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GS Race Suits - FIS and Non FIS

post #1 of 26
Thread Starter 

What's the difference aside from one is allowed in FIS events and the other is not?  Is it just the permeability?

 

Is there any advantage to getting an FIS GS suit for non FIS races?

post #2 of 26
That is my understanding ken. The FIS one has the plombe tag on it. Although I know when I raced at the world Fis masters at mammoth a couple of years ago it wasn't required.

The real deal ones should be faster though in theory. I have some USST suits and , while it may just be in the mind, they do feel faster, strange as it seems. For tech events though, not really going to notice a difference. Incidentally, in talking with some of the US speed team guys recently, they tell me they are not even wearing a stealth under the suits now as it is slightly quicker without it!
Edited by ScotsSkier - 10/13/13 at 4:04pm
post #3 of 26

I don't know how non-FIS suits look like, but if everything would be fine, non-FIS should be faster ;) If you want to comply with FIS rules suite has to have certain permeability, they can't be made of certain materials etc. Non-FIS compliant suite can be much faster since it doesn't need to follow these rules. But that's theory so it depends what is in real life, but I would still sau that certain non-FIS compliant suits are faster then FIS compliant ones.

post #4 of 26
When did they start labeling them as FIS compliant or not? I know when I was buying suits for my daughter it wasn't something I worried about.. But I think it's been ten years.
post #5 of 26
The FIS suits can pass porosity test, that is why they have plombe tag.
Other than that, there is no difference.
post #6 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy4g63 View Post

The FIS suits can pass porosity test, that is why they have plombe tag.
Other than that, there is no difference.

 

 

Sort of. In theory if it can pass the test and get the tag it is "FIS legal" In reality, they are made of a higher grade material than non-FIS suits. For example, off the shelf Spyder and Beyond-X suit pill like anything and they are made from Swiss Eschler fabric. The real deal WC, plombed, DH suit my son has isn't showing any signs of pilling yet and it was confirmed in conversation with the folks at SRD that it is a totally different fabric and that's why they are correspondingly more expensive.

 

However, unless you are planning on racing NorAm or Europa Cup there's no need to invest in one unless you are simply interested in a genuine article.

post #7 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroGravity View Post
 

 

 

Sort of. In theory if it can pass the test and get the tag it is "FIS legal" In reality, they are made of a higher grade material than non-FIS suits. For example, off the shelf Spyder and Beyond-X suit pill like anything and they are made from Swiss Eschler fabric. The real deal WC, plombed, DH suit my son has isn't showing any signs of pilling yet and it was confirmed in conversation with the folks at SRD that it is a totally different fabric and that's why they are correspondingly more expensive.

 

However, unless you are planning on racing NorAm or Europa Cup there's no need to invest in one unless you are simply interested in a genuine article.

Yup!  definitely better quality stuff

post #8 of 26
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroGravity View Post


Sort of. In theory if it can pass the test and get the tag it is "FIS legal" In reality, they are made of a higher grade material than non-FIS suits. For example, off the shelf Spyder and Beyond-X suit pill like anything and they are made from Swiss Eschler fabric. The real deal WC, plombed, DH suit my son has isn't showing any signs of pilling yet and it was confirmed in conversation with the folks at SRD that it is a totally different fabric and that's why they are correspondingly more expensive.

However, unless you are planning on racing NorAm or Europa Cup there's no need to invest in one unless you are simply interested in a genuine article.

I agree that the WC suits are better, just look at the price difference, like twice the money for WC suit. I was assuming that we talking about off the shelf suits that anyone can buy at most shops, because most of the companies do not sell WC stuff.
post #9 of 26
Thread Starter 

Folks,

Thanks for all the info. 

 

I don't need an FIS suit.  Actually I don't need a Non FIS suit either.  Just trying to understand the difference.  I'm getting one anyways and want to make sure it's with eyes wide open.

 

Ken

post #10 of 26
Pee before you put the arms on. Just saying.
post #11 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by qcanoe View Post

Pee before you put the arms on. Just saying.

I have been worrying about this as I'm a coffee drinker :eek

post #12 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by L&AirC View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by qcanoe View Post

Pee before you put the arms on. Just saying.

I have been worrying about this as I'm a coffee drinker :eek

 

Yup. And when you do peel down the top half (possibly with help from an obliging friend or stranger, if, like me, you sometimes have trouble getting the damn thing off the first shoulder), make sure you're careful not to drag the cuffs through unpleasant stuff on the floor. I've made all the mistakes ... no only on the hill, but off the hill too. :rolleyes 

post #13 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by qcanoe View Post

Pee before you put the arms on. Just saying.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by L&AirC View Post
 

I have been worrying about this as I'm a coffee drinker :eek

 

you need to be a real man to be able to pee wearing a race suit.......:D
 
Another reason why you don't want it WC tight!  Actually some of my buddies have had longer/additional zips put in for that purpose!
 
Although the more recent Spyder suits seem to have a longer zipper than previously
post #14 of 26

Which one is faster. The WC GS suit or the WC DH suit (assuming both suits are from the same company).

 

The GS suit isn''t legal in DH does that mean that the GS suit is faster?

post #15 of 26
The DH suit is faster. GSsuts have thick padding which isn't allowed in DH.
Also DH suits should have better aero dynamics.
post #16 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Christer View Post
 

Which one is faster. The WC GS suit or the WC DH suit (assuming both suits are from the same company).

 

The GS suit isn''t legal in DH does that mean that the GS suit is faster?

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy4g63 View Post

The DH suit is faster. GSsuts have thick padding which isn't allowed in DH.
Also DH suits should have better aero dynamics.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christer View Post
 

Which one is faster. The WC GS suit or the WC DH suit (assuming both suits are from the same company).

 

The GS suit isn''t legal in DH does that mean that the GS suit is faster?

ummm, I may have missed something but I was not aware of a restriction on using a padded suit for DH, provided it is plumbed and the padding hasnt been used to form aerodynamic aids.  Itr is simply a cased of the non padded suit being faster

post #17 of 26

FIS legal makes very little difference, however the suits they label as world cup seem to be made slightly better in the small details, the panels line up nicer, the stitching is smoother. Otherwise they are very similar. Few companies make a suit other than childrens that won't pass the permiability test, Karbon, Spyder and Descent all make soley legal suits. The fabrics between WC suits and regular suits are different at this point, the good spyder suits tend to be dimpled, almost like a golf ball, and tend to resist plying slightly better.

 

As for why gs suits aren't legal in speed, it is because in speed, it is illegal to have any pads that alter the aerodynamics of the suit, so GS pads fall under that category. Same as hard stealths, and forearm guards in SG and DH

post #18 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by pitters View Post
As for why gs suits aren't legal in speed, it is because in speed, it is illegal to have any pads that alter the aerodynamics of the suit, so GS pads fall under that category. Same as hard stealths, and forearm guards in SG and DH

 

Interesting. I remember reading a year or two ago on Hans Olsson's blog how he likes to wear a GS suit on the first training run (where they'll have more than one). I assume he wasn't the only one to have that practice.

post #19 of 26
Verbiage:
Quote:
5. Racing suits

Competition suits and clothing worn underneath, such as undergarments, etc., must have a textile surface on the inside and the outside. The surfaces may not be plasticised or treated by any chemical means (gaseous, liquid or solid) and must have a minimum permeability of 30 litres per m2/sec. Seams may only exist in order to join the portions of the suit. Outer tucks and darts are not allowed. The suits must be equally porous in all parts, both from the outside in and from the inside out. Minimum air permeability is established whereby the unstretched fabric must show a medium air permeability of a minimum of 30 litres per m2/sec under 10 mm of water pressure.

Competitors are allowed to protect all parts of the body with so called protectors in all events:

- In Downhill, protectors may not be integrated into the competition suit itself.

- In all events these protectors must be worn underneath the plombed racing suit. (Exception forearm protection used in SG, GS and SL and shin protection used in SL) Protectors must fulfil the 30 litre permeability rule with the exception of the shoulder, scapular region, chest, arms and legs. The anatomical body shape may not be changed.
post #20 of 26

I've often figured the GS suit was designed by women to get back at men for their relative ease of relieving themselves in outdoor situations. What guy would make the zipper's end so high as to not allow easy access to the necessary apparatus? Sure make things more difficult (and obvious) at the race start when us old guys have to sneak behind a tree.............

post #21 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by pitters View Post
 

 

 

As for why gs suits aren't legal in speed, it is because in speed, it is illegal to have any pads that alter the aerodynamics of the suit, so GS pads fall under that category. Same as hard stealths, and forearm guards in SG and DH

 

 

I stand corrected  :)  

 

But I am sure that forearm guards are legal in GS

 

.... In all events these protectors must be worn underneath the plombed racing suit. (Exception forearm protection used in SG, GS and SL and shin protection used in SL) Protectors must fulfil the 30 litre permeability rule with the exception of the shoulder, scapular region, chest, arms and legs. The anatomical body shape may not be changed.

 

 

Oh, and the pads in the new Spyder USST suits are so minimal, you can hardly tell the difference!

post #22 of 26

Alot of guys will wear full padding in the training runs, Ive seen USST athletes wearing upper and lower arm hard pads in dh training, because dh gates hurt ... alot

post #23 of 26

that's because DH gates use wider and thicker poles! 

post #24 of 26

DH gates are wider and thicker than gates used in other events?

post #25 of 26
post #26 of 26

OK here we go!

 

First off you generally only need FIS approved and tested suits if you race at NorAm or above levels. In 30 years of being in the business I never heard of a suits being tested at junior levels.

 

Also like in skis there is "race stock" and then there is race stock. The suits used in Word Cup competition are all made from FIS approved fabrics and physically tested with a certified device by the FIS or their National Team programs and must have a minimum permeability of 30 litres per m2/sec. Once these suits pass they have a small plomb attached to the pant cuff.

 

There are just a handful of companies making race suits worldwide, For example the Descente Swiss and Spyder World Cup suits are made by a small Swiss Company from Eschler fabrics. France (Colmar), Austria (Schoffel), and Italy (Kappa) are made in Italy using Italian Plastotex materials. Finland and Slovenia (Halti) and Germany (Bogner) I believe are made in by a French firm using Eschler. Most all other suits use either Eshler, Plastotex or Windtex. Non-pilling suits are generally far less elastic and are not going to be FIS approved and are used in lower priced suits. In our experience Eschler simply makes the most elastic and fastest suits with Plastotex a close second.

 

All suits are made of a knitted material that is prone to pilling. Some companies like SRD (WC Series) Spyder (Performance) and BeyondX use a special printing process that uses more ink at higher pressure to create deeper colors and a more stable fabric less resistant to pilling. Stay away from Velcro!

 

There are also many suits that are not plombed but made from FIS approved materials that often will always pass the FIS test, especially if pre-worn and stretched. Even our so-called Non-FIS SRD suits often pass since they are made from the same materials. Here is where it gets interesting as in many cases its the very same fabric as World Cup suits use. What happens is that as the fabric is made sections are tested and the material closest to the FIS 30 standard gets set aside and used for team suits, the rest though still passing is not "as fast" and gets used in regular FIS production.

 

The whole idea to allow some air porosity is to prevent rubberized or plasticized suits from being used ( like in speed skiing ) where you will go faster on your butt in a fall then on your skis and to minimize friction burning.

 

The protection issue is becoming very complicated. FIS allows a by pass of the 30 standard in the areas of special protection ( shin and arm guards, back protectors etc. ) the use of padded base layer, stealth being required to meet the 30 standard "Under" the suit is tough to test and enforce. You may remember a few years ago Tina Maze and her special underwear was in controversy for being an illegal advantage!

 

The overall trend is towards DH style unpadded suits for all events with armor for SL and underpadding for GS/SG. Pad seams and pads are less aerodynamic and thus slower.

 

Hope that helps!

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