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Ski boot fitting and the power strap? - Page 2

post #31 of 46

I still don't get it. 

What do I need an aftermarket strap for?

My boots came with a stock strap; it's attached to the liners, and for the velcro to be accessible it is done up on the liner, not the shell.

IMG_0043.jpg

 

Furthermore there isn't and room between my calf and the back, nor between my shin and the tongue.  My shin does not move a micron without the shell moving.

 

12-11-11_2243.jpg

My procedure is to do up the strap as tight as possible, and the top buckle loosely, then flex to get the heel set, then do up the bottom two buckles, then tighten the strap some more, then do up the top two buckles.

 

PS, non of the adjustments are usefull any more; the liner is rock hard and allows no movement.

post #32 of 46

^You have the old school first-generation power strap that doesn't interface with the shell; all current* power straps hook onto or are screwed into the spine.

 

 

 

 

*all right not quite all, some ZipFit liners come with straps that don't do that.

post #33 of 46

The Booster Strap was designed by the inventor to be placed over the tongue & behind the shell if the shell goes up that high.

 

You lose almost all advantage of the elasticity and rebound of the Booster strap by placing it outside the shell. The only advantage over a Stock strap that the Booster has when placed outside the shell,  is the ability to pull it much tighter than a stock strap due to the ratchet cam closure mechanism.

 

I ONLY ski with mine between the tongue and the shell and I believe it provides more flex and more progressive flex and rebound than a Booster outside or a stock strap inside or outside.

 

I have been using them for many, many years, as far back as I can remember.

post #34 of 46

Thanks for the explanation.  I can see how it works now.   Still ain't trading in my my stock strap and Koflach 911s  for high speed full tilt kamikaze skiing though.

post #35 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotsSkier View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post
 

The stretchable Booster Strap stretches, until it stops stretching.  So it gives your boots' flex a more progressive feel.  Theoretically.

If you put it on the outside you look cool; if you hide it on the inside, you get the performance benefit.

 

looks like Ms Gut, in common with most of the WCuppers,  is prepared to sacrifice performance to look cool??

 

 

Chances are those boots are cut and the strap is sitting outside the suit but on the liner....

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post
 

You are all assuming above, of course, that she has only *one* set of Booster Straps? 

 

Considering the level of customization of plastic and shapes of WCers boots I highly doubt that she would ever "need" two. Also, the WC strap is 3 bands sawn together there's no give in it.
And since speed boots are softer than SL boots I don't see why wearing 2 would be a benefit...

Unless you are suggesting she is wearing an extra one for marketing, but even that wouldn't make much sense as you can easily have one strap exposed outside/over the suit.

post #36 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by jzamp View Post
 
 

Unless you are suggesting she is wearing an extra one for marketing, but even that wouldn't make much sense as you can easily have one strap exposed outside/over the suit.

 

I was using bathos to amplify  ScotsSkier's theme of "get thee away from herdthink" and hoping to tempt someone to do the search engine legwork to find the Epic thread in which we did talk about Bode's 2-strap setup.
 

All other implications and readings were to be taken as of tertiary importance at best.  

post #37 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by jzamp View Post
 

 

Chances are those boots are cut and the strap is sitting outside the suit but on the liner....

 

 

Exactly.  Just because you can see the Booster strap doesn't necessarily mean that it's sitting over the top of the shell.  Head Raptors have a line embossed on the shell to show you where to trim down the front of the cuff for "tuning" purposes.  This is only about a 1/4" of plastic and once removed the Booster rides directly on top of the liner tongue.

 

Ghost - put a Booster on those old Koflachs.  I promise you that you'll experience a huge boost in boot performance by having the Booster provide a direct connection to the spine of your boot.  Although if the plastic is old enough it may also result in the spine cracking! :eek:)

post #38 of 46

Did someone mention not following the heard?

 

I cut my straps completely off:duck:

 

Really, I don't like the tops of my boots super tight.  I use a lot of ankle and feet squeezing while I ski.  I hate the feeling like my feet are in casts locked to the skis from mid calf down.  I suspect my inner tele is screaming to get out:o

 

It is also probably a hangover from always having boots way too big when I was a kid.  Worst part about the straps though for me is walking from the car to the base and back.  I like the boots totally loose when doing that and the straps are just a nuisance flopping around.   Yes, I did try just attaching the velcro really loose.  Just too much of  PITA for a feature that does me zero benefit skiing so I cut the suckers off and don't miss them:yahoo: 

post #39 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post
 

Did someone mention not following the heard?

 

I cut my straps completely off:duck:

 

Really, I don't like the tops of my boots super tight.  I use a lot of ankle and feet squeezing while I ski.  I hate the feeling like my feet are in casts locked to the skis from mid calf down.  I suspect my inner tele is screaming to get out:o

 

It is also probably a hangover from always having boots way too big when I was a kid.  Worst part about the straps though for me is walking from the car to the base and back.  I like the boots totally loose when doing that and the straps are just a nuisance flopping around.   Yes, I did try just attaching the velcro really loose.  Just too much of  PITA for a feature that does me zero benefit skiing so I cut the suckers off and don't miss them:yahoo: 

 

Booster straps (or stock velcro power strap) = zero benefit to skiing? What? Going from stock to boosters gave me a huge improvement in feel/response and reduced shinbang from jumping.

post #40 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post
 

The stretchable Booster Strap stretches, until it stops stretching.  So it gives your boots' flex a more progressive feel.  Theoretically.

If you put it on the outside you look cool; if you hide it on the inside, you get the performance benefit.


 Um, you get performance with it outside as well. Sure Bode looks cool in this picture, but it isn't the Booster strap that's doing it.

 

http://www.theskichannel.com/athletes/bode-miller/

 

Edit: I guess I'm 'piling on' as well as 'asking for it' as I posted this before finishing reading the thread. I have now seen the remarks about Head boots (I think that the cuff of the boot is visible above the strap in this picture).

 

I ski with mine outside of the shell. It does make a difference to me. admittedly I haven't tried skiing with them inside. I like the totally integrated feel of the shell and the liner being engaged at all times. I like that I don't need to crush my ankle and calf with the buckles and still have constant contact with the boot system. I'm using the two elastic strap.

post #41 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
 

Thanks for the explanation.  I can see how it works now.   Still ain't trading in my my stock strap and Koflach 911s  for high speed full tilt kamikaze skiing though.

 

 

Well, at 92mph on 172's and icy bumps, you've got bigger fish to fry! :)

 

 

To everyone else, we don't know where the top of the shell cuff is cut in the WC pictures. My own boots have a 'cut' line that once cut, would give the appearance of a Booster strap on the exterior of the shell. For fun, I'll ask the local Head rep. what their athletes do. He actually knows this stuff. I'm an inside guy myself.

post #42 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post
 

Did someone mention not following the heard?

 

I cut my straps completely off:duck:

 

Really, I don't like the tops of my boots super tight.  I use a lot of ankle and feet squeezing while I ski.  I hate the feeling like my feet are in casts locked to the skis from mid calf down.  I suspect my inner tele is screaming to get out:o

 

It is also probably a hangover from always having boots way too big when I was a kid.  Worst part about the straps though for me is walking from the car to the base and back.  I like the boots totally loose when doing that and the straps are just a nuisance flopping around.   Yes, I did try just attaching the velcro really loose.  Just too much of  PITA for a feature that does me zero benefit skiing so I cut the suckers off and don't miss them:yahoo: 

 

Agreed. That is why I like the Booster. I don't have to rely on the boot plastic to move to get flex. There is sufficient give in the Booster (for me) that I am able to flex the boot through the power strap, before I get to having to bend plastic.
post #43 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post
 

The Booster Strap was designed by the inventor to be placed over the tongue & behind the shell if the shell goes up that high.

 

You lose almost all advantage of the elasticity and rebound of the Booster strap by placing it outside the shell. The only advantage over a Stock strap that the Booster has when placed outside the shell,  is the ability to pull it much tighter than a stock strap due to the ratchet cam closure mechanism.

 

I ONLY ski with mine between the tongue and the shell and I believe it provides more flex and more progressive flex and rebound than a Booster outside or a stock strap inside or outside.

 

I have been using them for many, many years, as far back as I can remember.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noodler View Post
 

 

Exactly.  Just because you can see the Booster strap doesn't necessarily mean that it's sitting over the top of the shell.  Head Raptors have a line embossed on the shell to show you where to trim down the front of the cuff for "tuning" purposes.  This is only about a 1/4" of plastic and once removed the Booster rides directly on top of the liner tongue.

 

Ghost - put a Booster on those old Koflachs.  I promise you that you'll experience a huge boost in boot performance by having the Booster provide a direct connection to the spine of your boot.  Although if the plastic is old enough it may also result in the spine cracking! :eek:)


^ these

 

A few years back Bode talked about the booster strap application in some article which caught my eye…and I have no inclination to find it now.  Suffice it to say while he is dead set against cutting away PU (stiffness) he does call for top of shell “perch” for the booster to best contact the tongue. 

 

Simply, and per design, the booster strap is minimizing the transmission gap that occurs from shin to tongue to shell.  That is, a greater gap (including our leg soft tissue and boot tongue material) that exists between shin and PU shell is simply a loss of command and control.

 

World Cup athletes and their mechanics rely primarily on PU, not elastic bands, to stiffen.  What you do not see is use of additional integrated/bolted shin plates if needed per athlete.  In fact, adding the booster IS more endorsement than performance for these pros IF used outside of shell.  Certainly it’s not hurting anything outside the shell and will add to stiffening the boot in as a entire unit while not fully maximizing performance as intended. 

 

All that said, you can wear the booster strap as a necklace for all I care.  Might even look pretty Euro cool :cool  (who here will be the first?) :D

 

But make no mistake, anything less than full on contact with the boot tongue lessens the “performance” measure of this product.

post #44 of 46

With all respect to the designer and other posters, the product works pretty darn well when used *not* according to design; design specification being on the tongue not on the shell. When I need more control, I tighten the Booster first, not upper buckles. The Booster will at times make my top buckle ineffective (remove the tension in the cuff required to hold the buckle closed) and I won't notice, but if I have my top buckle done up properly and forget my Booster, I'll know. To be honest, I don't know if the elastic is actually capable of stretching when I have the Booster done up, but the Booster outside the shell is providing the integration of boot to body that I desire and enjoy.

 

I think this is a case where a product has been used outside design specifications (pun unintended) and has been extremely successful. I know that if my Booster were replaced by the standard power strap, I'd experience a decline in performance. The primary advantage I see to Booster over Velcro closure power straps is that the closure is absolute and easily micro-adjusted with Booster. My experience with Velcro power straps is that they can open when the Velcro is iced or simply worn out. Not so with Booster. It doesn't loosen or come undone until you press the lever to release it.

 

FWIW, I replaced the Nordica SpeedMachine 14 power strap with a Booster. The original power strap was designed to go outside the shell. Short of cutting plastic, there would be no way to have it outside over the spine and inside over the tongue. I wouldn't consider cutting the shell to put the strap on the tongue instead of around the entire shell as the plastic is essential to the stiffness of the boot. I agree with Don and others that the Booster is not making the boot stiffer, but it is allowing the boots stiffness to be engaged without delay/slop.

post #45 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonDenver View Post
 

 

 


 

All that said, you can wear the booster strap as a necklace for all I care.  Might even look pretty Euro cool :cool  (who here will be the first?) :D

 

Actually, it would make a pretty sweet headband, what with the argyle and zebra patterns now. But the hair would get caught in the latch, ouch.

post #46 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post
 

The stretchable Booster Strap stretches, until it stops stretching.  So it gives your boots' flex a more progressive feel.  Theoretically.

If you put it on the outside you look cool; if you hide it on the inside, you get the performance benefit.

 

I ski with Salomon Quest 12s. which have a wide stretchable power strap built-in in lieu of the top buckle.  Allows forward flex, but then pushes back.  My daugthter has booster straps on her boots that go across the liner tongue.  The result seems similar.

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