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Race Ski Base Inserts

post #1 of 19
Thread Starter 

In the near past I only recall Atomic using base inserts along the edges in their fis athlete race skis, but lately I am starting to see them being used on other brands like Head and Volkl, on both athelete and consumer fis skis.

 

Does anyone know of any other brands that are doing this on their consumer fis race stocks?  athlete skis?

 

I started work on a pair of Volkl's today (fis sl and gs) for a masters racer.  First time I've seen strips on a Volkl that I can recall.  I love working on them anyways - 0 and 0 out of the box, with a mirror grind ready for final imprint.:yahoo:

post #2 of 19
Sorry, pretty ignorant. What's a base insert?
post #3 of 19
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

Sorry, pretty ignorant. What's a base insert?

No worries, theres not much info online about them.  The manufacturer's are pretty hush hush about it as well.  Most of I know is from word of mouth.

 

From Tognar's website - 

 

Quote:
 Some Atomic alpine race skis feature narrow strips of ceramic base material inlaid along the steel edges. This is done to help avoid base burn, since ceramic is harder and more durable than p-tex.
You can tune, patch and wax these areas just as you do the rest of your base without a problem.
 
post #4 of 19
Why not totally replace the p-tex with it, then?
post #5 of 19

Here is what he is taking about.  Some may have been made thinner, but here is what I have.  The ceramic impregnated base is grey in color on these.
 

 

post #6 of 19

   Yup...I've only seen it on the same brands. Love that Volkls (fis) are 0/0 and have been for the last couple of years. Thumbs Up

 

  zenny

post #7 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by zentune View Post
 

   Yup...I've only seen it on the same brands. Love that Volkls (fis) are 0/0 and have been for the last couple of years. Thumbs Up

 

  zenny


Oh the joy of virgin edges!  I wish!  I wish!  I wish!  ;)

post #8 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques View Post
 


Oh the joy of virgin edges!  I wish!  I wish!  I wish!  ;)

 

 

   Funny. About five or so years ago the US Volkl rep was in town at the local shop and he asked me what I thought and if I had any suggestions, and that was one of them. Now, I'm not saying it was me, but he did say that he had had several such requests.....

 

   zenny

post #9 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by zentune View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques View Post
 


Oh the joy of virgin edges!  I wish!  I wish!  I wish!  ;)

 

 

   Funny. About five or so years ago the US Volkl rep was in town at the local shop and he asked me what I thought and if I had any suggestions, and that was one of them. Now, I'm not saying it was me, but he did say that he had had several such requests.....

 

   zenny


For a "race" ski it should be for sure!   Too bad consumer skis did not have that option.  Then again one can always buy DPS, or is that DSP!  :rolleyes

post #10 of 19

I would say pretty much every World cup race ski has them, not just Atomic, Head and Volkl. Fischer is using them for some 5, 6 years at least, and Elan as well. Few years back non-WC Fischer skis (still RD skis) didn't have them, while skis for World cup racers had them, but I have no idea how is at the moment for non-WC race skis.

Normally it's not really ceramic and god knows what else, but just "harder" version ptex, which is of course slower then "normal" one used for most of base, but it's more resistant to high temperature created "sliding" down injected snow at 100km/h. You can't really see difference between insert and "normal" ptex on base when looking at skis, but when waxing, you can see some 5mm wide insert on sides (like on photo Jacques attached) between edge and "normal" ptex.

post #11 of 19

New stuff to me.

The inserts Jacques shows are right where my skis always base burn.

My guess it the polyethylene base material has some ceramic filler (like alumina) added in the compounding step before sintering.

That would make the plastic harder and tougher which should resist the abrasive attack we call base burn.

I would expect that this base formulation is not quite as fast as pure polyethylene so they don't use it all over the base.

The ceramic loaded formulation would still absorb wax since the wax largely resides in the porosity between the sintered polyethylene particles.

That's my guess until some more facts show up.

post #12 of 19

Interesting stuff

post #13 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by dakine View Post
 

New stuff to me.

The inserts Jacques shows are right where my skis always base burn.

My guess it the polyethylene base material has some ceramic filler (like alumina) added in the compounding step before sintering.

That would make the plastic harder and tougher which should resist the abrasive attack we call base burn.

I would expect that this base formulation is not quite as fast as pure polyethylene so they don't use it all over the base.

The ceramic loaded formulation would still absorb wax since the wax largely resides in the porosity between the sintered polyethylene particles.

That's my guess until some more facts show up.


Hard for me to say these Atomic Arc Ambition's are slower on the ceramic part.  I can tell you that I can't tell.  They do haul the mail and glide very well.  With a 13 meter turn I do love them. 

post #14 of 19

My old Atomic R11 Beta-Puls  mid fats  (for the time) had them

post #15 of 19

Atomicman, I like this.  The Older I Get, The Faster I Was!

post #16 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques View Post
 

Atomicman, I like this.  The Older I Get, The Faster I Was!

I'd like it better if it wasn't TRUE!:D

post #17 of 19

I ordered some Volkl Race Tigers non-FIS, do they have the race base? I will have to look now that I have read this.

 

The Older I Get, The Faster I Was!

Some times on the chair we get to hear some good bragging about how fast and good some one is, the guy I ski the most with just tells them we are old and don't ski very fast any more, it is funny how many of these fast young ones are still working their way down as we slow old guys are riding up the chair. Telling them we have slowed down is true, we make a lot more turns and don't get all the big air we did as kids.

I got a shirt at Alta that says " you don't give up skiing because your old, you get old because you give up skiing".

post #18 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomfifield View Post
 

I ordered some Volkl Race Tigers non-FIS, do they have the race base? I will have to look now that I have read this.

 

The Older I Get, The Faster I Was!

Some times on the chair we get to hear some good bragging about how fast and good some one is, the guy I ski the most with just tells them we are old and don't ski very fast any more, it is funny how many of these fast young ones are still working their way down as we slow old guys are riding up the chair. Telling them we have slowed down is true, we make a lot more turns and don't get all the big air we did as kids.

I got a shirt at Alta that says " you don't give up skiing because your old, you get old because you give up skiing".


I like to use my age and injuries for an excuse! 

 

 

jacques 002.BMP

 

jacques 001.BMP

post #19 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by primoz View Post

I would say pretty much every World cup race ski has them, not just Atomic, Head and Volkl. Fischer is using them for some 5, 6 years at least, and Elan as well. Few years back non-WC Fischer skis (still RD skis) didn't have them, while skis for World cup racers had them, but I have no idea how is at the moment for non-WC race skis.
Normally it's not really ceramic and god knows what else, but just "harder" version ptex, which is of course slower then "normal" one used for most of base, but it's more resistant to high temperature created "sliding" down injected snow at 100km/h. You can't really see difference between insert and "normal" ptex on base when looking at skis, but when waxing, you can see some 5mm wide insert on sides (like on photo Jacques attached) between edge and "normal" ptex.

This! They are not immediately apparent but all the top end Rossi/dynasatars have it as well. Also known as "cold edge"
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