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A quirky question for the ski and binding experts here....

post #1 of 14
Thread Starter 
So after many years of doing the demo routine and hesitating to purchase wide skis, I decided to take a leap this year and buy my first decent fat ski - the Rossi Soul 7. In the past three years, I've demoed all the Rossi S-series skis and I really like them a lot, some more than others. I've tried them in all sorts of conditions in both East and West and they have been really good. Of course I have tried other brands and models but I always went back to the Rossi S's.

Every year, I head out West (I am from NYC) with the kids to meet up with my brother (he is from California) and ski for a week in Utah or in Tahoe. We are both expert skiers and we each have been skiing for about 20 years. I mention this because we intend to "share" this new ski. We are virtually the same weight but he is 2 inches shorter than me. We like skiing the same way.

Last week "we" decided to purchase the Rossi Soul 7s in 180.

Some days, he will ski it while I demo something else (or use my own skis), while on other days, I will use them while he does a demo or use his own ski. Please don't ask why we intend to share this ski - because it is what it is and lets just leave it at that.

Now here is my question: We both have the same Nordicas boots but he is on a 27.5 (with a BSL of 310) while I am on 26.5 (with a BSL of 305). With this slight predicament in mind, what are the best bindings we should consider for the Soul 7 that will allow a technician to "adjust" the settings for both 305mm and 310mm BSL boots? And yes, we are quite aware not to adjust the bindings ourselves and we intend to bring the skis to a mountainside ski shop to adjust the bindings for us whenever we switch skis.

I currently have the LOOK Pivot 14 bindings already but they are not yet installed because I don't know if the LOOK has the "adjustability" factor for both boot BSLs.

I don't know much about bindings (ask me about bikes) but we would consider Rossis, Salomons, Looks and even Markers. We don't need high DIN settings and NO, we do not want to consider any demo type adjustable bindings for this ski. Budget would be between $150 to $300 (give or take a few bucks).

Thanks in advance for the detailed responses.
Edited by Cyclist - 10/30/13 at 10:06am
post #2 of 14

Disclaimer!  I'm not an expert, just an avid do-it-yourselfer.  Grains and salt and so on... :)

 

Most any non-demo binding can adjust to accommodate a single boot size of difference.  Actually, it's common for the heel piece to have a range of two boot sizes (20 mm) from all the way forward to all the way back.  Making the adjustment is a simply matter of a few turns of a screwdriver.  I assume you both use the same DIN setting? 

 

This is not a difficult thing to do and you can learn how to do it safely yourself in about five minutes.  The only thing that requires a degree of care about it is making sure the tension is correct.  This is done by clamping the boot into the binding after the initial size setting, then turning the adjustment screw so that it is flush with the housing around it (depending on the binding, some are different), take the boot out, clamp back in to ensure tension setting is still the same, and you're all set.   

 

edit--- quick google of the Look pivot style binding, pressure adjust appears to be kind of a hassle on those.  Looks like it involves adjusting both of the arms... 

post #3 of 14

Between a 305/310 will not be a problem here. Explain to the shop when you are mounting them, to mount them at 307, then you can adjust them either way. The Pivot is pretty sensitive with forward pressure so you want to get it right. 

post #4 of 14

A turntable binding (at least the look and rossi) require adjusting threaded rods between the turntable and the heel piece. That is a minor pain to change. Bindings with non-pivot heels like Salomons, Tyrolias (and their variously re-labled offspring) have a lever in the back that you can lift that allows the binding to slide in a track. That, in my opinion, is easier than the threaded rods to adjust. Some high end bindings that have non-pivot heels may have a screw instead of the lever. That is the easiest to adjust. You can just count the number of clicks and/or revolutions of the screw from one boot size to the other and reliably repeat the process in reverse to switch back.

 

The critical thing, as herbiebug points out, is the tension or (as it is more commonly called) the forward pressure adjustment. Proper forward pressure keeps the boot in the binding as your ski flexes. Improper forward pressure will causes the binding to jam or release unnecessarily.

 

You need to learn how to check the forward pressure is correct. This changes from binding to binding as well, but generally is either a flush or slightly recessed adjustment screw, an arrow pointing into an acceptable range or another type of indicator in acceptable range marks.

 

You do not want to adjust the forward pressure (or fore/aft location of the heel piece) with the boot in the binding. It puts pressure on the adjusting mechanism that may shorten its life; you can't adjust it with the boot in with the lever or pivot heel. Put the boot in, check the forward pressure, remove the boot and adjust forward pressure accordingly, then put the boot back in and repeat until it is right.

 

Depending on the binding, there may be toe wing adjustments as well as vertical height adjustments to match the boot to the toe of the binding. Most notably Salomons still have these adjustments. Wear and boot shape can affect these adjustments so switching boots may require adjustments to these settings as well.

 

It isn't rocket science but if you mess up you'll possibly have undesireable releases and in the worse case serious injury. Make sure you know what you are doing before you start messing with the bindings. You'll be ok if you learn how to adjust them and stick to the routine religiously. The last thing you want to do is switch skis and not bother with the forward pressure adjustment. If it is correct for one BSL, then it will be either too little or too much for the other. 5mm may not seem like a lot, but with bindings and forward pressure, it matters.

 

Good luck. Have fun. I hear those skis are great.

post #5 of 14

PP, you squeezed in ahead of my with your reply. You are advocating a 2mm error in forward pressure for one and 3mm for the other. Hmmm.

 

I'd accept a couple mms difference just to try a ski for a run, knowing that things aren't optimum, but for a day of skiing, isn't that a bit too much room for error?

post #6 of 14

The issue though is not the heel, the toe is in the wrong place for one boot or the other.

 

If they were mounted for your brother's boot your boot toe is going to be very slightly farther forward than you would be if mounted for a 305. He is going to be in the correct FACTORY position for the ski

 

Now some would say that being 5mm forward (I am going to assume the bindings are mounted to center point of the boot) is good,  an advantage.

 

It  may or may not be the case depending on many variables for each skier. Of course  5 mm equals a little less than .2 of an inch. So not much.

 

I have experimented extensively with binding postion as I have skied on Atomic Race binding for years, which have 5 instantly adjustable positions on the ski . All-around (center), 2 postions forward of that and 2 position rear of that.

 

I do not like the forward positions and found they did just the opposite for me from what I expected. The farther forward I was the more I felt back. Of course Atomic skis are historically mounted farther back on the ski than just about any manufacturer. I always ended up back at the all-around postion.

 

As far as simply adjusting the heel, most bindings,  as has been said can easily accommodate 5mm difference with a simple forward pressure adjustment


Edited by Atomicman - 10/30/13 at 11:04pm
post #7 of 14

MR, if you see, I said that you can adjust it either way. 

 

Atomic, if they use a 307 as a mount point, then it is only off 1.5mm from center, not an issue, IMHO. 

post #8 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post
 

MR, if you see, I said that you can adjust it either way.

 

Atomic, if they use a 307 as a mount point, then it is only off 1.5mm from center, not an issue, IMHO.

Agreed!

post #9 of 14
Thread Starter 
Awesome replies! Thanks.

A few comments:

- :DI am aware of the double barrel feature of the Pivots, and this feature is the only hesitation I have in installing this binding. Hence my quest for an alternative.
-: I do not intend to do the adjustments myself, at least in the beginning. If i do get the hang of it, then i will do it myself.
-: I was seriously considering Phils suggestion of setting it at a 307 BSL but using the 305 BSL boot as the basis for the center. That way, the 310 BSL boot will be 0.5 cm back, which should be tolerable.
-: Both our boots are Nordica Speedmachines so the toe and heels will virtually be the same, except for the BSL of course.
-: We don't intend to swap skis on a daily basis. Probably more on a weekly basis but we want the flexibility of swapping.
- : Our DIN setting will be the same. If not, I can adjust those myself.

I might just have the PIvots installed, but would like to consider alternatives. Phil and atomicman, what would you recommend in the Rossi Atomic limes?

Thanks guys.
post #10 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclist View Post

Awesome replies! Thanks.

A few comments:

- :DI am aware of the double barrel feature of the Pivots, and this feature is the only hesitation I have in installing this binding. Hence my quest for an alternative.
-: I do not intend to do the adjustments myself, at least in the beginning. If i do get the hang of it, then i will do it myself.
-: I was seriously considering Phils suggestion of setting it at a 307 BSL but using the 305 BSL boot as the basis for the center. That way, the 310 BSL boot will be 0.5 cm back, which should be tolerable.
-: Both our boots are Nordica Speedmachines so the toe and heels will virtually be the same, except for the BSL of course.
-: We don't intend to swap skis on a daily basis. Probably more on a weekly basis but we want the flexibility of swapping.
- : Our DIN setting will be the same. If not, I can adjust those myself.

I might just have the PIvots installed, but would like to consider alternatives. Phil and atomicman, what would you recommend in the Rossi Atomic limes?

Thanks guys.
If both of your boots are speed machines, they will be a 305 and 315, there were no 310 Speedmachines.
post #11 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post
 

MR, if you see, I said that you can adjust it either way. 

 

Atomic, if they use a 307 as a mount point, then it is only off 1.5mm from center, not an issue, IMHO. 

 

I misread your intent. Mount for a 307 then adjust for either way per the boot needed. Yes. I'm in agreement. :o 

post #12 of 14

Plan A:  Listen to Philpug.

 

Plan B:  See if someone will sell you a Marker Griffon Demo.  Sell or return the Pivot 14.

post #13 of 14
Thread Starter 
Are you serious? I gotta call him up now to find out how long his BSL is for his Speedmachines. darn it!
post #14 of 14
Thread Starter 
demo meaning bindings on rails? Meh, not being considered right now.
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EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ski Gear Discussion › A quirky question for the ski and binding experts here....