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Lower Body Strength and Plyometric Training without Weights - Page 3

post #61 of 78
Romanian DeadLifts
post #62 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Jones View Post

What does RDL stand for

Romanian deadlift.
post #63 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by evaino View Post

@justruss, I'm curious what you read or saw of Bret's that was not involving adding weight as Bret is very pro lifting heavy.

I definitely agree about RDLs and single leg RDLs being great, but most people should be going heavy with them. Here's a single leg RDL video in case anyone isn't sure what they are:

That said I have also recently started having clients do walking single leg RDLs on a two by four and am liking what I see. I'm still of the opinion that one needs to lift heavy to really be ready for what sports throw at us, but I also think there is great value in focussing on movement - along the lines of the primal, movnat, and animal flow stuff.

Truthfully there's no conclusive science to really support any one training method's effectiveness over another in terms of preparation for sports, so I could be totally wrong. That said, myself and my clients get great results in terms of low injury rates, minimal (or no) post-sport soreness, and increased performance. To me those are the three results you want, and if you get them, you're doing something right. If you're not getting those results, then maybe time to revisit your approach.

 

Oh yeah, Contreras is totally pro-lifting with weight-- and RDLs (unless one-leg, just to get the movement down or if one is totally untrained) definitely get weighted, though less than deadlift obviously. I was referencing something Contreras wrote about on activating the glutes and hamstrings via unweighted (at first) glute bridges, hip-thrusters, clams, and lateral leg lifts. I'll try to find it, since it definitely would be useful for skiers since it references stability at the knee and glute medius. 

post #64 of 78
post #65 of 78

it's not bad, but IMHO it's too "Strength & Conditioning for the gym" rather than for the athlete.

If I have to prevent/correct valgus in an athlete, I would have exercises that mimic sport specific movements more than lifting strength. 

So while being in a sense right, I wouldn't have the same focus as him. correcting ankle DF, and strengthening is good, but I think the real issue if teaching the pt. how to control the movement, which will also strengthen the muscles and reinforce correct motor programs.

post #66 of 78
I'm with you jzamp. I'm not a lifting for lifting's sake person. I just like some of what Contreras talks about wrt to emg activation studies.
post #67 of 78

A newbie experience with Romanian Dead Lifts. To be clear, I've recently began work with a trainer on a general conditioning program, and one of the exercises that I asked to be included is the traditional romanian dead lift. Prior to my training sessions, I was performing what I believed to be a RDL. When my coach observed what I was doing, he called "time out" very quickly and began coaching me up on the proper form. Back straight, knees slightly flexed and lifting without using back muscles ( a very incomplete description). We reverted to very low weights and concentration on form, form and more form. This exercise is deceptively difficult to perform correctly.

 

I do like the single leg video that evaino put up, as adding the balance aspect is something I need to improve upon.This thread has been very informative and added much toward conditioning my body for the upcoming season. I'll never be a lifter of heavy weight, it's a great way to train. Thanks to all who contributed.

post #68 of 78

That's right, LP, the form is very important-- and going down to low weight to get it right is the way to do it. And I think you've nailed the important parts: back neutral (neutral arch), arms back (lat supported), solid core, the barbell or dumbbells and hands should essentially run right down your legs barely touching, and the legs should essentially be straight with just enough bend to unlock them (really, think of them unlocked but straight). The movement starts at the top, and you go down until you feel a strong stretch in the hamstrings with the butt going backwards, back neutral, and weight through the heels. If your back leaves neutral and rounds... you've gone too far. Then reverse, using primarily your hamstrings, and then a contraction in the glutes at the top. Depending on the relative strengths of your muscles, you may well feel a good amount of lower back (erector spinae) involvement. But the emphasis is on the hamstrings... which will be fried by the end, even without a lot of weight. The next day you'll be hobbling like a crazy person :) 

 

It's probably my favorite exercise... and very functional for athletes. 

post #69 of 78
Nothing wrong with body weight exercises, they engage a lot of small muscles, help with balance, but you still need to push some heavy ass weights on a leg press, ie 3x your body weight.
The leg press is a lot safer than squats, and you can build some major strength and muscle mass this way.

Plyos are great, but only after 6+ weeks of heavy weights, and even then no more than once a week, to prevent injuries.

I have a theory that the reason personal trainers advise so many different exercises if because if they said use these 2 or three machines for lower body, people would not train with them twice a week forever.

So they need varied without workouts to stay in business.
post #70 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by loboskis View Post
 

All those exercises are great and will get you "stronger" , but true strength you will need weight,period

http://www.scsepf.org/doc/291208/Paper1.pdf

post #71 of 78

 


Edited by loboskis - 3/2/14 at 5:11am
post #72 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by chad View Post
 

http://www.scsepf.org/doc/291208/Paper1.pdf

Donny Shankle would disagree. His bunch "rips the head off the lion every time"

 

We only use max lifts to establish a base . Then it's all percentages from there. Depending on the cycle,6-12weeks all sub max.

Then you test your 1 RM and go again.

post #73 of 78

Not trying to start anything, don't really care, read some of the thread while home, just thought the info would be interesting, people can get strong without having to rip a lion or whatever that means.

 

peace.

post #74 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by chad View Post
 

Not trying to start anything, don't really care, read some of the thread while home, just thought the info would be interesting, people can get strong without having to rip a lion or whatever that means.

 

peace.


no worries. With the current climate around here one never knows.

My original statement was in no way saying that you should lift max all the time . Bodyweight will only take you so far. To get strong you must systematically and progressively lift weight. 

post #75 of 78

~~“The number one thing, you got to have is the discipline to come and train” “You got to pull on that bar like you’re ripping off the head off of a goddamn lion” “If you train more than the next man, and you like to eat, you’re gonna win.”

Donnie Shankle

post #76 of 78
Quote:
Dammit, another journal article I have to read! seriously, looks interesting based on the abstract and first page or so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by loboskis View Post

Bodyweight will only take you so far. To get strong you must systematically and progressively lift weight.
I'm so confused, loboskis. "Bodyweight will take you only so far" to where?

Are you saying that someone doing the drills Brian Lindahl described isn't "strong"? What is "strong," and what is this "true strength" you keep talking about? And how is it superior to the strength you get from the exaggerated loading created by movement-centered exercises?
post #77 of 78

sounds like a rowing  coach I used to have :)

 

just thinking about the idea of body weight training and the size principle, changing the duration and speed of the muscle contraction is what activates the motor neuron pool all the way up to those fast fatiguable neurons, so as long as those variables were dynamic a person could conceivably get stronger and stronger.  Not saying weight training is bad in any way, lots of benefits. 

post #78 of 78

stumbled into this, the link also has a detailed description of their muscle factor model which might be of interest in this thread

 

http://trainingscience.net/?page_id=174

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