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Amateur Tuner

post #1 of 21
Thread Starter 
I have just been given the entire role of tuning my race skis this year. I know the basics but I have several questions. For example, we don't have that much money...will it really effect my skiing if I don't get a preseason base grind?
post #2 of 21
That depends on their current condition. Are they brand new? Have you checked their flatness against a true bar? If they are fine, then just do lots and lots and lots of waxing. If they are older, though, how is the structure? If it doesn't look fresh, especially among the half inch along the edges, then get a light grind to restore it.
post #3 of 21

/\/\/\/\ What she said.

 

Is it possible to post pictures of the skis?  Specifically the base, showing any possible damage.

post #4 of 21
Nah. Unless you race FIS or the skis are messed up or railed underfoot (edge high), don't bother with a base grind. You can freshen the base with sandpaper 150 and 200, then brush a lot with brass and fibertex. Or just get a steel brush. Again, if you don't race FIS, don't bother hot boxing or waxing a ton... Get some Hertel SuperSauce and have fun. Ski them a lot - that makes them faster wink.gif

Many of them have kids doing them base grinds and it's not necessarily better than not doing it...
post #5 of 21

Yo 1998!

 

It's the 2013-14 season. So to get you up to date I moved your thread into the tuning forum. Who knew?

post #6 of 21

If you cant find the money for a pre season base grind you will be in trouble. This sport is quite expensive. On the other hand, you might not need a base grind. Depends on the skis. If they are feeling ok out on the snow then everything should be ok. If you want to cut down on costs dont skip waxing. That is your single most effective way of not having to make a base grind. After every skiing session use hotwax. Use for example inexpensive red soft bulk wax by Volant for training. For important racing you can use more expensive wax.

post #7 of 21

   What other questions did you have race 1998?

 

 

    zenny

post #8 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6 View Post

If you cant find the money for a pre season base grind you will be in trouble. This sport is quite expensive. On the other hand, you might not need a base grind.
well, i cannot afford more than 2-3 stone grinds per season - between me and kids, we have 15 or so race skis used regularly. So I spend the moneys on beer and tools and do them by hand... Here's where I documented what I do: http://www.racerkidz.com/wiki/Blog:Razie_Ski_Blog/Post:Getting_a_flat_ski_base and http://www.racerkidz.com/wiki/Blog:Razie_Ski_Blog/Post:Ski_Base_Articles

Plus, last time I got them back wavy and gouged, more reasons to spend on beer and tools instead!

Cheers,
Razie
post #9 of 21
You need to find a new shop.

You only need a base grind if the skis aren't flat or the structure is fading, and maybe not even then. Let's assume you and three kids ski in total 200 days a season. That averages out to 13 days per ski. Which should get you about two seasons per ski, highly subject to conditions. Which means you should expect 7.5 grinds a year, which might justify getting a riller and doing it yourself. Whether that's true or not depends on your math, .. and conditions.

Easier to look at the base of the particular ski and decide.
post #10 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by race1998 View Post

I have just been given the entire role of tuning my race skis this year. I know the basics but I have several questions. For example, we don't have that much money...will it really effect my skiing if I don't get a preseason base grind?


Many here have picked on me about this, but it does work for me.  It's a long video and you need to watch and listen to the whole thing.  Razie has really good info from above too.

post #11 of 21
@race1998, this bit in your articles about oxidizing bases? Way overstated. There's no problem with leaving your skis sit over night without wax on. Where did you get that? I just started working on my skis two days ago. No storage wax for the summer, just skis that have seen frequent waxings regularly. Took off the straps, black and glossy, like I'd just finished them. I should have taken a picture.
post #12 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

@race1998, this bit in your articles about oxidizing bases? Way overstated. There's no problem with leaving your skis sit over night without wax on. Where did you get that? I just started working on my skis two days ago. No storage wax for the summer, just skis that have seen frequent waxings regularly. Took off the straps, black and glossy, like I'd just finished them. I should have taken a picture.


Husky, you might have gotten mixed up.   The blogs were from Racekidz, and mentioned by Razie.  Race1998 is the OP looking for advice.  The blogs have good info and there is no harm in rubbing on a layer of wax.  Storage wax is always a good idea.  Most high end tuners consider it mandatory to maintain a fast base.  Be good!

post #13 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

You need to find a new shop.

You only need a base grind if the skis aren't flat or the structure is fading, and maybe not even then. Let's assume you and three kids ski in total 200 days a season. That averages out to 13 days per ski. Which should get you about two seasons per ski, highly subject to conditions. Which means you should expect 7.5 grinds a year, which might justify getting a riller and doing it yourself. Whether that's true or not depends on your math, .. and conditions.

Easier to look at the base of the particular ski and decide.


I am confused now..   Above your quote this is what he said.  "2-3 stone grinds per season - between me and kids, we have 15 or so race skis used regularly."

So I am thinking out of 15 pairs, he grinds 2 or 3 pairs of those per season.

Like I said, maybe I'm confused. 

post #14 of 21
No, he said he can only afford two or three a season.

And you're right, with all the R's I got mixed up who was so.

I used to be a big believe in storage wax, too, even found where I recommended it on Epic. But my storage area is dry, so the edges are fine. After a big accident years ago where I was pretty much out of commission for months so the skis didn't get done, I noticed that it had been much ado about nothing. The skis all look fine and ready to go. No dust, no rust, glossy. Doesn't mean I'm not doing a full pre-season tune, but they were fine to go.
post #15 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

No, he said he can only afford two or three a season.

And you're right, with all the R's I got mixed up who was so.

I used to be a big believe in storage wax, too, even found where I recommended it on Epic. But my storage area is dry, so the edges are fine. After a big accident years ago where I was pretty much out of commission for months so the skis didn't get done, I noticed that it had been much ado about nothing. The skis all look fine and ready to go. No dust, no rust, glossy. Doesn't mean I'm not doing a full pre-season tune, but they were fine to go.


Anyway it's all good.  You soak your bases well, so they seem good to you.  I have seen the same thing with clients skis who did not apply storage wax, but I had boxed them up good prior and they did not ski them very much. Not like a ski that sat for a few years without storage wax.  Please don't take my comments as a diss to you at all. I really like how you said if they may not need a grind at all anyway.  Check them before you wreck them!  You are right.   Keep on keepin' on!

post #16 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques View Post


I am confused now..   Above your quote this is what he said.  "2-3 stone grinds per season - between me and kids, we have 15 or so race skis used regularly."
So I am thinking out of 15 pairs, he grinds 2 or 3 pairs of those per season.
Like I said, maybe I'm confused. 
thanks - lots of reading and experimentation went into my blog there.

Yes, that's what i meant, I only grind 2-3 pairs that look like too much work for me, usually the smaller skis that get banged a lot, at end of season.

Great video, yes I do the same - i use the Ski Visions tool instead of a burred scraper though, it has a metal blade to remove material (and edge at the same time) and a stone blade for structure. I also sometimes just use the stone blade by hand to remove a bit of material.

New skis need work too - my experience is that a new race ski needs some sanding to get really flat. It raises hairs not only on the base of the ski but also the base of my neck to take sandpaper to a thousand dollar brand new race ski, but it works.

Cheaper Consumer skis need a lot more work, i start with filing them and then sandpaper, they are more cupped than race skis. There even hard to wax since the iron glides on metal...

Cheers,
Razie
post #17 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by razie View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques View Post


I am confused now..   Above your quote this is what he said.  "2-3 stone grinds per season - between me and kids, we have 15 or so race skis used regularly."
So I am thinking out of 15 pairs, he grinds 2 or 3 pairs of those per season.
Like I said, maybe I'm confused. 
thanks - lots of reading and experimentation went into my blog there.

Yes, that's what i meant, I only grind 2-3 pairs that look like too much work for me, usually the smaller skis that get banged a lot, at end of season.

Great video, yes I do the same - i use the Ski Visions tool instead of a burred scraper though, it has a metal blade to remove material (and edge at the same time) and a stone blade for structure. I also sometimes just use the stone blade by hand to remove a bit of material.

New skis need work too - my experience is that a new race ski needs some sanding to get really flat. It raises hairs not only on the base of the ski but also the base of my neck to take sandpaper to a thousand dollar brand new race ski, but it works.

Cheaper Consumer skis need a lot more work, i start with filing them and then sandpaper, they are more cupped than race skis. There even hard to wax since the iron glides on metal...

Cheers,
Razie


Yes Razie, I have an 8 part video on tuning and base preping a new consumer ski, and many other ski waxing stuff. They are all super long, but the learning is in the talk.  I did look over your blog (Racekidz) and was very impressed with the astute knowledge there.  There are many different opinions on tuning and waxing, but you pretty much nailed it in my opinion.  One thing I noted was the third rule. Also how you listed the two types of sand paper to use on skis. Etc. etc.  Your stuff about base flatness.  I am of the school that believes a base does not NEED to be "perfect" flat.  Do take care and be good!

post #18 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

@race1998, this bit in your articles about oxidizing bases? Way overstated. There's no problem with leaving your skis sit over night without wax on. Where did you get that? I just started working on my skis two days ago. No storage wax for the summer, just skis that have seen frequent waxings regularly. Took off the straps, black and glossy, like I'd just finished them. I should have taken a picture.
I read that in so many places that seem trustworthy that I just take it for granted, it is very hard for me to assess how much less they absorb when "oxidized" that i'll just continue to believe that. In racing you're going for any 1% improvement for anything, so if the skis retain 1% more wax when not "oxidized" i'll continue to pay attention to that.

I maintain the bases regularly by brushing them before waxing, more or less and with stiffer or softer brushes, depending on how they look/feel, so mine should never get really "old". They are always saturated with wax.
post #19 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by razie View Post
 
Quote:
I read that in so many places that seem trustworthy that I just take it for granted, it is very hard for me to assess how much less they absorb when "oxidized" that i'll just continue to believe that. In racing you're going for any 1% improvement for anything, so if the skis retain 1% more wax when not "oxidized" i'll continue to pay attention to that.

I maintain the bases regularly by brushing them before waxing, more or less and with stiffer or softer brushes, depending on how they look/feel, so mine should never get really "old". They are always saturated with wax.


All true in my opinion.  Technically speaking PE does not oxidize, but that's the term that has been used for many years.  Like I say, it's more a function of drying out.  I like to tell people it's like what might happen to leather upholstery that never gets any attention with thing that moisturize the leather.  We have all seen leather get dry and crack etc.  Anyway since that's the term that is used, I use it too.  Pure trivia.  

 

As to my take on brushing, I feel skis should always be brushed out after skiing whether or not one chooses to wax them at that time or not.

 

Hopefully the OP has, or will check back in here and read your Racekidz blog because it's all good!  Race away!

post #20 of 21
Thanks,

I have to try this thing... Where do i find a carbide scraper! Home depot stuff., how thick... 3mm ?
post #21 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by razie View Post

Thanks,

I have to try this thing... Where do i find a carbide scraper! Home depot stuff., how thick... 3mm ?


I got my carbon steel scraper from The Race Place in Bend, OR.  Last time I went there they only had the stainless steel. 

Here is a really good one.  It's thicker so it won't flex.  http://www.race-werks.com/svst-4mm-steel-base-scraper/

I like the thinner scraper because it is easier to sharpen, but this one would be really good.  I have some scrapers that I had a sheet metal place make for me.  4 x 8 & 14 I think.  1/8th thick stainless.  I did those for super fat skis and boards.  Anyway, for 25 bucks it will last you a lifetime.

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