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Introducing kids to ski poles....where to start? - Page 2

post #31 of 41
Aren't we talking kids here?
post #32 of 41
Thread Starter 

Black Diamond death wedgers do just fine in bumps without poles.

They are low and very flexible.

Once kids figure out that their parents won't follow them into the bumps they just love bumps.

That's where grandpa comes in.

This guy didn't didn't want to use poles after he tried them in bumps because they inhibit rotation turns.

We are over that now.

AppleMark

post #33 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques View Post
 

Originally Posted by Jacques View Post
Seems the trend is toward no poles.  I lost mine four years ago.  Never looked back.  Best thing I ever did.  I know a few folks who have had their teeth knocked out with them.

 

Did I mention I'm no instructor!  :ski  Really though I see more and more folks without every year.  I took my wife's away and she is doing better than ever!   She then took her girlfriends away and the same result.

It is a small trend.  I forgot poles one cold hard chalky frontside day out, too lazy to waste time going back, I just skied sans poles, I rarely ever planted while carving up the hard stuff anyway.

 

What an eye opener, I found myself edging and releasing the same way, but I had to balance completely all the time.  My poles were a crutch.  

 

I too never looked back, and hit everywhere with no regrets.  Last year the only time I had poles was for a big hike and then put them in the pack to ski a big mountain shot.

 

While I cannot do those machine gun mogul turns without poles, that never was a skill I desired to learn.  Otherwise there is no skiing situation where I ever need them, trees and cliffs included.

 

But there are a handful of other skiers who were inspired by seeing me on a zipperline through major bumps under the chair who have forsaken theirs.  Children who want to look grown up see this and yes they lose that urge.

 

I don't know why the old guard insists that proper turns require a proper pole plant, if you own your edges and can switch directions at will, you don't need a crutch, and maybe pole plants either.

post #34 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidFeet View Post
 

 

I've made the same observation and felt the same surprise.  I cannot understand why it is so very difficult to position the palm of the hand on the top of the grip and push, using the pole for propelling or balancing or whatever.  Anyone out there have a theory of why this is so difficult for beginners, both adults and kids?

 

I've pretty much given up using poles with never-ever adults.  Unless I decide to do bullfighter turns early on in the lesson.  Which I think I'm going to stop doing.  

A long time ago there was an inventer here who made pole grips with a platform that goes on top of the pole and the palms down plants as he sees the human body was meant to do.  There was an elastic strap over the back of the hand with finger grooves on the leading edge of the platform.

 

EVERYBODY laughed at him.  He didn't necessarily ski, he would stand at the top of the intimidating mogul run and proceed to helicopter to the top of every bump and pivot one footed leaping into another heli onto the second or third bump down.

 

He was breathtaking to see but I don't remember seeing him ever make a turn with edges.  He did have a few ballet skiers who bought his handles but otherwise the platform grip never caught on.

post #35 of 41

A couple ski instructors who were working with my 6-year-old son last year told me he should use poles because it would give him something to think about holding in front of him, thus helping to keep his hands out front. He tried skiing with poles multiple times but I think he found it distracting and he usually wanted to give the poles to me to hold for him after a few runs.

post #36 of 41
Yeah just take them away. He might prefer holding snowballs or something.
post #37 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthias99 View Post

While I will not dispute that they are generally very helpful, they are far from necessary.  I've seen high-end PSIA types shred horrible icy Eastern bumps with no poles.  Wish I could find some good video...

Necessary for most, although I don't doubt what you state. It is extremely difficult to ski bumps without a well developed shortswing turn which requires a poleplant. That is if one skis fall line, with large radius turns a pole plant is not needed but can be helpful. Small turns are a different story.
post #38 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimidee33 View Post


Necessary for most, although I don't doubt what you state. It is extremely difficult to ski bumps without a well developed shortswing turn which requires a poleplant. That is if one skis fall line, with large radius turns a pole plant is not needed but can be helpful. Small turns are a different story.

 

Pole plants are not required for short swing turns.  They do make them easier though.

post #39 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by tetonpwdrjunkie View Post
 

 

Pole plants are not required for short swing turns.  They do make them easier though.

They make it much easier. And I noted they are not required for some. But they create better timing and block upper body rotation providing countering which creates turning force; think of a spring twisting then returning to it's original position. Pole plants also do more than this of course. This is what your muscles do when stretched. Almost all really good bump skiers employ a pole plant. Just watch the Johnny Mosley types. i say this as a very competent mogul skier and long time ski teacher.

 

Now, as to children using poles. I believe they are ready when they become parallel on skis. It is really that simple even if they only use them to get around on the flats and hold them the rest of the time initially. Pole plant drills can be introduced as necessary. There are many drills that can be helpful when learning pole use.

 

On another note, one does not really "plant" the pole. It is a touch only. Moreover, the movement to a pole touch is in the wrist. A flick is sufficient and should not involve the upper arm generally. Keep the hands wide and in front, touch the tip to the snow and as your feet pass the point where the tip of the pole is located on the snow it will come up of it's own accord. In other words, be a minimalist and keep your hands and thus your upper body quite. 

 

Touch the left tip for turns to the left and right tip for turns to the right. 

post #40 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimidee33 View Post
 

They make it much easier. And I noted they are not required for some. But they create better timing and block upper body rotation providing countering which creates turning force; think of a spring twisting then returning to it's original position. Pole plants also do more than this of course. This is what your muscles do when stretched. Almost all really good bump skiers employ a pole plant. Just watch the Johnny Mosley types. i say this as a very competent mogul skier and long time ski teacher.

 

Now, as to children using poles. I believe they are ready when they become parallel on skis. It is really that simple even if they only use them to get around on the flats and hold them the rest of the time initially. Pole plant drills can be introduced as necessary. There are many drills that can be helpful when learning pole use.

 

On another note, one does not really "plant" the pole. It is a touch only. Moreover, the movement to a pole touch is in the wrist. A flick is sufficient and should not involve the upper arm generally. Keep the hands wide and in front, touch the tip to the snow and as your feet pass the point where the tip of the pole is located on the snow it will come up of it's own accord. In other words, be a minimalist and keep your hands and thus your upper body quite. 

 

Touch the left tip for turns to the left and right tip for turns to the right. 

 

I agree with the bulk of this post.  However I differentiate between the blocking pole plant you describe in your first paragraph and the flowing pole plant you describe in your third paragraph.  Two valid and different applications of pole usage.  

 

I say this a s a pretty competent big mountain skier and an instructor who has logged several thousand hours of teaching and training after being a local ski bum type for 15 years. ;) 

 

I already stated my position on kids and poles up thread.  Hint...  It's not as simple as parallel or matching skis.  Although that is a  pretty decent indicator.

post #41 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by tetonpwdrjunkie View Post
 

 

I agree with the bulk of this post.  However I differentiate between the blocking pole plant you describe in your first paragraph and the flowing pole plant you describe in your third paragraph.  Two valid and different applications of pole usage.  

 

I say this a s a pretty competent big mountain skier and an instructor who has logged several thousand hours of teaching and training after being a local ski bum type for 15 years. ;) 

 

I already stated my position on kids and poles up thread.  Hint...  It's not as simple as parallel or matching skis.  Although that is a  pretty decent indicator.

True, both types of pole plants are very different and for different types of turns. But the quiet upper body and wrist movement for the pole plant apply across all types of terrain and snow conditions, with an exception here and there. ( Such as really deep heavy powder, then one may need to lift the arm free of the snow when planting.) Nothing is ever as simple as it seems. Thanks for the reply!

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