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Bindings mounted crooked - What's acceptable?

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 
I just had some Head RFD14 bindings mounted to 190 cm Moment Deathwish skis by a shop in SLC. While they looked fine in the store, when I got home and started fiddling with (OK . . . fondling) them, I noticed the bindings are not mounted straight down the ski.

Both bindings are mounted exactly the same, so they must have used a jig. The front of the binding has 2" to the sidewall on one side, and 2.25" to the other sidewall. The back of the ski is the opposite (2.25" and 2"). The Head RFD is a rail mount system, and I can move the whole thing 1.5 cm back or forward easily.

I figure the bindings are offset by about 2 degrees overall. Since my feet don't point exactly straight forward, I could probably get away with one ski offset, but the other one will be pigeon-toed (it'll aways be my right foot).

So is 2 degrees that big a deal? Would I even notice this? If I had them remounted, they'd just about have the screws in the same holes. I've mounted several bindings myself over the years, so I could probably fix them myself. SLC is a 3 hour drive, so I don't get there too often. How far apart should mount holes typically be spaced without structural integrity problems?
post #2 of 17

I mounted a pair almost that crooked a couple years ago. The toes are about 3/16ths of an inch off to the same side because I mismarked the center.  The heels came out fine though.   I had the same apprehension that everything would feel crooked.  They ski absolutely fine.  I can't tell at all when skiing them.  Yours sound a little bit more twisted, but I doubt you'll notice. 

 

What are the alternatives?  Plugging the holes and moving the rails up or back a cm is doable.  It just depends on how much knowing about it bothers you and if you think it is worth the time and effort to get them redone.  I'd leave them knowing what I know now,  But, I'd be pissed in your shoes right now because you paid someone to do it right and they didn't.  Perhaps you should start by contacting them and sending them photos to see if they can compensate you some.. Free stuff!

post #3 of 17

I'm pretty much obsessive compulsive, so this setup would drive me nuts.  

 

If they used a metal jig, it was either bent (and they didn't know), or one of the rubber feet slipped (rookie move).

 

Contact the shop (sooner the better).  Hopefully the guy (who makes very little money) that did the mount, doesn't get into too much trouble.  Mistakes happen.

post #4 of 17
Thread Starter 
I fired up the search function last night, and found quite a few more instances on this problem. One thing that resonated with me was to check against the ski edges, not the topsheet. What I found there (upon further review) was that the bindings were off by a little less. The toe was off 3mm and the heel was off 3mm, in different directions, and both skis are still identically futzed. Still a noticeable twist, but not the 5mm I measured off the topsheet.

I'm going to take some pictures and send them off to the shop. Can't hurt, and maybe they'll have an answer about how far off I could remount without risking the screws pulling out.

edit - crgildart - you think going 1 cm away from previous screw holes would be adequate?
post #5 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpikeDog View Post

. The toe was off 3mm and the heel was off 3mm, in different directions, and both skis are still identically futzed. Still a noticeable twist, but not the 5mm I measured off the topsheet.
 

 

How much of that do you think could be corrected just by loosening the rail screws, holding the rail approximately straight and re-tightening to the same holes while holding the rail straight?    I think there's a decent chance you could get 1-2mm of slop at any individual hole that way, and, if you took care to glue the screws properly, it may not even shift much over the life of the ski, esp. since there are 8 rail screws per ski.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpikeDog View Post


So is 2 degrees that big a deal? Would I even notice this?

 

Depends on many things, including the taper of the ski they're mounted on and your muscle conditioning.

post #6 of 17
Thread Starter 

A few photos of the mount position - this is the back of one ski (with a SlideWright centering tool I found the link to on another thread):

 

 

The overall look

 

 

Using the SlideWright tool, I got one ski at 3mm left on the front and 3 mm right on the back; the other one was 2mm left on the front, 5 mm right on the back (top photo).  Kinda sucky, but from the overall photo it doesn't look too heinous, right?  If I keep them as is, I think I'm going to hook the right ski tip under the other one on every right turn.

post #7 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post
 

 

How much of that do you think could be corrected just by loosening the rail screws, holding the rail approximately straight and re-tightening to the same holes while holding the rail straight?    I think there's a decent chance you could get 1-2mm of slop at any individual hole that way, and, if you took care to glue the screws properly, it may not even shift much over the life of the ski, esp. since there are 8 rail screws per ski.

 

Depends on many things, including the taper of the ski they're mounted on and your muscle conditioning.

You are correct - 8 burly screws per rail plate.  Eyeballing it without taking too much apart, I don't think too much slop is available.  It's pretty solid.

post #8 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpikeDog View Post

 

 

 

LOL...nothing says newly mounted bindings like skis on the floor next to a ruler and a mini-mag.

post #9 of 17

OK, I'll go out on a limb here!.  Chances of you actually noticing anything untoward when you ski are 2/5ths of b***** all  :popcorn

 

Notice you are getting different measurements each time?  . And you are trying to measure with a plastic ruler......??

post #10 of 17

No, you're right, they're slightly off.  

 

I'd take them back to the shop, be nice, work out with them where it went wrong, get mileage out of the guys for your next bit of work, then go and ski them as hard as you like.  I doubt you'll notice any difference.  If it were me I'd notice every time I looked, so I'd want to get my next base grind for nix ... but that's just me.

 

Sometimes the mounting jig has a rubber cover on the the metal 'feet' that contact the ski on each side, and on occasion one cover can go missing.  Perhaps this is your cause.  In any case it would be a good deed to go back and let them know something's up.  Take beer ... become lifetime buds. 

post #11 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpikeDog View Post
 
You are correct - 8 burly screws per rail plate. 

 

Yep. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpikeDog View Post
 
  Eyeballing it without taking too much apart, 

 

I think we're misunderstanding each other here.    Rephrasing my original post, I will put the question again:  "Assuming each binding screw has ~1.5mm of sideways slop when it's unscrewed and screwed back as the rail is held in the 'proper' position, how much closer would you be to your ideal point?"

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpikeDog View Post
 It's pretty solid.

 

Which is why the fix I mention does work, and might even be something your shop will consider doing.  

post #12 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post
 

 

Yep. 

 

 

I think we're misunderstanding each other here.    Rephrasing my original post, I will put the question again:  "Assuming each binding screw has ~1.5mm of sideways slop when it's unscrewed and screwed back as the rail is held in the 'proper' position, how much closer would you be to your ideal point?"

 

 

Which is why the fix I mention does work, and might even be something your shop will consider doing.  

 

 

Yep!   that is the easiest way.  just loosen all of them off, straighten up and then tighten down the front and back ones first.  If the fitter didn't do it that way it is easy for the rail to start going crooked as you tighten down

post #13 of 17
Thread Starter 
Looking down at the screws, it looks like each one fits into a bevel. If this were the case, as the screws were tightened, the railplate would return to the same point eventually, no?

If this is not the case, and the screws are flat-bottomed, then wouldn't the plate start to wiggle around after time as the screw's tension declined? This is the 3rd railflex system I've had, going back to 2007, and I've never had one slide around.
post #14 of 17
Thread Starter 
After trading emails with the shop, I took them back in. First we tried to loosen, realign, and retighten the plates. Several screws are threaded through a little square plastic 'washer' that allows some fore-aft movement, but nothing side to side. The plates would stubbornly go back to the same spot during tightening. They admitted the jig did not accomodate wider skis (the Deathwish waist is 112), and would take another shot at mounting. We went with about a center mount so the new screw holes were 1 cm forward of the old ones.

The plates are straighter now. The heels are spot on, and the toes are within 2 mm - not perfect, but better. The shop gave me $70 off a new helmet, and threw in a couple of free ski socks.
post #15 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpikeDog View Post

After trading emails with the shop, I took them back in. First we tried to loosen, realign, and retighten the plates. Several screws are threaded through a little square plastic 'washer' that allows some fore-aft movement, but nothing side to side. The plates would stubbornly go back to the same spot during tightening. They admitted the jig did not accomodate wider skis (the Deathwish waist is 112), and would take another shot at mounting. We went with about a center mount so the new screw holes were 1 cm forward of the old ones.

The plates are straighter now. The heels are spot on, and the toes are within 2 mm - not perfect, but better. The shop gave me $70 off a new helmet, and threw in a couple of free ski socks.


This is what I would call fair and acceptable from all sides of the equation and what I'd do personally to fix my own skis in the same predicament.  Sorry you lost time, transportation, and possibly some resale value.  But hats off for being reasonable and fair with the shop that obviously messed up.  Glad they were able to fix it for you and give you free stuff in compensation.

post #16 of 17
Thread Starter 

I'll check back in once I've got a few days on the boards.  There are several similar threads on this subject I found with the search function, but in each of them the OP never gives any final feedback.

post #17 of 17
Thread Starter 

Final feed back - I got some time on these skis finally.  The skis tracked fine, although I never swapped them to the other foot.  A half day at Alta, no new snow for a week, snuck over to Snowbird's Mineral Basin for a couple of runs too.  Whether they would've been OK with the original mount??  Maybe not, but being about a degree off on the mount angle wasn't a problem.  I'll post a review on the Moment Deathwish once I get a few more days on them, hopefully on more than just groomers.

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EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Tuning, Maintenance and Repairs › Bindings mounted crooked - What's acceptable?