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Help with selecting a replacement boot liner?

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 

I have a pair of Nordica SpeedMachine 110's that have around 130 days on them.  The fit on them has been pretty good, but the stock liners are dead.

 

I'm not really trying to solve a problem with new liners, aside from that the stock liners are worn out and pretty sloppy at this point.

 

In the past, I've tended to buy new boots instead of replace liners, but I've also usually had something I didn't like about the boot. So, I've never bought new liners and don't really know what to look for.

 

I go to intuitions site and my eyes cross. There are a ton of different models, and I can't really tell how each differs, and what would make sense to get.

 

I'm also trying to replace these on a budget. I would like to get new liners for around $100-150 if I can, but I can't figure out what I should be looking for to even find a deal.

 

Most of my skiing is soft snow. I would rather err toward comfort than performance.

 

Can anybody help point me in the right direction here?

post #2 of 20

Intuitions are a good option.  Essentially the model differences come down to two things; the thickness of the foam surrounding your foot (designed to deal with variations in the fit between your foot and the boot shell - tighter boots need thinner liners) and wrap v's tongue design for the new liner.

 

One consideration will be the state of the sole of your boots.  If the soles are worn down they can affect the interface between boot and binding.  If that's the case you'll need to consider either new boots or new sole plates for your Speedmachines (which are available).

 

Lots of good reading on after market liners hereabouts if you search.  I'm no expert so I'll leave you in the hands of more experienced folk.

 

Best of luck.

post #3 of 20
Go Intuition. There are a bunch of Intuition Luxury Liners on eBay right now for $99 shipped. That's a screaming good deal. The LL is a very nice all-around liner that should suit you according to your post, as long as you don't have any tricky fitting problems with your feet and/or shell. Of you happen to be a size 12 there are some wrap-style that look good. Check them out and see if you have any questions.

Intuition recommends sizing up to the next even size if you're a half size:
https://intuitionliners.com/choosing-the-right-liner/

You can cook the liners at home if you want - tutorials abound, I can get you pointed in the right direction. Or take them to your LBF (local boot fitter).
post #4 of 20

When you do a shell fit for length, how much space do you have behind your heel?  Average forefoot width or +/-?  Skinny, average, or big calves?  Low, average or high instep?

post #5 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Lee View Post

Go Intuition. There are a bunch of Intuition Luxury Liners on eBay right now for $99 shipped. That's a screaming good deal. The LL is a very nice all-around liner that should suit you according to your post, as long as you don't have any tricky fitting problems with your feet and/or shell. Of you happen to be a size 12 there are some wrap-style that look good. Check them out and see if you have any questions.

Intuition recommends sizing up to the next even size if you're a half size:
https://intuitionliners.com/choosing-the-right-liner/

You can cook the liners at home if you want - tutorials abound, I can get you pointed in the right direction. Or take them to your LBF (local boot fitter).

 

Thanks a lot for the info! I'm seeing the $99 stuff, but I also see $15 shipping. Still a good deal.

 

My current liners are 27.5. I read the Intuition site where they said to move up, so I would order a mondo 28 liner? I'm just a bit worried about putting a 28 liner in a 27 shell and having it fit.

 

I have about a 1 1/2 finger fit on the shell, so that would be medium, yes?

post #6 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1000oaks View Post
 

When you do a shell fit for length, how much space do you have behind your heel?  Average forefoot width or +/-?  Skinny, average, or big calves?  Low, average or high instep?


 I have a 1 1/2 finger shell fit.

 

I have very, very wide feet. The boots have been punched out around the last measurement area.

 

I have a pretty high instep and generally buckle the instep buckle just enough to keep it latched- its the tightest part of the boot.

 

I have pretty parge calves, but the muscles are also pretty high and only take up volume in the cuff area.

post #7 of 20
That's weird, when I went to eBay through google the multiple list said free shipping, but now I see the $15 shipping. redface.gif

Anyway, you can call Intuition and ask them, but I'd go with the 28s, all things considered. I've always bumped up to the full size and it's worked.

Sounds like the medium volume would work well. I'm assuming you've read enough of the (voluminous) boot fitting info here to have a basic grip on what constitutes a good fit.
post #8 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Lee View Post

That's weird, when I went to eBay through google the multiple list said free shipping, but now I see the $15 shipping. redface.gif

Anyway, you can call Intuition and ask them, but I'd go with the 28s, all things considered. I've always bumped up to the full size and it's worked.

Sounds like the medium volume would work well. I'm assuming you've read enough of the (voluminous) boot fitting info here to have a basic grip on what constitutes a good fit.

I'm just nervous with taking advice to move up to a larger size- that's not normal advice in the ski boot world.

post #9 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by anachronism View Post
 

I'm just nervous with taking advice to move up to a larger size- that's not normal advice in the ski boot world.


I think more often problems arise with the liner being too short.  I tried a Powerwrap last season and it took up too much volume and the Dreamliner MV wasn't quite enough.

Right now I can only take two runs with the Powerwraps they're so tight.  Hopefully I can get them packed out a little more this season.

post #10 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by anachronism View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Lee View Post

That's weird, when I went to eBay through google the multiple list said free shipping, but now I see the $15 shipping. redface.gif

Anyway, you can call Intuition and ask them, but I'd go with the 28s, all things considered. I've always bumped up to the full size and it's worked.

Sounds like the medium volume would work well. I'm assuming you've read enough of the (voluminous) boot fitting info here to have a basic grip on what constitutes a good fit.

 

I'm just nervous with taking advice to move up to a larger size- that's not normal advice in the ski boot world.

 

Well, if it's any comfort, we're talking about liners here - not shells.  Different beasts - heated liners are quite soft and will conform to your foot and the shell within a half-size.  I guess you could always ask the Boot Guys.  

post #11 of 20

I would call intuition, they are real helpful. When it comes to molding I prefer to do it in a regular thickness sock, then wear an thin sock to ski in. When it packs out a little more you can experiment with your normal sock again. though I now prefer the thinner sock all the time.

post #12 of 20

i agree intuition is quite helpful with information; my communications were via email.  i myself have used and prefer zip-fit liners.  however, if you're on a budget can you order a replacement stock liner for your boot?

post #13 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcdave69 View Post
 

i agree intuition is quite helpful with information; my communications were via email.  i myself have used and prefer zip-fit liners.  however, if you're on a budget can you order a replacement stock liner for your boot?

 

I probably could, but a replacement stock liner would probably be most of the cost of an Intuition, especially with the deals out there. I've seen new Intuitions going for around $100 fairly frequently, but whenever I try to research what I need, I just can't figure out what I am looking for and what I need.

post #14 of 20

Replacement liners from Intuition are a great idea.

 

But, I would strongly urge you to find an Intuition dealer, go to their shop, and try on various models and sizes.  I bought a pair of intuition liners over the phone and then spent several months with my local bootfitter trying to make them work.  Turns out that the Luxury Liner I bought with its 6mm sole was just too thick for my feet/boots and no amount of fiddling was going to make it work for me. I replaced them with a pair of Dreamliners instead - thinner sole, but thicker elsewhere.

 

It only took about 20 minutes to get a perfect fit the Intuition shop in Vancouver.  I think we tried about 5 models and sizes before settling on the right one.  For each model, there's a sole length  and a 'thickness" (high, medium, and low volume).  With nearly a dozen models, that's a lot of options and there's probably a liner for every foot/shell combo, but trying to figure that out without trying them on is going to be difficult.

 

BTW, Intuition replaced them at no cost to me, even though the Dreamliners retail for about $10 more.  Compared to the cost of new boots, the liners are cheap at full retail price. A "deal" on ebay may not be so great if you wind up with the wrong size/model like I did.

post #15 of 20

Sounds to me like your foot and my foot are relatively similar.  Sort of 'medium' all round, wide(ish) with a high instep.  I also have Speedmachines (the 14s).  I have my instep buckle extended out to maximum and only really click it down to hold it in place.  After my stock liner packs out a little I can start to put a little pressure on that buckle.

 

Intuition's wrap liners begin to double up over the instep, so you'll need to be careful there.  From an earlier post I think the thinnest sole available sounds like your best option in the wrap series, so pay attention to the sole thickness of various models.  I have a pair of standard (black) Intuitions sitting in a cupboard at home.  They were too thick for me (the way my foot fits inside my boot) and didn't go anywhere near fitting properly over my instep.  My shell fit is quite tight (one finger) and if I were to give it another go I would move up to the thinnest of liners, especially in the sole.

 

Once the liners are heat molded be careful about expecting them to pack out any further day-to-day.  Intuitions are far more firm than the stock liner, and they tend not to pack out very much at all.  That's why they're heat molded in the first place - you need them to fit properly.

 

Your boots are going to end up feeling a little more stiff than they were originally, so factor that in as well.

 

As ever there's nothing like talking with the experts.  It may cost you a little more, but you'll get the best fit.  If you average the cost out over another 130 days of skiing it becomes trivial.  If you're going ahead speak with the Intuition guys, explain how you fit in your existing boots and have them recommend the correct liner for you.  Then go shopping for a deal.

 

Best of luck.

post #16 of 20

being a zipfit guy , I would save up for them,for one reason they are worth it, long lasting , great fit , much better performance 

post #17 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Lee View Post

Anyway, you can call Intuition and ask them

 

There you go, give them a ring and ask some one there (I have spoke to Crystal in the past) which liner is best for your situation/equipment.

There is a group buy thread on TGR now in gear swap.

Maybe look at that for a better deal???

post #18 of 20

Sounds like the new Pro Wrap might be a good option, since the foam is thin in the toe box area (for your wide feet) and you can remove the foam insert in the sole (and then add back the correct thickness insole) to create the proper instep space in the shell.  The cuff is medium volume, which is good since you won't want a high volume cuff with your thick calves.  So when you mold them, remember to really crank down on the instep buckle to squish as much foam away from there as possible.

https://intuitionliners.com/the-liners/powerwrap/

 

The group buy is closed on TGR, but have you read this thread about Intuition liners?

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/149284-Intuition-liners

post #19 of 20

I saved a pair of 1990s Lange X Zero 9 shells in very good condition last year with a Scarpa-branded Intuition wrap liner.  They were $60 on ebay, Mondo 29 and went into the 11-11.5 Lange shell very snugly.  First cook (at a reputable local shop) got me skiing, but the forefoot and toe box were still pretty jammed.  I'm actually a 12A foot but liked to ski the Langes a little small for responsiveness.

 

I did a second cook at home after two or three days on snow, talking to the ebay seller, and reading up on it here.  Cotton balls between my toes, very thin sock, Intuition toe cap, footbed, and a medium-weight ski sock.  I built a little boot-remover device for the parking lot at the end of the day (see photo); a piece of plywood with old Tyrolia latch-in bindings.  Put the boot in the binding, spread the Intuition flaps firmly, put the other foot on the device behind the heel unit, and pull the foot right out; yoink!  I got the liners hot, stuffed them into the shells (also warmed to touch), put the foot package in, buckled up, and hooked the front of the device over a chair rung to put gravity pressure on the heel pocket (that's what the seller said was the key; aggressively pushing the heel back into the pocket) and read a magazine article or two on a 15-minute timer.

 

Took them to Squaw with just the thin sock, and they were perfect.  My foot plugs in like foot and boot were made for each other, and I hardly have to cinch the foot buckles beyond mere snap-over.  The toe box is still snug, but much better than the first cook.  They seem to stiffen the boot somewhat, and one bonus is that it's easy to get the ankle buckles tight enough now (I always had to move the buckle rail on the third buckle to tighten the cuff up for my skinny ankles).  With a 1-1/2" secondary power strap, they're probably 130+ flex. With the wimpy stock strap, maybe 120.  The higher, softer liner cuff is much easier on my shins than the stock liner ever was.

 

The only pain I had after the second cook was at Mt. Bachelor in April, taking one last run on Thunderbird in heavy, sticky spring slush.  The forces being slammed into my feet were just too much.  A week later at Squaw, in January conditions, they were blissful again.  Lesson: don't try to blitz that last run on spring garbage.

 

One more modification note:  the Langes had plastic lateral stiffeners sewn to the stock liner.  To keep the shell design as close as possible to the original, I cut the stitches out and glued and taped (grip or gaffer's tape–like duct tape but much less messy adhesive and removable) the stiffeners to the shell.  Hard to describe but worked well.  It also made the forward-lean spoiler optional if I want to experiment with a more modern stance.  A little silicone spray on the tape lets the liners slip in and out easily.  The stiffeners are the black and red plastic stuff in the photo.

 

So, even though I'm planning to buy K2 boots this year (the Langes are pushing 20 years old, after all, and I got a SUPERB cold fit in a Pinnacle 110), I'll probably keep the Langes for race days or whatever.

 

I highly recommend the Intuitions if you're trying to breathe a second wind into worthy old shells with packed-out liners.  Take your time to get it right and you won't be sorry.

post #20 of 20
Thread Starter 

I found a pair of new Tecnica liners for $30 shipped, and went with those. Not intuitions, but worlds better than the old sloppy liners

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