to the other levels).  

post #5 of 19
Yeah, I was wondering if they were all from the same level, frankly.
post #6 of 19
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

Yeah, I was wondering if they were all from the same level, frankly.

Not all the same level...how would you divide them up (or not)?

post #7 of 19
Already spent time ranking them!
post #8 of 19
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

Already spent time ranking them!

Thanks for that...I meant more of the collective epic you than you specifically.

post #9 of 19

My answer would be I wouldn't want to order this list as it is currently worded.

Who reads it, who assigns people to the levels, and for what purpose is the assignment used? 

Knowing that might help decide how to re-word these things using more parallel structure (all terrain-related; or all skills-related; adding caution, comfort, and confident if the list is for self-assessment). There are many lists out there that are better written than this one.

But I'm game, so here goes....

 

 

Usually ski parallel, with effective pole use. this one needs to come first since it implies wedges might creep into skiing, and since it makes pole use seem new to the skier

 

Competent, if not always confident, in moderate ungroomed conditions this might precede the next two; but boy there's a big gap between this and the one above it

Comfortable and confident on all blue square and easier black diamond terrain, including moderate moguls and ungroomed snow. mentions "confidence," so probably would follow the one above 

Can handle moderate mogul runs with consistent speed and rhythm. seems to duplicate the one above it

 

?.Can carve arc-to-arc turns on easier groomed runs  who knows??? these turns are not an absolute prerequisite for off-piste skiing especially if contemporary fat skis are used; nor the reverse.

?.Can modify your technique and tactics from a growing quiver of options, linking dynamic carved turns with consistent rhythm on blue groomed terrain. can't be placed until we know what's in that growing quiver of options, but probably goes after carving arc-to-arc. 

 

Can handle all but the most extreme in-bounds terrain. this goes next to last, because it lacks "flair!"

Ski with confidence and flair, with offensive tactics and techniques on most terrain. the last one because I'm assuming "most terrain" includes out of bounds.

 

 

 


Edited by LiquidFeet - 11/7/13 at 8:15pm
post #10 of 19
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post
 

My answer would be I wouldn't want to order this list as it is currently worded.

Who reads it, who assigns people to the levels, and for what purpose is the assignment used? 

Knowing that might help decide how to re-word these things using more parallel structure (all terrain-related; or all skills-related; adding caution, comfort, and confident if the list is for self-assessment).  

But I'm game, so here goes....

 

 

1.  Usually ski parallel, with effective pole use. this one needs to come first since it implies wedges might creep into skiing, and since it makes pole use seem new to the skier

 

2.  Competent, if not always confident, in moderate ungroomed conditions this might precede the next two; but boy there's a big gap between this and the one above it

3a.  Comfortable and confident on all blue square and easier black diamond terrain, including moderate moguls and ungroomed snow. mentions "confidence," so probably would follow the one above 

3b. Can handle moderate mogul runs with consistent speed and rhythm. seems to duplicate the one above it

 

?.  Can carve arc-to-arc turns on easier groomed runs  who knows??? these turns are not an absolute prerequisite for off-piste skiing especially if fat skis are used; nor the reverse.

?.  Can modify your technique and tactics from a growing quiver of options, linking dynamic carved turns with consistent rhythm on blue groomed terrain. can't be placed until we know what's in that growing quiver of options, but probably goes after carving arc-to-arc. 

 

(next to last).  Can handle all but the most extreme in-bounds terrain. this goes next to last

(last).  Ski with confidence and flair, with offensive tactics and techniques on most terrain.  and here's the last one

 

 

 

Thanks- I think the target is for self assessment.

 

I agree with your renumbered 2 (my 7) being before your 3a (my 1) because of the fact they are confident in 1 but "not always confident" in 7.  Of course, in 7 they are "competent" while 1 only mentions "comfortable" with no mention of competency.  

 

I also agree that 2 probably shows more skill than 5 (but, like you said there is enough unknowns so that this is not absolute).

post #11 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by MEfree30 View Post
 

Thanks- I think the target is for self assessment.

 

I agree with your renumbered 2 (my 7) being before your 3a (my 1) because of the fact they are confident in 1 but "not always confident" in 7.  Of course, in 7 they are "competent" while 1 only mentions "comfortable" with no mention of competency.  

 

I also agree that 2 probably shows more skill than 5 (but, like you said there is enough unknowns so that this is not absolute).

LOL you probably should not make up your own rules when trying to self assess...you can't say "I'm a level 5 skier according to my own scale, which I think is more accurate"

post #12 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by MEfree30 View Post
 

I realize there is (and should be) overlap, but how would you sort this list from least skilled to most skilled?

 

1.  Comfortable and confident on all blue square and easier black diamond terrain, including moderate moguls and ungroomed snow.

2.  Can modify your technique and tactics from a growing quiver of options, linking dynamic carved turns with consistent rhythm on blue groomed terrain.

3.  Usually ski parallel, with effective pole use. 

4.  Ski with confidence and flair, with offensive tactics and techniques on most terrain.

5.  Can carve arc-to-arc turns on easier groomed runs.

6.  Can handle moderate mogul runs with consistent speed and rhythm.

7.  Competent, if not always confident, in moderate ungroomed conditions

8.  Can handle all but the most extreme in-bounds terrain. 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MEfree30 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post
 

That's going to be difficult to do.

 

Some of these are terrain-defined (can "handle"...).  

Some depend on self-perception of confidence & comfort (I've known confident and comfortable people who misjudge their abilities).  

Others describe specific skills (which may be misperceived when self evaluation is involved - see the pass rates on Level III exams thread).

Some use terms whose meanings have been debated at length here on Epic ("offensive," "dynamic," "carve").

 

Building a hierarchy with this list will involve comparing apples to frying pans!  ... but it might be fun anyway. 

 

I'd put 3 first, 4 last, just like sibhusky did.

Lots of truth to what you say which is why I said there is "overlap"  

 

FWIW, this came from descriptions of different levels of skiers (with each level having more than 1 of my above numbered sentences).  I posted because I thought a few seemed out of place for the level described (relative to the other levels).  


In that case, from lowest to highest:

3.  Usually ski parallel, with effective pole use.  -  depends on how you define "effective pole use" ( I don't need no schtinking pole plants)

5.  Can carve arc-to-arc turns on easier groomed runs.  depending on meaning of "carve", this may move down below "handle"

8.  Can handle all but the most extreme in-bounds terrain.   define "handle".

7.  Competent, if not always confident, in moderate ungroomed conditions (not always confident obvously comes before confident - ergo 7 before 1)

1.  Comfortable and confident on all blue square and easier black diamond terrain, including moderate moguls and ungroomed snow.  - 7 and 1 could swap down to before 4 if not exposed to ungroomed snow.

2.  Can modify your technique and tactics from a growing quiver of options, linking dynamic carved turns with consistent rhythm on blue groomed terrain.

6.  Can handle moderate mogul runs with consistent speed and rhythm.  COULD SWAP WITH 5 DEPENDING on path chosen and time spent on terrain. - again define handle.

4.  Ski with confidence and flair, with offensive tactics and techniques on most terrain.

post #13 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by MEfree30 View Post
....

Thanks- I think the target is for self assessment.

....

--If recreational skiers are going to be assessing themselves, then a terrain-based list would work.  No one is going to confuse green runs with black runs, or bumps with groomers.

 

--"Cautious," "comfortable," and "confident" are good, and sometimes signal progressing skill levels.  You could use them, but realize that they may be misleading (i.e., there are many confident twist-and-skidders skiing fast.)

 

--"Able to make consistent short turns straight down the trail in a narrow corridor, and able to make long round turns across the same slope" might help identify ownership of variable turn mechanics without naming them.  

 

--You can also separate how they ski bumps: i.e., skis in a non-stop narrow corridor straight down the bump field, or meanders through the bumps with some stops.  You could do something similar for freshly fallen snow, cut-up powder, ice, and heavy wet spring slush.

 

--But the best and most useful lists are very simple and don't go into this much detail.  People sort themselves out how they want to see themselves; instructors deal with what they get.

 

--I'd leave out any mention of the following words, as recreational skiers commonly misapply them:

dynamic

carve

arc-to-arc

flair

offensive tactics

quiver of options

consistent rhythm

effective pole use 


Edited by LiquidFeet - 11/8/13 at 6:28am
post #14 of 19
These seem to have come from some site. What is the answer from wherever you got them from?
post #15 of 19
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

These seem to have come from some site. What is the answer from wherever you got them from?

They didn't have them numbered, and I made some edits, but they basically had 1-3 as a level 7 and 4-8 for a level 8 skier.

post #16 of 19

That explains why I thought they all might apply to me, as I always say I'm a 7.5...

post #17 of 19

That's why they include an assortment of descriptions for each level, one alone can easily be interpreted differently, but if you have several, it's easier to go with a preponderance of the evidence.

post #18 of 19
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
 

That's why they include an assortment of descriptions for each level, one alone can easily be interpreted differently, but if you have several, it's easier to go with a preponderance of the evidence.

I think it also might help students have some uncertainty as to what level they belong in which makes it easier for Instructors to shift them to the correct group.

post #19 of 19

if this was a PSIA style exam the easiest way of judging your ability as a coach would be to actually watch someone ski.....

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