Originally Posted by bud heishman
What if while you stand there you release your edges?
Bud that's a great exercise. Of course, from stand still, first gravity operates on us and like a falling leaf as LF pointed out, and depending on our balance, the tips may drift down first and into the fall line. This is enhanced a lot by really aggressive tipping of the downhill foot, which basically edges the uphill ski. Once the ski starts sliding forward the self steering effects will kick in, very subtle at first, but if we keep the right balance and allow things to build, it increases; But in this exercise, a lot of that is more related to gravity and the way we manipulate our fore-aft balance to release our edges and let gravity take us a certain way, but yes as it builds, self-steering definitely contributes. In my experience, once you pass the fall line, your CoM's mass starts to direct itself to the tail of the ski, which is how the skis turn out of the fall line, combined with self-steering. The whole thing is a combination of manipulating your fore-aft balance as gravity pulls you down the hill and as the skis begin to slide forward, the self-steering effects also contribute to rotating the skis. It can be done without actively twisting the skis.
Its very very enlightening to do these and make a concerted effort not to twist your skis while you do them. For anyone that has never tried them this way, you will definitely experience that its possible to do something that is nearly (but not quite) a pivot slip, without twisting your skis at all to do it. Be very patient, you have to wait for gravity and self-steering to operate on you.
Just to be clear, my request for discussion on this thread is really about self steering effects on the ski caused by motion, mainly forward motion, as the ski bends into steering angle and deflects with the snow...with different steering angles on the front and back of the ski. More specifically does the ski rotate itself.......which will in turn causing steering.....
I want to draw a distinction here between turn shape and rotation. Turn shape or turn radius..is the path the skis slide across the snow, usually curved. Rotation is how the skis change the direction they are pointing, independently of the path they are sliding.
Steering is, I feel, the act of manipulating the rotation of the ski in order to manipulate the path they will slide on. This manipulation can be through active leg rotation as many endorse, it can be through tipping to harness self steering effects of the ski, which in turn steer the skis and effect turn shape. It can be through changes of balance, which also effect the self steering properties of the ski, which in turn effect the turn shape....and basically steer the skis. So basically....steering the skis is a LOT more than just twisting the legs.. It can be some combination of a number of things, which may or may not include any twisting of the legs...but I'd still call it steering if the result is to steer the skis on a turn shape other then the pure arc.
So my question, at least initially is....about these other methods that harness the self steering properties of skis, to effect the rotational aspect of the skis...which in turn effects the turn shape,......... i.e. steering.
Originally Posted by Ghost
Active rotary, properly applied, moves that mass just enough to keep up with what the self steering properties of the ski directing the ski to do so there is no resistance. Don't fight the ski, dance with it.
And yes, more tipping = more self-steering, regardless of carving.
I like what you say about rotating the legs enough to keep up with the self steering. In other words, keep the legs out of the way. I guess I would prefer to call this passive rotary, but that is not really the right word either. If you are actively rotating, then its active; as opposed to somehow just relaxing your legs and allowing them to be passively rotated, which can also happen by the way. But I think a better way of putting it is, JUST ENOUGH active rotary so that you remove resistance of self-steering, while not necessarily trying to muscle more rotation out of the skis. Dance with the ski.